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MrRipper

Is there any reason to go with the IJN destroyers?

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Why would you recommend going for the shimakaze over say the gearing or khabavrovsk? I just got the shima but at first glance it looks rather inferior to the gearing. I feel like I made a bad decision going with IJN dds and am curious how I can make the best of the shima and whether or not it was a bad decision.

Edited by MrRipper

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9 minutes ago, MrRipper said:

Why would you recommend going for the shimakaze over say the gearing or khabavrovsk? I just got the shima but at first glance it looks rather inferior to the gearing. I feel like I made a bad decision going with IJN dds and am curious how I can make the best of the shima and whether or not it was a bad decision.

Kamikaze tree done.

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Let's say it like that, all it takes is one Torpedo salvo to strike home and you get a massive damage number, which can easily be twice of the average damage/battle on the server. However landing such a salvo requires a bit of luck, stupidity from your enemy, positioning, timing and target selection.

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If you find walls of torps fun, then yes there is a reason.

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20 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Let's say it like that, all it takes is one Torpedo salvo to strike home and you get a massive damage number, which can easily be twice of the average damage/battle on the server. However landing such a salvo requires a bit of luck, stupidity from your enemy, positioning, timing and target selection.

 

Yess... Though when the enemy has an average CV player you can still make sure your team has coffee with freshly baked cookies. 

 

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20 minutes ago, joris92 said:

Yess... Though when the enemy has an average CV player you can still make sure your team has coffee with freshly baked cookies.

I considered that under the points 'luck' and 'stupidity from your enemy'

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Well, they "used" to be more fun but now after T6 there is only T10.  Shima is still a good boat being fast and sneaky but it takes more effort to be good at her.

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Akizuki man. It is the bomb.

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IJN DDs aren't easy.

The detection levels for their torpedoes aren't that great and with the number of in game mechanics that assist in spotting the DDs or their torpedoes, that means torpedo detection ranges aren't even an issue half the time - as torpedoes can be spotted long before their detection specs even come into play. Along with knowing where the DDs are operating from and therefore where the torpedoes will come from, it is no wonder the Shims torpedo hit rate is only around 6%.

Definitely a negative as the torpedoes are its biggest damage source. However, SireneRacker is correct in that if you do hit the target, the torpedoes will do some nice damage. However, please remember that 6% hit rate will then be affected by the torpedo armour belt reduction on some targets as well.

The IJN DDs were the 'Torp' DDs a while back but the specs that really count (speed/detection/reload) don't really do them any favours now. All I can say is look at the way you think you would like to play DDs and then look at the specs of the ship lines available. Specs aren't everything, but they may help you choose the line you think will best suit your playstyle.

 

Remember, if it doesn't feel right, you can always change to another line - the beauty of a game that's free. Good luck. :Smile_honoring:

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Thanks for the replies everyone. Out of curiosity do US dds have a higher hit rate? I noticed the gearing happens to have more stealthy torps albeit less of them.

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1 hour ago, MrRipper said:

Why would you recommend going for the shimakaze over say the gearing or khabavrovsk? I just got the shima but at first glance it looks rather inferior to the gearing. I feel like I made a bad decision going with IJN dds and am curious how I can make the best of the shima and whether or not it was a bad decision.

I've been a DD main since closed Beta, tried to keep up and adapt to all the changes with IJN boats. I recently gave up trying to play the Shima in stealth mode and started playing her like a gunboat. I realize that most will disagree with this statement but it's working for me. Her reload isn't that bad at 4.5sec and with IFHE she hits hard. Here is the build I use and the stats for her and Gearing.

 

shima build.JPG

shimastats.JPG

gearingstats.JPG

Notice the maingun hit ratio on gearing is worse than shima but torp ratio is better. Gearings torps have a much better concealment factor.

Anyway Shima still viable in my book....as for Khab....shes a Cruiser not a DD ;)

 

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29 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Akizuki man. It is the bomb.

I hated the Akizuki.  Too damned slow.  Maybe it could work back when stealth firing was a thing.  But now, you just don't have the speed to be the speedy gunboat running all around everyone.  Now, it seems like you're forced to be just another smoke warrior, which I find so damned boring.

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I tried hard to like Akizuki but I just didn't like the death of a 1000 cuts.  

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I hated the Akizuki.  Too damned slow.  Maybe it could work back when stealth firing was a thing.  But now, you just don't have the speed to be the speedy gunboat running all around everyone.  Now, it seems like you're forced to be just another smoke warrior, which I find so damned boring.

She is a difficult beast, but is devastating in the right hands.

 

If you'd like to see it, I had an excellent game in Aki the other day which really showcases her strengths and weakness, and shows what a force to be reckoned with she can be.

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/5309

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1 hour ago, Doomlock said:

Akizuki man. It is the bomb.

