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AirshipCanon

ATTN: You cannot see out of smoke.

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Other ships are spotting, or Radar/Hydro is being used if a ship is targeting while in smoke.

Stop saying "You shouldn't be able to see out of smoke", because news flash: you can't already. That's not a change.

Yes, Offensively-used Smoke is bad. This is why the Smoke-firing change is going through.

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Are you saying see out of, or see into? Btw, offensive smoke firing isn't bad, it's....well...offensive.

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23 minutes ago, AirshipCanon said:

Other ships are spotting, or Radar/Hydro is being used if a ship is targeting while in smoke.

Stop saying "You shouldn't be able to see out of smoke", because news flash: you can't already. That's not a change.

Yes, Offensively-used Smoke is bad. This is why the Smoke-firing change is going through.

The smoke firing change is stupid.  Just force players to spot their own targets and the problem is solved so much easier.

And here's another news flash.  If someone's spotting for you (currently), you CAN see out of smoke.  But I don't care how many people are spotting for you, that still shouldn't magically give you the ability to see through smoke.  At best, all it should do is put the spotted enemy ships on the minimap, and nothing more.

Edited by Crucis
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no one should see a ship outside of the smoke unless you use radar or hydro, people spotting for you is a stupid mechanic.

 

 Also, WG needs to fix the concealment of some ships, there's BBs with better concealment than cruisers on the same tier, wth?

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 You can see out of smoke without others spotting for you: radar, hydro, proximity, plane.

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1 minute ago, Pata1985 said:

people spotting for you is a stupid mechanic.

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

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6 minutes ago, Aduial said:

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

Gotta shoot a +1 at that.

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8 minutes ago, Aduial said:

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

Why would the DDs be happy? They can't sit in smoke and spam unless someone's spotting for them. And yes, as a BB and CA main, doing my own spotting would be terrible. Also, CVs don't need another nerf.

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15 minutes ago, Aduial said:

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

Maybe it'd get those BB's and CA's to move up if they had to spot for themselves.

 

And, come to think of it, perhaps allowing other ships to spot for you, particularly DD's, is also a factor that encourages camping and passive play.  If you had to self spot your own targets, you'd have two choices.  Go forward and look for targets, or hang back and wait for the enemy to come into your spotting range. Of course, friendly DD's and planes could tell you where the enemy is well enough to put the enemy ships on the minimap, but not give you the necessary info to target those enemies.

Overall, I think that this would be a great change for the better.

 

Edited by Crucis

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14 minutes ago, m373x said:

 You can see out of smoke without others spotting for you: radar, hydro, proximity, plane.

I don't think that planes should be able to spot for you.  At best, their spotting should work the same as spotting from other ships should work.  That is, putting the enemies they spot onto the minimap.

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I don't think that planes should be able to spot for you.  At best, their spotting should work the same as spotting from other ships should work.  That is, putting the enemies they spot onto the minimap.

 

 I don't think the minimap rendering only is a good idea. Other ship classes should be able to spot for you as of current. 

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Without forward spotters, where would the real military be? Smoke? Pffft. You can fire deadly artillery salvos from a hiddin position with great accuracy because of a foreward observer telling you how to correct your aim.

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51 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The smoke firing change is stupid.  Just force players to spot their own targets and the problem is solved so much easier.

And here's another news flash.  If someone's spotting for you (currently), you CAN see out of smoke.  But I don't care how many people are spotting for you, that still shouldn't magically give you the ability to see through smoke.  At best, all it should do is put the spotted enemy ships on the minimap, and nothing more.

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1 hour ago, Aduial said:

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

I'd love it, I'd be able to actually go do something instead of baby-sitting BBabies.

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1 hour ago, Aduial said:

Really? Because according to that logic, DDs would no longer be able to spot for the bigger ships. DD mains would be fine with that, but I'd bet that the BB and CA mains won't be too happy about it. 

 

 And why didn't you quoted me entirely ? I am talking that ships that are OUTSIDE the frickin smoke can spot for ships who are inside, that is stupid, if someone is in a smoke he shouldn't be able to look outside of it by the means of other ships, only yours and that's it, thats why I mentioned radar and hydro, your ships plane also is fair to use, but not by the help of others.

 

 Smoke should be a defensive skill entirely, not to counter.

Edited by Pata1985

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The current spotting mechanic is fine as it rewards teamwork. The upcoming smoke changes are a good idea also. Quit complaining about one of the few really solid aspects of the game.

