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MrShermanTanker

Insta Kill Glitch?

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53 minutes ago, RizeKamishiro said:

wasnt it the hood that had the open magazine doors?

 

To quote from the wiki (which I'm sure has very reliable sources):

 

"The Royal Navy Battle Cruiser Fleet had also emphasised speed in ammunition handling over established safety protocol. In practice drills, cordite could not be supplied to the guns rapidly enough through the hoists and hatches. To bring up the propellant in good time to load for the next broadside, many safety doors were kept open that should have been shut to safeguard against flash fires. Bags of cordite were also stocked and kept locally, creating a total breakdown of safety design features."

 

If you actually read up on magazine detonations, "open magazine doors" ends up being quite a common factor.

 

The same was a potential contributing cause for Arizona as well. 

 

Arizona was in port, someone left a door open, fire outside the magazines got inside, and kaboom.

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7 hours ago, issm said:

 

Then your logic would be wrong.

 

Goes to show you how utterly unhistorical WoWS detonations are.

 

Due to how this game is programmed, the most common way for a ship to detonate is NOT with a direct AP penetration of the magazines, but rather, with splash damage, either from an HE shell, HE bomb, or torpedo.

 

While examples of torpedo caused detonations are fairly common, I can not find a single instance of an HE shell detonating a ship by lighting off an actual magazine. HE shells lighting off torpedoes, sure, but in WoWS, damage to torpedo mounts can not trigger a detonation.

 

Detonations in WoWS also leaves out the single most common cause of detonations I could find - internal fires.

 

Anyone who supports detonations in WoWS because of "realism" is simply throwing out some nonsense and hoping that no one actually checks them.

 

PS: If you further look at why ships detonate, another common cause you'll see is that human error on the part of the crew is blamed as a potential cause, i.e., leaving magazine doors open so that they can move shells and powder more quickly, like at Jutland. Those battlecruisers didn't detonate because they were vulnerable as designed, they detonated because ther crew used the ships outside of their design specs, and let external fires spread to the magazines.

 

That is to say, in a game like WoWS, which completely ignores the crew, examples like Jutland are inadmissible as historical examples of detonatons.

Some things like internal fires and crew members DO have to get left out due to the fact that they would be so damn game breaking in WOWS 

 

Torpedoes hitting the Magazines? Never heard of that and sounds unlikely since the Torpedo is under the fukcing water and the fires from the Torpedo is gonna get extinguished but ok ill take that

 

AP dosent fukc up the magazines!? How!? Ok sure they may ricochet or overpenetrate and not explode, but tell me, a Shell overpenetrating straight through the Magazine and coming out the other side is pretty much gonna Detonate it anyways... the Shell wont even have to explode to set off the Ammunition inside the Magazine...

 

Bombs do set off the Magazines, the Speed of the Bomb coupled by its Weight and Explosion can Smash the Deck Armour apart where the Magazine is, and the Fire from the Bomb finishes the job

 

Im not very sure about HE Shells hitting Main Gun Magazines, my guess is that if it hits the Deck Armour instead of the Belt, it may cause it to Detonate, though i highly doubt that Splash Damage well help it most likely has to be a Direct Hit

 

Torpedoes can be Detonated like Shells!? Why didnt anyone tell me that?

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7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

Some things like internal fires and crew members DO have to get left out due to the fact that they would be so damn game breaking in WOWS 

 

Funny how easily realism gets thrown to the curb when it actually takes work.

 

7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

Torpedoes hitting the Magazines? Never heard of that and sounds unlikely since the Torpedo is under the fukcing water and the fires from the Torpedo is gonna get extinguished but ok ill take that

 

New Orleans's forward magazine detonated after being hit by a torpedo at Tassafaronga.

 

7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

AP dosent fukc up the magazines!? How!? Ok sure they may ricochet or overpenetrate and not explode, but tell me, a Shell overpenetrating straight through the Magazine and coming out the other side is pretty much gonna Detonate it anyways... the Shell wont even have to explode to set off the Ammunition inside the Magazine...

