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Phoenix_jz

Naval and Defense News (cont.)

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Well, it was a great thread, :Smile_sad: so let's be a bit more careful this time  :cap_like:

 

Looks like the UK has entered the ring for the US Frigate program.

 

UK used: Type 26 Frigate!

 

http://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/dsei/2017/09/14/bae-is-in-the-race-for-the-the-us-ffgx-with-its-type-26-frigate/

 

Considering the USN wants stuff they know will work, I'm not sure if they'll go for it. After all, none have been completed yet, so we've yet to see if any flaws appear. It would suck for the USN to build them and then find they've got a brand new fleet of ships with loads of issues à la the Type 45.

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What happened to the old thread?

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33 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

What happened to the old thread?

 

I think it just got a bit too political. If you're really dying to know, it's in the locked thread archives.

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12 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

 

I think it just got a bit too political. If you're really dying to know, it's in the locked thread archives.

Ah OK. Just curious.

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2 hours ago, Doomlock said:

 

Ah OK. Just curious.

 

no problem :Smile_Default:

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I partly bear responsibility for what happened to the old thread, but given someone else was being very cynical to power politics, I guess I should have known I would end that way. I'm sorry.

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The Type 26 although well armed may have an issue of speed, 26kt may not be enough to stay with US CVBG's. The QE class of carriers are slower so they can sprint together.

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Although probably not likely, the USN needs to investigate this possibility in order to be able to rule it out completely.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/14/u-s-navy-investigating-if-destroyer-crash-was-caused-by-cyberattack/

 

Another China-Russia naval drill, this time off the Sea of Okhotsk, north of Hokkaido.  This is the first time the Chinese navy will exercise in those waters.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2111231/drills-russia-put-chinese-navy-test-unfamiliar-waters

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Not sure if this has been posted before but if so, ignore it.

 

Names for the planned Royal Canadian Navy Joint Support Ships have been changed from their War of 1812 namesakes to HMCS Protecteur and HMCS Preserver, taking the names of the ships they are due to replace upon arrival.

 

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/war-of-1812-names-for-joint-support-ships-are-history-protecteur-and-preserver-are-the-new-names

Edited by xX_Critical_ClopOut69_Xx

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7 hours ago, Eisennagel said:

 

 

Although probably not likely, the USN needs to investigate this possibility in order to be able to rule it out completely.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/14/u-s-navy-investigating-if-destroyer-crash-was-caused-by-cyberattack/

 

Another China-Russia naval drill, this time off the Sea of Okhotsk, north of Hokkaido.  This is the first time the Chinese navy will exercise in those waters.

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2111231/drills-russia-put-chinese-navy-test-unfamiliar-waters

I don't understand why one would be considered a possible cyber attack but not the other 

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So, apparently Italy and France might design an anti-missile frigate. I guess that it's not totally unexpected, it was more or less implied in the various announcements about "potential collaborations", personally I was sceptical on the possibilities of similar collaborations when they were announced, the existing national programs for mid-sized frigates will take a significant share of the budget in the next decade, but a similar anti-missile frigate might just get acquired in limited numbers to complement the Horizons, splitting the development cost in a similar case would be quite opportune.

 

On the other hand the idea of a French controlled joint military group (an hypothesised counterbalance to an Italian controlled STX, this point is only implicit in the article) is potentially dangerous for us, Leonardo might end up paying the price of a similar joint venture in terms of reduced footprint in the naval sector, the arguments over the radar of the prospective frigate is a good example of what might happen in a French-controlled naval group. Also, the new 3,000-3,500 tons patrol ship hypothesised by the analyst would seemingly make the PPA Light fairly redundant to the eyes of the taxpayers, imo.


15 hours ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Considering the USN wants stuff they know will work, I'm not sure if they'll go for it. After all, none have been completed yet, so we've yet to see if any flaws appear. It would suck for the USN to build them and then find they've got a brand new fleet of ships with loads of issues à la the Type 45.