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having dd firing in smoke is better than having invisible dd keep torpedoing undetected..damn who ever do not think enough ahead.blasphemy 

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2 hours ago, Pata1985 said:

 

 And why didn't you quoted me entirely ? I am talking that ships that are OUTSIDE the frickin smoke can spot for ships who are inside, that is stupid, if someone is in a smoke he shouldn't be able to look outside of it by the means of other ships, only yours and that's it, thats why I mentioned radar and hydro, your ships plane also is fair to use, but not by the help of others.

 

 Smoke should be a defensive skill entirely, not to counter.

Yeah they should be able to fire from smoke. There is always so much complaining about DD players not doing this or that yet every time they turn around they get one tool after another taken away. Players use the DD's unwillingness to do something as an excuse for their own ultra-passive game play.

 

Smoking up and spamming shells at some guy trying to take your base cap or a domination cap is defensive. It just so happens it's offensive to...so they can win an objective. Makes too much sense right? I know. All these things do is give DD players a legitimate reason to be more selfish and not waste smoke at all by using it for someone else's benefit other than their own. 

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

Overall, I think that this would be a great change for the better.

Up until you will be matched against even 1 destroyer which you cannot outspot, use team to find, cant outrun and end up eating torp after torp after torp

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

I don't think that planes should be able to spot for you.  At best, their spotting should work the same as spotting from other ships should work.  That is, putting the enemies they spot onto the minimap.

You know how many players that use a spotter/ catapult fighter this would piss off? CV would love this to since they'd have to hover their planes over you constantly just to be able to spot your torps and not you (except on the mini map right):Smile_teethhappy: 

4 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

Up until you will be matched against even 1 destroyer which you cannot outspot, use team to find, cant outrun and end up eating torp after torp after torp

+1 Never again would 1 random spotter plane totally shut down a torp attack from concealment.  You can see them on your mini map...stalking you....there yet not there...waiting for your fighter to go on cool down...:Smile_popcorn::Smile_hiding:

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I don't mind the smoke change at all, though it will impact my Fiji and Neptune play. Maybe people will be less dependent on it and we'll actually be able to see something besides wall to wall fogbanks during the first 5 minutes of a battle.

No sh*t, many times I've gone as long as 5-6 minutes into a battle before I could shoot at anything due to the insane smoke hiding everything.

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11 hours ago, Aduial said:

DD mains would be fine with that...

 

Would they though? Not only would better DD players lose part of their ability to influence a match through better spotting, but a stealthy cruiser could easily deny them a cap.

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The current system is fine. I think it distills neatly, for a video game, the various spring technologies that existed in WW2.  The Soviets (for example) had a very effective acoustic targeting system they used against the Germans. 

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On 16/09/2017 at 6:03 PM, AJTP89 said:

Why would the DDs be happy? They can't sit in smoke and spam unless someone's spotting for them. And yes, as a BB and CA main, doing my own spotting would be terrible. Also, CVs don't need another nerf.

Perhaps you don't realize this because you only have 7 games in DDs, but sitting in smoke is not particularly effective, nor is it a very big part of DD gameplay. So yeah, I don't think most DD players (or at least the ones that know what they're doing) would mind that much. 

On 16/09/2017 at 6:04 PM, Crucis said:

Maybe it'd get those BB's and CA's to move up if they had to spot for themselves.

 

And, come to think of it, perhaps allowing other ships to spot for you, particularly DD's, is also a factor that encourages camping and passive play.  If you had to self spot your own targets, you'd have two choices.  Go forward and look for targets, or hang back and wait for the enemy to come into your spotting range. Of course, friendly DD's and planes could tell you where the enemy is well enough to put the enemy ships on the minimap, but not give you the necessary info to target those enemies.

Overall, I think that this would be a great change for the better.

 

Hmm, you do have a point there. I feel like WG should at least test this idea then, maybe on the supertest server. I mean, I wouldn't really be against it since I'm not really one to sit far away from action, but I'm sure that all those people that camp at the back of the map would be. 

22 hours ago, Pata1985 said:

 

 And why didn't you quoted me entirely ? I am talking that ships that are OUTSIDE the frickin smoke can spot for ships who are inside, that is stupid, if someone is in a smoke he shouldn't be able to look outside of it by the means of other ships, only yours and that's it, thats why I mentioned radar and hydro, your ships plane also is fair to use, but not by the help of others.

 

 Smoke should be a defensive skill entirely, not to counter.

I didn't need to quote you entirely. Relying on someone spotting for you while in smoke involves the same mechanic as a DD spotting an enemy DD for you while you in your battleship are 15km away. You can't change one without changing the other. 

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