 

Not in game. AP overpens of the magazine do not trigger a detonation roll.

 

Shell has to stop inside the magazine to detonate in WoWS.

 

7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

Bombs do set off the Magazines, the Speed of the Bomb coupled by its Weight and Explosion can Smash the Deck Armour apart where the Magazine is, and the Fire from the Bomb finishes the job

 

I don't give a damn about real life. I'd imagine AP bombs work like AP shells, and have to stop inside the magazine to detonate. HE bombs detonate with splash damage.

 

7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

Im not very sure about HE Shells hitting Main Gun Magazines, my guess is that if it hits the Deck Armour instead of the Belt, it may cause it to Detonate, though i highly doubt that Splash Damage well help it most likely has to be a Direct Hit

 

Then you clearly have no idea how this game works.

 

HE shells don't "penetrate", they always stop at the first layer of armour they hit.

 

Any damage caused to internal components is caused by splash damage.

 

7 hours ago, MrShermanTanker said:

Torpedoes can be Detonated like Shells!? Why didnt anyone tell me that?

 

Not in game they can't.

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19 hours ago, issm said:

 

Funny how easily realism gets thrown to the curb when it actually takes work.

 

 

New Orleans's forward magazine detonated after being hit by a torpedo at Tassafaronga.

 

 

Not in game. AP overpens of the magazine do not trigger a detonation roll.

 

Shell has to stop inside the magazine to detonate in WoWS.

 

 

I don't give a damn about real life. I'd imagine AP bombs work like AP shells, and have to stop inside the magazine to detonate. HE bombs detonate with splash damage.

 

 

Then you clearly have no idea how this game works.

 

HE shells don't "penetrate", they always stop at the first layer of armour they hit.

 

Any damage caused to internal components is caused by splash damage.

 

 

Not in game they can't.

Im talking about if it happens in real life what would possibly happen...

 

EDIT: didnt see how you werent talking about real life xd

 

Also AP has to stop in the Magazine and explode inside the thing just to set it of!? So if it goes straight through and leaves a gigantic hole in the Shells stored in the Magazines the Explosives are gonna leak out of the Shells in the Destroyed Magazines and thats it!? What are they even thinking???

Edited by MrShermanTanker

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I just had some real questionable magazine explosion happen to my tier 9 German FDG BB. A single torpedo from a tier 7 destroyer which hit no where near the magazines on my ship. I had full health on the ship too. Should I file a complaint? Cause it was really questionable and ticks me off. Makes the game really no fun when stuff like that happens.

Edited by cpappa

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16 minutes ago, cpappa said:

I just had some real questionable magazine explosion happen to my tier 9 German FDG BB. A single torpedo from a tier 7 destroyer which hit no where near the magazines on my ship. I had full health on the ship too. Should I file a complaint? Cause it was really questionable and ticks me off. Makes the game really no fun when stuff like that happens.

Replay...  Without it no one can tell you to do anything,

Edited by CylonRed

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10 minutes ago, cpappa said:

I just had some real questionable magazine explosion happen to my tier 9 German FDG BB. A single torpedo from a tier 7 destroyer which hit no where near the magazines on my ship. I had full health on the ship too. Should I file a complaint? Cause it was really questionable and ticks me off. Makes the game really no fun when stuff like that happens.

Got a replay?

The vulnerable areas of a ship can be larger than you think.  Most players are unaware of the blast size of high explosive attacks (and are often shocked when they're shown) and where and how large their magazines are.  The forward magazines on battleships are especially vulnerable to torpedoes because of the thinner cross section of the ships in this region.  The magazines are closer to the outside of the ship, leaving them more exposed to a range of torpedo attacks.  Consider HMS Hood, for example.  The red areas show where Mutsu is vulnerable to IJN torpedo hits from tier 6 destroyers.  Notice how much larger the vulnerable area is towards the bow.

qWX8SIh.png

Provide the replay if you can.  I think if you look up how large Friedrich's magazines are, you won't be so shocked to see you were hit in a vulnerable area.

