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stickeynote

Can we get guns to aim at what we actually want?

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Just a suggestion but can we please have our guns aim at the range we are looking instead of what we are actually looking at.

I know it has been an annoyance to me when shooting at a ship that blinks out behind an island to suddenly have my shells hit the island instead of the ship.

 

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This has long been a complaint and I agree it's infuriating to have a ship blink out and therefore all the shells fall short because the aim resets.

Likewise.. if you are in a ship that can fire at a target over an island and it blinks out just before you fire, all your shells will now go into the island rather than over if you had a target lock.  IN fact your maximum range is slightly different depending on whether you have a target lock or not..  if you have a target lock at max range, you can actually shoot slightly further than without a target lock.

I doubt it's on the fix list though because it's been an issue since closed beta.

Same as the issue where your visibilit goes upto your maximum shooting range when you fire, which is different depending on whether you have a spotter plane up or not.

In fact, I'll do the obligatory post into PigeonofWars thread again..  I tend to do this once every few months but never get a reply :)

M

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comment removed I misunderstood the complaint  sorry

Don't recall that ever happening to me but bugs are bothersome

 

Edited by nina_blain_73

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6 minutes ago, nina_blain_73 said:

comment removed I misunderstood the complaint  sorry

Don't recall that ever happening to me but bugs are bothersome

 

I don't actually think it's a bug as such, I think it's just the way it works (which means it's not a bug), but the way it works is not the best in this case and to my mind, could do with being looked at :)

M.

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3 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

I don't actually think it's a bug as such

Maybe not a bug, but there's no way to tell your guns to shoot over an island instead of at it when not targeting another ship.

I recall a time when this was broke even more than it is now.

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8 minutes ago, nina_blain_73 said:

comment removed I misunderstood the complaint  sorry

Don't recall that ever happening to me but bugs are bothersome

 

 

Just now, MaliceA4Thought said:

I don't actually think it's a bug as such, I think it's just the way it works (which means it's not a bug), but the way it works is not the best in this case and to my mind, could do with being looked at :)

M.

I agree with Malice.

I could be wrong but it seams like they designed the aim to be like WoT, and for most ships it wouldn't be an issue. It is very situational, you need to have high angle guns for it to be constantly problematic.

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29 minutes ago, stickeynote said:

Just a suggestion but can we please have our guns aim at the range we are looking instead of what we are actually looking at.

I know it has been an annoyance to me when shooting at a ship that blinks out behind an island to suddenly have my shells hit the island instead of the ship.

 

 

Without locking on to a ship, how can the computer figure out what range you are shooting at from aiming on a 2D plane? Observe:
https://thedailybounce.net/2017/06/16/sub_octavian-how-shell-dispersion-works/

Make sure the terrain hit indicator is on and pay attention to it and not fire if the icon is lit. 

 

23 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

This has long been a complaint and I agree it's infuriating to have a ship blink out and therefore all the shells fall short because the aim resets.

 

 

Once you fire, the shell's trajectory is ballistic. The shell doesn't alter its course just because you lose sight of the target. If the shell fell short, it's because you either didn't pay attention to the terrain hit indicator, or you weren't locked on to the target ship when you fired. 

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This has been one of my pet peeves and the reason why, is not only because of the wink out, it's that when a ship is invisafiring from behind an island, there is no way to target them. Invisafire does still exist in the game and there is no counter to it. Believe me when I say this flaw gets exploited.

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

This has been one of my pet peeves and the reason why, is not only because of the wink out, it's that when a ship is invisafiring from behind an island, there is no way to target them. Invisafire does still exist in the game and there is no counter to it. Believe me when I say this flaw gets exploited.

The counter is to use a scout plane so the origin of your aim point is higher which lets you aim behind islands and into smoke. This is why some people choose to take the  catapult scout plane instead of the catapult fighter plane.  Furthermore, firing behind an island only works if you stay at range, the closer you are to said island, the less likely he'd be able to fire over them. 

