CaptGodzillaPig

Toxic chat by tier.. Observation.

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For a very long time I played at the T10 level.  At the, what I suppose could be called the "elite level", there is a bit of toxicity that happens from time to time.  This usually comes from a "certain group", that is highly competitive, and given that at the highest level of play, I guess it would be considered a given that Highly competitive people would have some frustration with more casual players.  Is that an excuse for the behavior?  No.  Would a level of understanding that casual players play at T10 be warranted?  One would think.  But overall I get it and that is, IMHO, excusable.  Outside of that data point flyer, most folks have fun and can laugh off a good beat down, or in my case usually, a sneaky Shima torp wall that eats my GK alive.  On the flip if I happen to catch a DD close and eat him with seconds, I get a GG back.  If I bang heads with another BB and we duke it out,  a "good fight" comment usually follows without much heartache from the loser and respect, not gloating, from the winner. 

My point is actually one that focuses on the lower tier play.

As I mentioned, I have participated in a lot of T10 games.  Recently I embarked on a new mission to run the KM DD Line.  I started my quest at T5, because I could for one, and simply because I hate the torp soup at the very low tiers where people run around like ants being pissed on and just firing torps wherever and whenever.  Usually doing more damage to their team than the other. 

Now on to my observation.   Playing Maas at T7, I have noticed that in games where I am primarily matched with other T7/8/9 ships, the chat is generally pleasant.  Good luck to all to start and general congrats all around at the end regardless of the outcome.  In other words,  pretty good sportsmanship and recognition of good play.  When my MM drops me in with T5/6/7,  I notice a lot more hate.  Generally from the 5 crowd.  This is what I find concerning.

How many new players that are getting into the game are getting turned off by these guys that run around the T4/5/6 range, that think they know it all, and just flame every player on their team, the other team, and kid you not, sometimes the last team they were on?

Here is a last game example.  I ran to the cap on my side, with a cruiser back up.  Now this guy was all in on helping me so that was cool.  We got the cap,  I got jumped by an enemy DD, but I held him "lit" and my cruiser buddy smacked him down.  Now that is about textbook perfect.  We capped and both left without having taken any significant damage.  We make our way across the map to B, where the bulk of the team is hiding behind an island, and along the way all we get is hate chat from 2 guys about "camping", "not helping", etc.. etc. etc.  We all have heard it.  So we get to B, take an aggressive point.  Push out the reds and take that cap.  My cruiser buddy is a beast on my 6 and with him I can impose my will..and without him I know I can't.  So I am chatting him up giving him some props, and some other guy jumps in trashing my cruiser back up for being an idiot.  I don't even remember what the reasoning behind it was, but the guy was actually dead and just railing.    So on we go to C.  Now the bulk of the fleet is still at B and there is some fighting there, but we ran to get that last cap and leave them to it.   In the mean time, a DD snuck into A and started to take it back.  Now all of a sudden me and my CA buddy are butt hats for leaving A alone.  I mean seriously we are running all over the map, taking caps, killing ships, and whatever we did was "wrong"...all based on the court of either dead people, or people not doing much. 

So,  sorry for the long winded example, but IMHO there is a toxic wall around the T5/6 mark that may be putting people off from playing further.  Beyond that seems to be a much more pleasant place. 

Anyone else have thoughts here?


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28 minutes ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

Playing Maas at T7

I had forgotten you were currently grinding up the German DD line; but not derailing your post, my experience is a little different from yours. I find almost the same levels of toxicity at pretty much all tiers, with the exception of tier 5. I believe, and I have no stats to prove this and it is just my opinion, that the MM change at this tier, and it's marked difference from the MM at tier 4, causes some increased level of frustration at this level, which continues until you start getting decent MM at tier 7.

I think we are noticing the same thing, just from different viewpoints. Unfortunately I also think the only real world solution is to expand the player numbers until across the boards +1 matchmaking can be implemented. Whether or not it ever will, and the reasons behind that decision, are for an entirely different post.


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Best idea is screen shot the chat and start sending support tickets when ever you get a bad player on since often times such players use profanity and that alone is enough to get ban hammers swinging.

In my experience and rather ironic as well is that people that love using profanity often are less intelligent so turning them to the Wargaming support team kills 2 birds with 1 stone. You get rid of toxic players and the low intelligence players.

 

And yes the moderators do pass out bans if they catch any player using profanity much less flaming a player in chat.


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I don't know that I've played enough Random matches to make a sweeping observation, but I am at that T5 level.  I really haven't noticed chat being toxic as much has the forums seem to imply.  Perhaps one in twenty matches where I note harsh comments.  Most of the time I'm up-tiered and much of the angst - although infrequent - does come from other T5 angry at MM rather than other players.  Inter-player squabbles often seem to come from players that know each other, at least that is my impression.  Perhaps my observation is different depending the time of day, or if it's the weekend.  In any case I'm pleased that the upper tiers don't appear more toxic to some players.