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I got detonated yesterday in my La Gal and I thought - but, but, but I had the flag....  Yea - well in my haste to put together my Algerie I decided to unmount the flags ahead of time then decided to get more XP to fully upgrade the Algerie...  Yea - I didn't have the flag mounted.

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Got a replay?

The vulnerable areas of a ship can be larger than you think.  Most players are unaware of the blast size of high explosive attacks (and are often shocked when they're shown) and where and how large their magazines are.  The forward magazines on battleships are especially vulnerable to torpedoes because of the thinner cross section of the ships in this region.  The magazines are closer to the outside of the ship, leaving them more exposed to a range of torpedo attacks.  Consider HMS Hood, for example.  The red areas show where Mutsu is vulnerable to IJN torpedo hits from tier 6 destroyers.  Notice how much larger the vulnerable area is towards the bow.

qWX8SIh.png

Provide the replay if you can.  I think if you look up how large Friedrich's magazines are, you won't be so shocked to see you were hit in a vulnerable area.

Unfortunately I don't have a replay. But I can tell you the torpedo hit dead straight on the forecastle from the front about as far as you can get from the forward turrets. I highly doubt the forecastle has any part of the forward magazine unless someone messed up in the design.

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On 9/15/2017 at 4:39 AM, Junkieturtle said:

When a detonation happens, it's an achievement that causes a system message to appear in the chat panel, so you'll always know when it occurs.

Not in Co-Op or Operations.

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On 9/17/2017 at 6:28 PM, MrShermanTanker said:

From what i see anything that can happen in the real world to Warships is generally a valid mechanic :P

 

So, like immunity zones?  it'd be nice if this cut the pen down so those mattered. 

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4 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

So, like immunity zones?  it'd be nice if this cut the pen down so those mattered. 

Immunity Zones are reflected in the game. The problem is the ranges are compressed to inside the immunity zone and therefore it's not very effective.

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5 hours ago, AraAragami said:

Immunity Zones are reflected in the game. The problem is the ranges are compressed to inside the immunity zone and therefore it's not very effective.

The ranges aren't compressed.  The penetration ranges in World of Warships are close to identical to the real world, including shell fall angles over distance.  The only thing that's compressed is how long it takes a shell to travel over distance.  A 410mm shell from Kii should take well over 12s to reach 10km traveling at 806m/s.  The games it in less than half that time.

Immuniy zones do exist in game, just like they did historically.  Here's the problem about immunity zones:  They are for ridiculously long ranges and were never practical.  Iowa's immunity zones were from its own guns at ranges of 16km and 27km.  Now consider that the longest real-world hits from Warspite and Scharnhorst (24km) were considered anomalies.  Most battleship hits happened at ranges inside this.

  • Jutland:  Combat began at 14km and ranged between 10 to 20km between battleships.
  • Battle of Denmark Strait:  Firing began at 24.2km.  Final salvos at 12.9km.
  • Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal:  USS Washington closed to within 8km of Kirishima before taking her apart.
  • Battle of Surigao Strait:  Firing began at 20.8km. 

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On 9/15/2017 at 3:29 PM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It's when ammunition in your magazines gets hit and this happens:

 

motherofgod.jpg

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On 9/15/2017 at 5:59 AM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It's when ammunition in your magazines gets hit and this happens:

 

 

That was an unarmored Ammunition Ship though, not a combat ship.

SS_John_Burke.jpg

 

We'd be looking at something more like this:

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Immuniy zones do exist in game, just like they did historically.  Here's the problem about immunity zones:  They are for ridiculously long ranges and were never practical.  Iowa's immunity zones were from its own guns at ranges of 16km and 27km.  Now consider that the longest real-world hits from Warspite and Scharnhorst (24km) were considered anomalies.  Most battleship hits happened at ranges inside this

 

That's what I was trying to say. Thanks for clarifying.