Well, let's not forget what happened with the Canadian competition.

10 hours ago, mofton said:

The Type 26 although well armed may have an issue of speed, 26kt may not be enough to stay with US CVBG's. The QE class of carriers are slower so they can sprint together.

Agreed, the RFI called for a sustained speed of 28 knots at 80% MCR (Maximum Continuous Rating). If the Type 26 requires modifications of the propulsion package, switching to CODLAG configuration for instance, that will add another layer of uncertainty on the design.

 

What is most interesting in that article is the assertion by the CSBA's analyst that the "the ship might be too rich for the Navy’s blood". I presumed that behind closed doors BAE could come up with a decent enough explanation for the price tag paid by the UK.


11 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

I partly bear responsibility for what happened to the old thread, but given someone else was being very cynical to power politics, I guess I should have known I would end that way. I'm sorry.

Power politics are cynical, the occasional sweetness and nice words are just for public relations, because of ("thanks to"?) people making declarations along the lines of "If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die here." even that façade is crumbling apart. As Thucydides famously said "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must", that's the harsh reality of the world, a reality that is only becoming more explicit with the posturing and menaces of "fire and fury" that come from this administration.

 

Anyway, most topics in this thread are relevant to geopolitics, unless we just post news without having any commentary whatsoever, like your sense of uneasiness with nuclear proliferation or my belief that proliferation is inevitable in a geopolitical architecture that fails to address the security needs of all non-nuclear states.


1 hour ago, JohnPJones said:

I don't understand why one would be considered a possible cyber attack but not the other 

It's not really clear from the article, but I would assume that the investigation of Fitzgerald's collision has progressed to the point where cyber attack can be excluded, while the one of McCain's still hasn't reached the same point and thus at this moment they still can't exclude the possibility.

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On the topic of frigates, BAE voiced concerns (open the ft.com result, hotlinking doesn't work) over the competitive tender for the building of the Type 31e. The FT also reports that BAE privately admits that it doesn't expect to win the prime contractor role for the new frigate (as I thought that it was fair to guess after the publication of the endurance/range requirements) and it could face competition in the supply of combat systems. The article also features some comments on the difficulty of building a combat capable frigate with a £250 millions cap.

 

Also, Admiral Makarov successfully tested its Shtil air defence system against a simulated cruise missile in a "complex electronic jamming situation".

http://tass.com/defense/965204

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2 hours ago, RedBear87 said:

So, apparently Italy and France might design an anti-missile frigate. I guess that it's not totally unexpected, it was more or less implied in the various announcements about "potential collaborations", personally I was sceptical on the possibilities of similar collaborations when they were announced, the existing national programs for mid-sized frigates will take a significant share of the budget in the next decade, but a similar anti-missile frigate might just get acquired in limited numbers to complement the Horizons, splitting the development cost in a similar case would be quite opportune.

 

On the other hand the idea of a French controlled joint military group (an hypothesised counterbalance to an Italian controlled STX, this point is only implicit in the article) is potentially dangerous for us, Leonardo might end up paying the price of a similar joint venture in terms of reduced footprint in the naval sector, the arguments over the radar of the prospective frigate is a good example of what might happen in a French-controlled naval group. Also, the new 3,000-3,500 tons patrol ship hypothesised by the analyst would seemingly make the PPA Light fairly redundant to the eyes of the taxpayers, imo.

 

Honestly I wasn't expecting it given the fact past collaborations haven't gone so smoothly, and especially on top of recent relations. However, I'm curious if this is to be a 'Frigate' as in a Frigate, or a 'Frigate' as in the French calling everything a Frigate and it's actually a Destroyer? If it's meant to compliment the Orizzonte/Horizon, it could end up being DDG sized... then again, it appears the focus for it is for ABM work, so maybe it will just stay as a frigate? Probably too early to call.
 