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Just now, surratus said:

I don't know that I've played enough Random matches to make a sweeping observation, but I am at that T5 level.  I really haven't noticed chat being toxic as much has the forums seem to imply.  Perhaps one in twenty matches where I note harsh comments.  Most of the time I'm up-tiered and much of the angst - although infrequent - does come from other T5 angry at MM rather than other players.  Inter-player squabbles often seem to come from players that know each other, at least that is my impression.  Perhaps my observation is different depending the time of day, or if it's the weekend.  In any case I'm pleased that the upper tiers don't appear more toxic to some players.

Play on weekends or when all 4 main US time zones are off school for the day. The language kids use these days is shameful to say the least and becomes that way when they are off school.


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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

I had forgotten you were currently grinding up the German DD line; but not derailing your post, my experience is a little different from yours. I find almost the same levels of toxicity at pretty much all tiers, with the exception of tier 5. I believe, and I have no stats to prove this and it is just my opinion, that the MM change at this tier, and it's marked difference from the MM at tier 4, causes some increased level of frustration at this level, which continues until you start getting decent MM at tier 7.

I think we are noticing the same thing, just from different viewpoints. Unfortunately I also think the only real world solution is to expand the player numbers until across the boards +1 matchmaking can be implemented. Whether or not it ever will, and the reasons behind that decision, are for an entirely different post.

I totally get the frustration at T5.  I believe we have had this talk recently.  Frustration with MM and chat toxicity seems to be slightly different things though.  But I guess one could carry to the other.  Don't get me wrong, there is toxic at ever level, just for different reasons.  High tier toxic chat seems to revolve around the unicum type players expressing distaste for more casual players.  I get that.  I leave that there, but I get it.  Lower level just seems like random toxic hate, a lot of times from people that just seem to know enough to be dangerous.  So to speak.  I laterally had a guy tell me I was a "crap" DD that didn't know anything about BB play and I should go try a BB and see what he was talking about.  lol.  I think at least half of my 4k games are in BB's.  And a lot of those at higher end tiers.   I may not be a unicum player, but I think I know a little about how to drive a BB.  Even if I drive it wrong, I still know what is what. 


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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Play on weekends or when all 4 main US time zones are off school for the day. The language kids use these days is shameful to say the least and becomes that way when they are off school.

Yeah that is both hilarious and appalling.  Every Saturday my mother's virtue is called out in almost every game. lol. 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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Ive never paid much attention to what tier has the worst toxic chat but I can see even Experienced players a tad angry about having to face ships 2 tiers higher as often as we do

Am not a toxic player but definitely can see this as major issue of late,not fair not fun and low rewards is what you can count on!!

I report over the top toxic chat and move on


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Just now, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Ive never paid much attention to what tier has the worst toxic chat but I can see even Experienced players a tad angry about having to face ships 2 tiers higher as often as we do

Am not a toxic player but definitely can see this as major issue of late,not fair not fun and low rewards is what you can count on!!

I report over the top toxic chat and move on

Report all of it lol eventually we can get the troublemakers permanent banned.


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Tier 5 is where most people quit, but it's not because of player toxicity.

 

The reason people get frustrated, fed up, and quit in tier 5 is because they're constantly fed to much more powerful tier 7 ships 80% of the time. Which makes the tier very tiresome and sucks the fun out of the game very, very rapidly.

 

What you're witnessing is a symptom.


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2 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

Tier 5 is where most people quit, but it's not because of player toxicity.

 

The reason people get frustrated, fed up, and quit in tier 5 is because they're constantly fed to much more powerful tier 7 ships 80% of the time. Which makes the tier very tiresome and sucks the fun out of the game very, very rapidly.

 

What you're witnessing is a symptom.

We know why you reverted back at T5.  You made that pretty clear in another topic.  You just don't have the fortitude to push past. I believe that your reason was that "It made your brain hurt to try to play against the higher levels: That is fine.  But there is a difference between having a personality that shies from adversity and people being turned off by toxic play.  Some people like a challenge.  Some people run from it.  Some people just won't deal with idiots.

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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6 minutes ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

We know why you reverted back at T5.  You made that pretty clear in another topic.  You just don't have the fortitude to push past. I believe that your reason was that "It made your brain hurt to try to play against the higher levels: That is fine.  But there is a difference between having a personality that shies from adversity and people being turned off by toxic play.  Some people like a challenge.  Some people run from it.  Some people just won't deal with idiots.