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On 9/16/2017 at 9:03 PM, JediMasterDraco said:

He said he fired a single shot. Devastating Strike is any attack that kills an enemy with more than half their health. What happened in the scenario being described is a Detonation.

 

A Detonation on a ship with more than half health is also a Devastating Strike. 

 

Note that a Detonation is "attached" to the recipient.  A Devastating Strike is "attached" to the deliverer.  Hence, in the chat panel, the detonation will be shown with the name of the player getting detonated.  The Devastating Strike (if applicable during the detonation) will be shown next to the player that caused the detonation.  This combination will show you who got detonated and who delivered it.  if you don't see both detonation and devastating strike, then the ship getting detonated was less than half HP.  You can still see who delivered the detonation by checking the kill panel above the mini-map.

 

Lastly, multiple penetrating hits and a cit or two can cause insta deletes as well, provided the total damage exceeds the HP remaining in the ship. When the remaining HP was greater then 50%, a Devastating Strike has occurred.  These Devastating Strikes are often confused as a detonation due to the large amount of damage and the resulting insta-delete that occurs (just like a detonation).  Again, looking at the chat panel (or the icons on the end game stats) will let you know if it was a "true" detonation (wipes any and all HP regardless of what you have) or just a Devastating Strike (that did enough damage via pens and cits to wipe the HP pool) without detonating a magazine.

 

Edit:  Many players have claimed a detonation while running flags that prevent detonation.  There has never been any replay that showed this occurring.  There have been cases where it was shown a flag was not actually being flown, albeit the claimant thought they had loaded it.   And some were the result of Devastating Strike (without detonation).  An anti-det flag won't save you from a Devastating Strike.  I don't doubt the sincerity of those who claim detonation with a flag.  And it is quite possible a bug exists.  It's just that of all the claims we've seen, there is not one instance where evidence has shown anyone getting detonated while running the flag.

 

  

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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4 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

 

A Detonation on a ship with more than half health is also a Devastating Strike. 

 

Note that a Detonation is "attached" to the recipient.  A Devastating Strike is "attached" to the deliverer.  Hence, in the chat panel, the detonation will be shown with the name of the player getting detonated.  The Devastating Strike (if applicable during the detonation) will be shown next to the player that caused the detonation.  This combination will show you who got detonated and who delivered it.  if you don't see both detonation and devastating strike, then the ship getting detonated was less than half HP.  You can still see who delivered the detonation by checking the kill panel above the mini-map.

 

Lastly, multiple penetrating hits and a cit or two can cause insta deletes as well, provided the total damage exceeds the HP remaining in the ship. When the remaining HP was greater then 50%, a Devastating Strike has occurred.  These Devastating Strikes are often confused as a detonation due to the large amount of damage and the resulting insta-delete that occurs (just like a detonation).  Again, looking at the chat panel (or the icons on the end game stats) will let you know if it was a "true" detonation (wipes any and all HP regardless of what you have) or just a Devastating Strike (that did enough damage via pens and cits to wipe the HP pool) without detonating a magazine.

 

Edit:  Many players have claimed a detonation while running flags that prevent detonation.  There has never been any replay that showed this occurring.  There have been cases where it was shown a flag was not actually being flown, albeit the claimant thought they had loaded it.   And some were the result of Devastating Strike (without detonation).  An anti-det flag won't save you from a Devastating Strike.  I don't doubt the sincerity of those who claim detonation with a flag.  And it is quite possible a bug exists.  It's just that of all the claims we've seen, there is not one instance where evidence has shown anyone getting detonated while running the flag.

 

  

Um pretty sure that Destroyer at full health was on 10000+ HP and Caledon only does 2000 Per Citadel

 

 

And come to think of it i do remember the name of the guy i killed come popping up with an achievement but i was too focused to bother seeing what it was

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