This.  Akizuki is just nasty. 

51 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I hated the Akizuki.  Too damned slow.  Maybe it could work back when stealth firing was a thing.  But now, you just don't have the speed to be the speedy gunboat running all around everyone.  Now, it seems like you're forced to be just another smoke warrior, which I find so damned boring.

Her rate of fire actually makes her quite a nasty gunboat.  She has smoke, so she can smoke allied BB's or, yes, you can use it to cloak yourself when capping or raining shells on an enemy.  But, she also has torpedo reload booster at the same time.  She only has one set of torp tubes so she isn't a torp wall boat, but with TRB there are enough torps to make her a legitimate torp threat.  With a proper build she can challenge most other DD's out there, except probably Khab and one or two others. 

29 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

I tried hard to like Akizuki but I just didn't like the death of a 1000 cuts.  

I have IFHE on my Akizuki captain, so I can really pound other DD's and light cruisers.  Don't forget, either, that her AP is also very powerful for a DD.  If I catch a broadside cruiser, I can easily dole out 2k+ damage salvos.  Heck, I get nice damage on broadside BB's, too.  Add in the 3 sec reload, and the damage potential climbs quickly.

 

Akizuki can do several things very well, and is my favorite DD right now.  Just wicked fun!

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3 hours ago, MrRipper said:

I feel like I made a bad decision going with IJN dds and am curious how I can make the best of the shima and whether or not it was a bad decision.

Playstyle is going to be the only deciding factor in determining whether or not you made a poor decision choosing Shimakaze, and the entire IJN DD line. If you play a style where there are many gunbattles, finding the enemy and beating him down, then yes, you did choose incorrectly. Both Russian tier 10 DD's and the USN one are much better gunboats.

However, if you enjoy sneaking up on an unsuspecting target and torping him out of the game, you picked the right ship. Watch the CC vids and just go practice. Oh, and plan on losing money, even after you "GIT GUD".

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6 hours ago, Doomlock said:

Akizuki man. It is the bomb.

That blows up?

Kidding aside. Akizuki is fun even though I don't do well with her.

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IJN DDs post torp nerf have a bit of a learning curve.  I bought my Shima two weeks prior to the torp nerf.  I only had a taste of what she was back then.  Like most I played Shima all about the torps after the nerf and struggled.  I played the crapout of her trying to figure her out.  Eventually came to the conclusion any DD had to be able to deal with any enemy DD in order to survive and farm the larger enemy ships, and get that juicy cap XP.

IJN DDs are in a hard place right now.  New DD lines are all gun boat or hybrid oriented.  It doesnt mean the end of times though.  You play smart.  You focus on playing your strengths.  Kagero and Yugumo I can clear gun boats and hybrids out of cap once i have scouted enemy radar simply by reversing across the cap with friendly ships backing me up.  They shoot at me while I go forward not shooting back means I drop off while they are forced to smoke or leave cap.  They smoke up and you torp the smoke and repeat.  You literally zone enemy DDs out of areas when you play with support.

Shima is a tougher nut since she does not have a real detection advantage over most of her peers.  Shima can be used the same way, but I find actually gun fighting to work better.  Shima has a good speed advantage over most of her peers.  Using RPF you can predict DD fights for the most part.  Position yourself to be broadside on ready to kit with your guns on the side you intend to fight from.  On contact pop speed boost as you turn away.  As you kite zig zagging fire away with the rear and when you can the front guns.  Outside 7km you start to crapon Gearings.  Being angled neutralizes Z-52 AP allowing you to fight more on even DPM with Z-52 poor HE alpha.  The Russian DDs are best avoided, but if you cant AP often gives you a better shot at winning, especially since most run AFT builds making them really detectable which means you have a good chance at smoking up and shooting them.  It does not take many 4-5k AP volleys for them to get the idea there is better places to be.  Gearing is venerable to AP as well. 

It's hard to explain everything in a forum post as there is a lot of detail to cover.  My suggestion for any one having trouble or wanting to improve is to join a competitive clan.  These clans have some of the best players of each ship type and most are willing to go out of there way to teach new guys.  I know we do in our CUTIE clan.

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Kagero and Yugumo (especially) are two of the most fun boats I've played recently.  They are, IMHO a match for Benson and Fletcher in many ways.  I really like their 6 gun layout, with one turret forward and 2 rearward.  This, along with their solid HE performance and good gun velocity means when I run into a USN DD, I'm usually able to knock off a fair amount more health than they are from me as we both separate and pull back.  I have more guns on target more often, and can hit with more shells.  Their great concealment means you can outspot anyone, so can also generally land a solid first salvo on anyone you encounter.  I really only run away in fear from Soviet DDs or Gearings.