 

Put the passive aggressive insults down and read what I posted.

 

I am not shying away from adversity and I do not "lack fortitude". Belittling me to boost your own ego does nothing to acknowledge the facts I presented, which are not based on my personal feelings or annoyances with the current state of the game.

 

9 out of 10 people I invited to play this game quit due to tier 5 matchmaking and frustration with being fed to higher tier ships constantly in their stock cruisers and battleships. The 10th quit because the game just wasn't his speed. This is not feeling. This is not emotion. This is fact. You can insult facts all you want but it doesn't make them any less factual.

 

EDIT: Hell even you whine about tier 5 matchmaking with your irrational hatred of Scharnhorst due to your encounters with it in Texas.

Edited by AraAragami

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1 minute ago, AraAragami said:

 

Put the passive aggressive insults down and read what I posted.

 

I am not shying away from adversity and I do not "lack fortitude". Belittling me to boost your own ego does nothing to acknowledge the facts I presented, which are not based on my personal feelings or annoyances with the current state of the game.

My post wasn't passive.   I (we) are well aware of your feelings about T5 MM.  I think most of us have gotten over it like, oh, years ago when the MM changed.  If you haven't adapted to this yet, and this certainly isn't a new thing, then you most likely never will.  There will never be a "perfect" MM system that makes everyone happy.  Learn to play with the system that is in place, and has been in place for a very long time, or don't.  Or at the very least do what you are doing to make you happy, as it seems to be a good compromise for you, but don't act like some big travesty is being committed because the current MM system has been in play for a very long time. 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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Too much text.

But.
Toxic behaviour in game seems to come in waves, but is not consistent. This week has been remarkably good (few death threats//) The causes of toxicity are many, from bringing a ship another player doesn't want in their team, to seasonal school holidays, tax return deadlines and who knows what else. Attitudes by some who respond to your </rant> who say "that's your problem", are part of the problem, for sure. Toxic chat, and related abusive behaviour, are conducted by a minority, but a very !#&VOCAL!&# minority :Smile_teethhappy:

It is normal to be affected, those who are unaffected are the abnormal ones, so take heart from that. I also think it is a good thing to bring the discussion out into the open, bullies like tyrants thrive on the silence of the majority, break that silence and - wasn't there a Star Trek episode on this topic?


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Just now, nuttybiscuit said:

Too much text.

 

Yeah,  that might have required about 20 seconds to read.  Sorry. 


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4 minutes ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

My post wasn't passive.   I (we) are well aware of your feelings about T5 MM.  I think most of us have gotten over it like, oh, years ago when the MM changed.  If you haven't adapted to this yet, and this certainly isn't a new thing, then you most likely never will.  There will never be a "perfect" MM system that makes everyone happy.  Learn to play with the system that is in place, and has been in place for a very long time, or don't.  Or at the very least do what you are doing to make you happy, as it seems to be a good compromise for you, but don't act like some big travesty is being committed because the current MM system has been in play for a very long time. 

 

Don't act like you're superior. You're hardly blameless in complaining about tier 5 matchmaking.

 

Or should I bring up Scharnhorst again?


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Just now, AraAragami said:

 

Don't act like you're superior. You're hardly blameless in complaining about tier 5 matchmaking.

 

Or should I bring up Scharnhorst again?

That isn't a MM deal.  I loved the T7 nag vs the T5 Tex match.  Sharn and genny were a class of ship that blew up the play at that level.  Different topics. 


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Just now, CaptGodzillaPig said:

That isn't a MM deal.  I loved the T7 nag vs the T5 Tex match.  Sharn and genny were a class of ship that blew up the play at that level.  Different topics. 

 

Oh but it's absolutely relevant.


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Just now, aAkula said:

I'm toxic at any tier.

lol. 


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Just now, AraAragami said:

 

Oh but it's absolutely relevant.

Relevant, yes.  Same topic.  No. 


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Its always the guy that dies in the first few minutes of the game that blames everyone when he got focused fired or showed broadside in a cruiser early.


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Not sure I agree with that Arraarragami about why people start quitting at Tier 5.  Tier 5 is where the "grind" really takes over.  From Tier 1 to Tier 5, advancement is fairly fast and enjoyable, however at about Tier 5, it increasingly becomes a long and difficult task.  It's not the MM that does it, it's the grind. 

Now I understand why it's designed that way because it is at this point where having a Premium Account really starts to make a BIG difference and hence, it's a motivation to start buying premium time, premium cammos and premium signal flags that can rack up the experience and silver at a faster rate.  It's how WG makes money.  

