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Xiiv

Having my HE shells break quite often, is there something I can do better?

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I'm currently playing the Farragut, but noticed this also in my nicholas.

 

A lot of my HE shells are breaking, or whatever the term is, on impact.  I aim to land them on the deck, close to the super structure depending on where the current fires are.  Is there something I need to do differently or is just part of the game?

 

Thanks

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It depends how thick the armor is in the section you are hitting. Those HE shells are small so they dont have much ability to pen armor. Thankfully any hits can start fires. Use the in game armor viewer and look at some of the ships you will likely be shooting at to get an idea where to land shells. The superstructure is usually a good bet. If you notice little damage happening even with pens, you might have saturated that section so switch to ap shells and try to overpen the superstructure.

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Most ships have an HE penetration value 1/6 of the size of the shells. The penetration value needs to be higher than the armour you are hitting to do damage. 

 

For a dd, the places you can hit are usually going to be constricted to superstructure only.

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All of the above.  In addition to what the others have said, you can consider trying IFHE.  It will reduce your fire chance, but will increase the penetration values of your HE shells.  

 

There's a mixed opinion on this, however.  Many will tell you that DD guns are so low-pen to begin with that even with IFHE, the penetration is unreliable.  If that's the case, then you're only hampering yourself by reducing your fire chance, and taking 4 captain points away from other, more valuable skills.

 

IFHE is set to receive a buff, however.  Guns of 139mm and below will only take a 1% hit to their fire chance, instead of 3%.  That could make it a far more attractive option for DDs.  (And the Atlanta.)  I say, give it a try and revert back if you don't like it.  

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what angle, how far, what speed, speed changing, angle changing, ship shooting m that I didn't see, so many things I can't imagine.

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Some ship have good deck protection (Atago / Takao for instance) so yeah your shells may break. Just aim for the superstructure, with your plundging shells it's easier 

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21 hours ago, Xiiv said:

I'm currently playing the Farragut, but noticed this also in my nicholas.

 

A lot of my HE shells are breaking, or whatever the term is, on impact.  I aim to land them on the deck, close to the super structure depending on where the current fires are.  Is there something I need to do differently or is just part of the game?

 

Thanks

 

Use AP whenever you see a glimpse of broadside, even on battleships. At 7-9km ranges you can easily get regular 2k AP salvos. IFHE is going to be revamped in the next patch IMO, so I wouldn't waste 4 points until I'm certain what the final version is going to be and anyway, losing 2% of your already meager fire chance is not good. And even with IFHE you'd still struggle with ships like Fuso or Gneisenau.

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On 9/17/2017 at 8:12 PM, geser98 said:

 

Use AP whenever you see a glimpse of broadside, even on battleships. At 7-9km ranges you can easily get regular 2k AP salvos. IFHE is going to be revamped in the next patch IMO, so I wouldn't waste 4 points until I'm certain what the final version is going to be and anyway, losing 2% of your already meager fire chance is not good. And even with IFHE you'd still struggle with ships like Fuso or Gneisenau.

Is this still a good at idea against BBs? And do I want to attempt this at whatever current dd i am playing's max range?  To pierce the weaker deck armor?

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On 9/19/2017 at 3:54 PM, Xiiv said:

Is this still a good at idea against BBs? And do I want to attempt this at whatever current dd i am playing's max range?  To pierce the weaker deck armor?

USN DD's AP is for use only on broadside cruisers, and then only when you're close enough to be hitting the side of the hull directly, not plunging fire.  So, in other words, under about 6km.  Don't bother with it in any other circumstance - some will say you can use it on BB's superstructure, but, honestly, you're far better off just HE spamming there for the fire chance (and BBs will panic when being HE spammed by a USN DD, while most won't when being AP spammed by same said DD).

Even with AP, your 5" guns won't generally penetrate BB deck armor, even the bow/stern armor, which makes AP against a broadside BB unwise. Certainly, you'll end up with a massive number of shatters and bounces doing so.  HE, on the other hand, while it often shatters, when it doesn't, it does reliably more damage than AP does on a BB, and you've got the fire chance (which is far, far more useful).

Get Demolition Expert. Then you're a monster firestarter (not quite the IJN CA one, but close) with about 7% per shell of a fire, but the ability to pump out 75 rounds per minute, which means you get about 5 fires per minute (if you hit everything), or 1 fire every 14 hits - when shooting at a BB, you can get 14 hits in about 4 salvos in 15 seconds.

German DD's AP is much more useful, as you can farm substantial superstructure damage on a BB or CA.  Russian DDs are similar.  And if you're firing an IJN DD's guns at all, either something has gone terribly wrong, or your opponent is an idiot.

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On 9/19/2017 at 6:54 PM, Xiiv said:

Is this still a good at idea against BBs? And do I want to attempt this at whatever current dd i am playing's max range?  To pierce the weaker deck armor?

Not exactly.

 

The 5”/38 on USN DDs (starting with the Farragut and continuing through the rest of the line) and on the Atlanta is a great, great gun, but it takes finesse and practice.