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2 minutes ago, NCC81701 said:

Once you fire, the shell's trajectory is ballistic. The shell doesn't alter its course just because you lose sight of the target. If the shell fell short, it's because you either didn't pay attention to the terrain hit indicator, or you weren't locked on to the target ship when you fired. 

No..  go into a training room and take a Bogatyr and put a non responsive enemy in the game.

Get an Island between you and the enemy.

Lock the enemy and fire..  shells will go over the island and hit enemy.

Remove lock, but don't change the positioning or aim point or anything..

Shells will now hit Island.

Put lock back on.. shells will clear island and hit target.

M

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2 minutes ago, NCC81701 said:

 

Without locking on to a ship, how can the computer figure out what range you are shooting at from aiming on a 2D plane? Observe:
https://thedailybounce.net/2017/06/16/sub_octavian-how-shell-dispersion-works/

Make sure the terrain hit indicator is on and pay attention to it and not fire if the icon is lit. 

 

 

Once you fire, the shell's trajectory is ballistic. The shell doesn't alter its course just because you lose sight of the target. If the shell fell short, it's because you either didn't pay attention to the terrain hit indicator, or you weren't locked on to the target ship when you fired. 

This is true if you were locked on when you fired and then the ship winks out, the shells still go where they were supposed to. The trouble is when it winks just the split second before you shoot.

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Just now, MaliceA4Thought said:

No..  go into a training room and take a Bogatyr and put a non responsive enemy in the game.

Get an Island between you and the enemy.

Lock the enemy and fire..  shells will go over the island and hit enemy.

Remove lock, but don't change the positioning or aim point or anything..

Shells will now hit Island.

Put lock back on.. shells will clear island and hit target.

M

 

Yes you need to have the target lock otherwise the computer wouldn't know what range you are aiming at so it aim at the closes point to what you are pointing at, the island. 

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30 minutes ago, stickeynote said:

Just a suggestion but can we please have our guns aim at the range we are looking instead of what we are actually looking at.

I know it has been an annoyance to me when shooting at a ship that blinks out behind an island to suddenly have my shells hit the island instead of the ship.

 

This will blow your mind - high arc gun trajectories actually hit where I aim, eventually, if they have to.... Last night I was grinding XP in my Missouri and was hitting where I was aiming without much thought and life was peachy.  Then I switched to my Amagi and the aim point that worked for the Missouri were splashing like 2 meters short.  I am not sure if it is an auto range bug or WoWS trying to help aim too much but it is quite a bother.  I just have to remember to aim just below the deck line with some guns on some ships.  

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Just now, NCC81701 said:

 

Yes you need to have the target lock otherwise the computer wouldn't know what range you are aiming at so it aim at the closes point to what you are pointing at, the island. 

same test in open water works as well...  

M

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That's just how it is. The only way to tell ot to shoot over islands would be to go into something like CV mode. 

 

But if that were available I would be using that primarily instead of what we have now, immersion be damned.

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1 minute ago, NCC81701 said:

The counter is to use a scout plane so the origin of your aim point is higher which lets you aim behind islands and into smoke. This is why some people choose to take the  catapult scout plane instead of the catapult fighter plane.  Furthermore, firing behind an island only works if you stay at range, the closer you are to said island, the less likely he'd be able to fire over them. 

Yes you are correct if a plane or another ship is spotting them you can hit them with ease. Not all ships have planes though and you can see the hidden ship firing but you still can't hit them. A gunners mate knows how to lob shots over an island though if a ship is shooting from concealment. In real life I mean.

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4 minutes ago, StoptheViolins said:

This will blow your mind - high arc gun trajectories actually hit where I aim, eventually, if they have to.... Last night I was grinding XP in my Missouri and was hitting where I was aiming without much thought and life was peachy.  Then I switched to my Amagi and the aim point that worked for the Missouri were splashing like 2 meters short.  I am not sure if it is an auto range bug or WoWS trying to help aim too much but it is quite a bother.  I just have to remember to aim just below the deck line with some guns on some ships.  

Not if you are not spotted by something they don't. Yes, an errant shell may make it over accidentally, but I would still like to be able to target over the Island. If radar can see through Islands, I should be able to target just over them too.