But back to the original post question.  I haven't reached tier X, mostly because I play all of the lines and all of my ships, but I do have T8 ships which end up in T10 matches.  My impression is that toxicity happens everywhere though the reason for it tends to vary.  At lower tiers, it seems that it's just players whose ships are dead and they are not happy with that telling all the other players what kinds of losers, potatoes, morons etc ... etc ... .  I'm sure they'd complain about other things but a lot of them are newer to the game so they haven't quite figured out what to complain about. 

When you reach the mid tiers, the toxic talk shifts more towards people being frustrated that other players aren't playing the game the way they think it should be being played. At this point people start to get frustrated with players who are sitting back and sniping or lemming trains piling up in front of the cap because they think there is a dd there and just a general lack of aggressiveness.  More and more often at these tiers, more of the complainers have valid points, but there are still a lot of people who are just complaining because they are in general not happy that their ship has been sunk. 

When you start reaching the higher tiers you start seeing more detailed criticism and people start paying more attention to smaller details.  You start hearing complaints about the ships other people are driving if they think it's too weak, they begin pointing out "fail divisions" which, for those of you who don't know what that is, is when a higher tier ship divisions with a lower tier ship and drags that lower tiered vessel into a match facing higher tiered ships than the lower tier ship would ordinarily see during a battle.  You start to see, on rare occasions, people who rage quit, sometimes really early in the battle and you have others that are so concerned with their win rate that they threaten to rage quit if the team doesn't do what they want the team to do. 

All of it is understandable ... well mostly, very little of it is what should be happening.  I mean attempting to help a player(s) become better is a useful thing or pointing out a danger the team hasn't yet reacted to.  But telling people they are potatoes or that they should uninstall the game or that their team is worthless and just leaving it at that is ... unproductive.  

Unfortunately I think it's just human nature where some people just don't handle things well or want the other players to "feel their pain".  More knowledgeable players will tend to go after more specific issues, lower tier players tend to go with blanket criticisms that are more in the venting their unhappiness, but however it's done it can still be toxic and should be avoided whenever possible.    

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel

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2 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

Not sure I agree with that Arraarragami about why people start quitting at Tier 5.  Tier 5 is where the "grind" really takes over.  From Tier 1 to Tier 5, advancement is fairly fast and enjoyable, however at about Tier 5, it increasingly becomes a long and difficult task.  It's not the MM that does it, it's the grind. 

Now I understand why it's designed that way because it is at this point where having a Premium Account really starts to make a BIG difference and hence, it's a motivation to start buying premium time, premium cammos and premium signal flags that can rack up the experience and silver at a faster rate.  It's how WG makes money.  

But back to the original post question.  I haven't reached tier X, mostly because I play all of the lines and all of my ships, but I do have T8 ships which end up in T10 matches.  My impression is that toxicity happens everywhere though the reason for it tends to vary.  At lower tiers, it seems that it's just players whose ships are dead and they are not happy with that telling all the other players what kinds of losers, potatoes, morons etc ... etc ... .  I'm sure they'd complain about other things but a lot of them are newer to the game so they haven't quite figured out what to complain about. 

When you reach the mid tiers, the toxic talk shifts more towards people being frustrated that other players aren't playing the game the way they think it should be being played. At this point people start to get frustrated with players who are sitting back and sniping or lemming trains piling up in front of the cap because they think there is a dd there and just a general lack of aggressiveness.  More and more often at these tiers, more of the complainers have valid points, but there are still a lot of people who are just complaining because they are in general not happy that their ship has been sunk. 

When you start reaching the higher tiers you start seeing more detailed criticism and people start paying more attention to smaller details.  You start hearing complaints about the ships other people are driving if they think it's too weak, they begin pointing out "fail divisions" which, for those of you who don't know what that is, is when a higher tier ship divisions with a lower tier ship and drags that lower tiered vessel into a match facing higher tiered ships than the lower tier ship would ordinarily see during a battle.  You start to see, on rare occasions, people who rage quit, sometimes really early in the battle and you have others that are so concerned with their win rate that they threaten to rage quit if the team doesn't do what they want the team to do. 

All of it is understandable ... well mostly, very little of it is what should be happening.  I mean attempting to help a player(s) become better is a useful thing or pointing out a danger the team hasn't yet reacted to.  But telling people they are potatoes or that they should uninstall the game or that their team is worthless and just leaving it at that is ... unproductive.  

Unfortunately I think it's just human nature where some people just don't handle things well or want the other players to "feel their pain".  More knowledgeable players will tend to go after more specific issues, lower tier players tend to go with blanket criticisms that are more in the venting their unhappiness, but however it's done it can still be toxic and should be avoided whenever possible.    

This guy gets it.   Oregon Steel?  Where you at man?  I am in St Helens. 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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