 

HE will be your main round. The shells breaking is common and somewhat unavoidable, but you overcome it with a huge volume of fire, and good shot placement. Hold down the left mouse button and walk your stream of shells into soft spots. It’s like spraying things with a garden hose, with the shells hanging in the air a long time.

 

Any part of most DDs is a good target. Russian DDs tend to be a bit more heavily armored, and as you get into higher tiers all DDs gain more armor, but generally most of your shells will hit effectively.

 

With cruisers, it really depends on their tier, nation, and where you hit. Use the in game armor viewer. A tier 5 USN Omaha-class is soft all-over, as are most RN CLs. You might get a break if you hit right on the citadel or hit a thick part of a gun mount or something, but almost all your hits will be good ones. From tier 6 and up cruisers gain armor, but still the bow, stern, superstructure (not the conning tower) are usually good targets. 

 

Against BBs, the only reliable target is the superstructure behind the conning tower (again, not the conning tower). You can try for the decks, but that she really only be after you’ve started a fire in the superstructure and you are trying to start fires in other locations.

 

((The “conning tower” is the tower towards the front of the ship which has the bridge in it, and it usually has some armor. On BBs it usually has a lot of armor, but on most other ships it is enough to protected against 5” HE, but not against AP. You can often get good hits there since the armor is sometimes in narrow bands or only on the very front or very top, but it’s not reliable. The long part of the superstructure behind it, where the smoke stacks are, is reliable on almost all ships. The only exceptions are a rare handful of BBs which have a long deck of secondaries which is armored, but even then if you hit above the secondaries you are good.))

 

 

 

 

AP-usage is what separates the pros. 

 

Against broadside cruisers closer than 7km, use AP and aim for the citadel, and keep pumping rounds into them. It takes until around tier 9 before you can’t count on getting citadels. Even if you don’t get citadels, the DPM on AP against a broadside CA or CL is worthwhile. If you hit a part that bounces, shift your aim slightly and keep adding left mouse button.

 

Against anything else, AP is situational. It’s usually okay (not great) against DDs, but it can bounce if they are angled and HE is generally better since it breaks more modules.

 

Against any target farther than 7km, you will want to fire HE first until you get a fire or two started. This is because your shells arc a lot at those (slightly) longer ranges and you are just not likely to hit precisely, so you want to get the damage over time from fire started before you try for precision shooting.

 

Any type of angle will bounce your AP, on any ship. You will always see some bounces as shells scatter into turrets or gun-shields that are angled badly. If most of your rounds are going into a soft, slat spot, just keep applying more left mouse button.

 

Your AP will almost never penetrate BB belt armor or conning towers, any part of a BB turret, or the turret fronts or barbettes (the pillar for the turrets) on most ships. You can usually penetrate superstructures, bows, sterns, and often upper belts and secondary gun decks, but it’s normal to see a mix of pens, bounces, and overpens.

 

Once you have 2 or more fires started, it is often a good idea to switch to AP, but only if you can hit vulnerable parts of the ship at angles that won’t bounce, and more often at close range (inside 7km) than farther out. If it’s an Atlanta, Omaha, or RN CL, then sure, just shoot AP at it as long as it’s not angled.

 

Practice against bots, or on an operation where you know bots will move on a certain path (like in Aegis) is great for practicing where to hit.

 

 

 

 

Mostly, getting good with the 5”/38 is an art, not a science. You should be switching ammo (though when uncertain, HE is best), but you need to practice it and get a sense of what works and when. Most DD players never use anything but HE, but when AP works, it is vastly higher damage per minute, so you should be looking for situations to make it work. AP will make any cruiser who thinks it’s a good idea to get close and try to torp you regret his life choices (since they tend to show a flat citadel when they aim torps).

 

Also, add more left mouse button. In the Army, I teach soldiers to shoot machineguns, and the most common mistake I see is that soldiers have good aim and good fundamentals, but they only fire a 2 round burst, and then try to adjust because they missed the target. Rapid fire is not about what your shot did, it’s about what your shots do. Machineguns scatter a little, and they hit a beaten zone, and to make them work reliably you need to to fire enough rounds that they scatter throughout that whole beaten zone. The USN 5”/38 in this game fires like a machinegun. You might fire one shot just to check your lead and range, but mostly you need to hold down the left mouse button and not worry about shots breaking unless you see them all breaking. They scatter a little randomly, and it’s very possible to aim well yet randomly get 1-2 scatter badly, so you need to trust your aim and keep the trigger depressed for a nice long burst. You shift your aim if you see a string of breaks or if you start missing, but you should mostly keep the left mouse button pressed once you start firing.

 

And for extra fun, while holding the left mouse button and getting good hits, hold down the right mouse button to pop you out of binocular mode so you can keep adding left mouse button while beating torpedoes and avoiding islands.

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On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 7:57 PM, Xiiv said:

A lot of my HE shells are breaking

What (where) are you shooting? If you are shooting at something you can pen (superstructure) fire AP, else aim for more tender parts.

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