The concept of those two groups, though, I absolutely do not trust. Perhaps I'm being too opinionated, but I don't see that going well, especially not with the current French leadership and their recent actions.

As far as 3-3.5k ton patrol ships... it would seem redundant on top of the PPA Light, but I've also heard rumors that the whole plan with the PPA is that all eventually will be pushed up to Full, so perhaps they're going to be geared towards covering the potential gap opened up there?

 

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2 hours ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Honestly I wasn't expecting it given the fact past collaborations haven't gone so smoothly, and especially on top of recent relations. However, I'm curious if this is to be a 'Frigate' as in a Frigate, or a 'Frigate' as in the French calling everything a Frigate and it's actually a Destroyer? If it's meant to compliment the Orizzonte/Horizon, it could end up being DDG sized... then again, it appears the focus for it is for ABM work, so maybe it will just stay as a frigate? Probably too early to call.
 

The concept of those two groups, though, I absolutely do not trust. Perhaps I'm being too opinionated, but I don't see that going well, especially not with the current French leadership and their recent actions.

As far as 3-3.5k ton patrol ships... it would seem redundant on top of the PPA Light, but I've also heard rumors that the whole plan with the PPA is that all eventually will be pushed up to Full, so perhaps they're going to be geared towards covering the potential gap opened up there?

Well, the anonymous naval specialist mentioned in the article talks about a "heavier warship", because of the more powerful radar requiring more powerful powerplant and cooling equipments, but I have to admit that it's not really clear to me whether he's an insider or not.

 

According to what I read it's the three Light+ (and perhaps all three three PPAs in option) that got upgraded, the planned PPA #11>16 are still supposed to be in Light configuration. There's a gap in numbers if they're aiming at one-to-one replacements (eight PPA Full would belatedly replace eight Minervas, but on the other hand eight PPA Light would have to replace four Iraqi Soldatis, four Comandantis, two Sirios and two Cassiopeas), but if they will actually design a new patrol ship I'm suspecting PPA's building might get interrupted at the ten authorised ships, if not even just the seven already funded.

 

EDIT:
Moar frigates, a few models from the DSEI:
BMT Venator

Babock's Arrowhead

LCS 125M, Lockheed's answer to the FFG(X) program.

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Ugh, that fat Freedom LCS, stay in the past as the smaller boondoggle that you were and trouble us no more. As for the Russians report on their missile test, I seriously doubt there was any jamming going on at all, just more fluff words like they did in the Cold War.

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23 hours ago, RedBear87 said:

 I presumed that behind closed doors BAE could come up with a decent enough explanation for the price tag paid by the UK.

I assume they'll mention development costs, amongst other things.

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1 hour ago, mr3awsome said:

I assume they'll mention development costs, amongst other things.

Don't forget the sausages, eggs and number of London buses you can fit inside the hull.

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PLAN has built close to 20 of the Type 039A/B Yuan class, and may continue to build more as they seem quite satisfied with it.  The sub is said to be quieter than the Kilo class SSKs (which PLAN has stopped buying for sometime now after the Yuans were released.)   Article says, they plan to incorporate quantum technologies in future subs, such as quantum communication and navigation.

 

http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2017-09-16/doc-ifykywuc4571651.shtml

 

 

RzM8-fykymue6465951.jpg

Edited by Eisennagel

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After budget cuts, only a quarter of the Royal Navy can be sent to sea.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4889844/Royal-Navy-send-quarter-warships-sea.html

 

RN defers Harpoon retirement.

 

http://www.janes.com/article/74044/dsei-2017-uk-defers-harpoon-retirement

 

North Korea is trying to build a nuclear submarine, according to a Japanese newspaper report.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/17/report-north-korea-secretly-building-nuclear-subma/

 

India soon to launch second indigenous SSBN.

 

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/indias-navy-just-built-second-nuclear-missile-submarine-22340

Edited by Eisennagel

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