 

I'm still getting to grips with the Shimakaze.  I've only played 13 battles in her and find I'm wasting torp opportunities dumping full 15 torps at once.  I think I need to play her with the 10+5 method (drop two sets of torps, then wait a bit, then drop the next set.  This way your cooldown feels shorter because you always have torps coming up within a minute or so).

 

IJN torps are a bit trickier to hit with due to their detectability compared to the USN, but when they land, they HURT.

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On 9/17/2017 at 6:50 AM, MrRipper said:

Why would you recommend going for the shimakaze over say the gearing or khabavrovsk? I just got the shima but at first glance it looks rather inferior to the gearing. I feel like I made a bad decision going with IJN dds and am curious how I can make the best of the shima and whether or not it was a bad decision.

Unfortunately, the Shimakaze is currently the worst T10 DD.  The gearing and z52 are better torp boats, and everything is a better gun boat.   It has horrid mobility and basically no AA. 

But, its still a t10 DD.  It can murder anything not paying attention.  Just because its the worst in class doesn't make it unplayable. It will just be more difficult to do well in comparison to other T10 DDs.

 

The whole IJN DD line is inconsistent.  Some DDs are really good for their tier others not so much.  Which is a remnant of the botched IJN DD rework.  The reality of the situation is that T8 and T9  IJN DDs are better boats than the Shima.  So, I cant really recommend playing the Shima. 

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The Shimakaze isn't such a bad boat. It's really best at flanking attacks. Did a double strike on a Yamato and Montana bow camping together. Hilarious, absolutely hilarious.

Also torp souping smoked up areas using RPF, probably get 1/3 of my kills that way.

I like it almost as much as the old Minekaze, excerpt at Tier 10 people kinda know what's going on as far as the game goes. 

 

 

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I haven't played in a while but if you're new to DDs, I would suggest the USNs. They are a good balanced line.

The Russians are good but they're more geared towards bullying other DDs. They fully serve the purpose of a "Torpedo Boar Destroyer" but you do miss out on a lot of what makes a DD fun in this game.

IJNs start off as seal clubbers in the lower tiers. A lot of IJN captains end up getting pretty frustrated when they get past T5 because that's when all the other ships catch up to them... and overtake them.

 

Shimakaze is an always high risk - sometimes high reward ship. If you manage to do well with it there is no doubt there was some luck involved. Everything has to go right when you plan your approach and it is very unforgiving if you slip up ANYWHERE. Even the best players have more mediocre games than good. Not saying that it isn't fun but I personally think it was a mistake for me to start with IJN DD. Start with USN and build good DD chops and the skills are much more transferable to other classes. Torpedoes still work for everything else but once you've got that down, IJN DD is where you go to master them.

 

EDIT: As far as torp nerfs... they're always messing with the torpedoes. A new torpedo nerf every two months is just a fact of life you're going to have to deal with in an IJN DD. What makes them good torpedo boats is not their torpedoes. I even consider the Akizuki to be more of a torpedo boat than a gun boat. IJN DD is almost purely reliant on low raw concealment stats. What makes or breaks an IJN DD is its ability to control when it is spotted. Sneak around the planes, stay undetected, get behind an island, and damage 4 enemy ships in one salvo... then try to get away with a sliver of health left so you can try it one more time.

Edited by tooboku

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9 hours ago, tooboku said:

I haven't played in a while but if you're new to DDs, I would suggest the USNs. They are a good balanced line.

The Russians are good but they're more geared towards bullying other DDs. They fully serve the purpose of a "Torpedo Boar Destroyer" but you do miss out on a lot of what makes a DD fun in this game.

IJNs start off as seal clubbers in the lower tiers. A lot of IJN captains end up getting pretty frustrated when they get past T5 because that's when all the other ships catch up to them... and overtake them.

 

Shimakaze is an always high risk - sometimes high reward ship. If you manage to do well with it there is no doubt there was some luck involved. Everything has to go right when you plan your approach and it is very unforgiving if you slip up ANYWHERE. Even the best players have more mediocre games than good. Not saying that it isn't fun but I personally think it was a mistake for me to start with IJN DD. Start with USN and build good DD chops and the skills are much more transferable to other classes. Torpedoes still work for everything else but once you've got that down, IJN DD is where you go to master them.

 

EDIT: As far as torp nerfs... they're always messing with the torpedoes. A new torpedo nerf every two months is just a fact of life you're going to have to deal with in an IJN DD. What makes them good torpedo boats is not their torpedoes. I even consider the Akizuki to be more of a torpedo boat than a gun boat. IJN DD is almost purely reliant on low raw concealment stats. What makes or breaks an IJN DD is its ability to control when it is spotted. Sneak around the planes, stay undetected, get behind an island, and damage 4 enemy ships in one salvo... then try to get away with a sliver of health left so you can try it one more time.

 I certainly agree with you when you talk about high-risk and reward and luck does have a role. Things go south really quickly if you get caught out. 

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