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I also realize that this mechanic would not be easy for them to fix. I am just saying it sucks. When another ship is hitting me I should be able to shoot back and at least target them. I also realize that different guns have different trajectories. If a Kutuzov is able to hit me from behind an island. I should definitely be able to hit it with an Atlanta but I cant get target lock unless it is being spotted by an exterior entity. Gun blooms should go thru islands like radar and sonar can. It's only right or there is still invisafiring plain and simple. Don't shoot, after 20 seconds you disappear. Shoot your guns reappear. Making a target that was locked stay locked for a period of time after it winks out might be another way to fix the flaw.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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8 minutes ago, NCC81701 said:

 

Without locking on to a ship, how can the computer figure out what range you are shooting at from aiming on a 2D plane? Observe:
https://thedailybounce.net/2017/06/16/sub_octavian-how-shell-dispersion-works/

Make sure the terrain hit indicator is on and pay attention to it and not fire if the icon is lit.

Same way it knows the range you are looking at when you are not locked on.

The point is when not locked on it should be aimed at the point on the horizontal plane we are looking at not the point on the map.

To your second point suppose we have a Neptune that slides up along the edge of an island between you and it. You lock it have good aim and no terrain block indicator, it pops smoke suddenly your shots are crap cause the terrain indicator pops up and now you are aimed at the mountain. You still know exactly where it is but cant hit it as you could a second ago. This is what we would like to stop.

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interestingly it also affect dispersion as well....

Heres two shots taken in training room..  one with lock and one without..  repeatable results every time.

shot-17_09.15_10_31.53-0268.thumb.jpg.348903e554a6d29e43d2bcfd5af18105.jpg

 

shot-17_09.15_10_32.04-0319.thumb.jpg.918f63c580f3d7e8c41436474bd09a24.jpg

 

M

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2 hours ago, stickeynote said:

Just a suggestion but can we please have our guns aim at the range we are looking instead of what we are actually looking at.

I know it has been an annoyance to me when shooting at a ship that blinks out behind an island to suddenly have my shells hit the island instead of the ship.

 

 

 This is my German main gunner.

 

OeuOQFU.jpg

Edited by Pata1985

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The problem with the 2D system of aiming is that the computer calculates the arc based on distance to the target.  If it is shooting at a ship, it knows the distance to that target and can calculate the arc based on where you are aiming.  If you are locked onto that ship and it goes behind and island, the arc remains the same, and if the island isn't too tall, you can still shoot over it.  However, if you lose target lock, or if the ship disappears, then the same aim point now becomes the side of the island.  Now your calculated arc is based on the distance to the island, not the distance to the ship that was behind it.  If you aim above the island, then your aim point is at a spot several km behind the island and not directly behind it.  In that case, you now overshoot the ship behind the island.  In some instances, if you have good gun arcs and the other side of the island is at the extreme of your gun range, you can aim high and lob shells behind the island just by default.

 

I would like to see a manual distance setting for aiming shots.  That way we could override the automatic aiming point and set the distance to the target manually.  The computer would then calculate the arc to get the shots to that target point.  It wouldn't care about terrain or anything.  If the arc didn't allow for the height of the terrain, the shots would hit it.  You would have to adjust the distance and try again.  You could even use it to shoot into smoke if you knew the approximate distance to the ship hidden in there.  This would solve all island camping issues.

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All my gunners are drunk, that they hit anything is through sheer probability :)

The one that bugs me is islands.  In the case where your weapons can range a target next to the island, however even though you are properly elevated you fall short.  Typically I equate this to some black magic that throws off the distance measure.  Or its an illusion, or I just can't elevated my guns right.

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2 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

This is true if you were locked on when you fired and then the ship winks out, the shells still go where they were supposed to. The trouble is when it winks just the split second before you shoot.

I had just assumed that this issue had been addressed a while ago, because this used to be a common annoyance for me too.  But these days for me at least, there seems to be somewhat of a delay after the enemy winks out where the shells will still travel over the island at the target instead of straight into the land mass as it used to.

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