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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Deep Water Torpedoes?

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If I'm not mistaken, won't DDs just spot DW torps intended for allies without having to worry about being hit by them? Won't German DD hydro just completely neuter them as a threat?

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14 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Also, we already have MM deciding how our games go by putting us together with 11 other strangers of varying skill, so that's a moot point

 

You completely ignore degree.

 

The problem here is that an imbalance in skill between CVs matters far more than an imbalance in the other categories, simply because CVs have so many more responsibilities.

 

15 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

if the power is reduced, to the point that said responsibilities are out of the CV players' hands, then wouldn't the 1 CV limit per team be no longer needed

 

That's a sign of success, that you no longer need hard MM restrictions to balance out the class.

 

16 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Also, a skill mismatch is not a problem unique to CVs, but I suppose 1 CV per team simply magnifies the issue

 

The magnifying factor isn't "1 CV per team", the magnifying factor is "CVs", again, because of all the abilities they have.

 

It doesn't help matters that they also happen to be the one class who counters their opponent by directly shutting them down.

 

A DD outmatched by their opposite can simply run away and fight somewhere else, a CV doesn't have that luxury.

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Heard Deep Water Torpedoes will only hit Battleships and Cruisers?

Sounds scary, but is actually kind of funny; imagine an IJN DD which has chosen deep water torps and gets into a game with a large number of DD's in it; say 5 per side. Suddenly he realizes he has crap guns and no torps against over a third of the enemy team.

DD's are giving up a lot to use those against BB's and CA's; vulnerability against other DD's.

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13 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Before I get started, let me create a term to describe this.  I'll refer to it as the Skill Multiplier.  Every ship and ship type can be thought of as having a Skill Multiplier, which represents how much can the skill of the player enhance the abilities of the ship or ship type.  It seems to me that carriers have the greatest Skill Multiplier because very good players can make their CV's borderline if not outright OP while bad players can make their CV's non-entities.

Now, what I think needs to occur is a reworking that would reduce the skill multiplier of CVs so that the best players can't turn the ship into an OP force of nature, while weak CV players aren't reduced to useless piles of goo by the complexity of playing a CV.  That said, I have no idea how one could do this, short of removing all of the "alt' attacks and going with strictly automatic attacks, which could take things possibly too far in the other direction.

 

 

Get rid of, or heavily nerf, fighter combat, and shift that power onto ship AA - something like a short duration, weaker, mid range only DF with limited charges.

 

This would prevent a skilled player from being able to shut down the enemy CV, which reduces your skill multiplier.

 

No, I don't care that it would be unrealistic. CVs cycling the same plane 4 times in 20 mins is just as unrealistic, if not more so.

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26 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Indeed.

The problem with CV's is that the ability of the player to leverage their skill is much greater in CV's than other types.  At least that's how it seems to me.  A bad player in a CV is almost a non-entity, whereas a bad player in a regular ship usually gets something done.

And no other ship type has the ability to completely neutralize stealthy destroyers like a CV.  IMO, part of the problem here is that there's no range or time limit on how long CV planes can stay in the air.  I won't say that it should be really short, but at the same time, it shouldn't be unlimited.

How often does one land torps on DD's?  Actually, if you're firing torps into smoke, getting a hit and perhaps even a kill is a bonus.  The primary intent is usually to just hope to flush them out of the smoke.  

You would be able to flush them out even with deep water torpedoes - how would they know? :D

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5 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Sounds scary, but is actually kind of funny; imagine an IJN DD which has chosen deep water torps and gets into a game with a large number of DD's in it; say 5 per side. Suddenly he realizes he has crap guns and no torps against over a third of the enemy team.

DD's are giving up a lot to use those against BB's and CA's; vulnerability against other DD's.

even funnier..  end of game..  1DD left per team  1 has Deep torps, one has normal torps.

I know which one I would rather be:)

M

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35 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

When a CV is on the prowl, your main defence against him is huddling together with allied ships to pool together your AA fire power

This still makes a DD 100% useless, hence not fun. In a game with 11 strangers, I can still have fun even if half or most of my team sucks if there is no CV. But, 1 single player should not have such an effect on 11 others.

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37 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

All the info on these are on the WG FB page if I'm not mistaken.

 

Found this on Armored Patrol..

 

WoWS 0.6.10: Deep Water Torpedoes Stats

Deep Water Torpedo Comp.
Tier 2
Tier 3
Tier 4
Tier 5
Tier 6
Tier 7
Tier 8
Tier 9
Tier X
Torpedo Name
500mm G/6 AV
533mm Mark II
533mm Mark 11
533mm Mark VII
533mm 53-31
533mm Mark IX
533mm Mark 15 Mod 3
533mm Mark 16 Mod 1
533mm Mark 17
Torpedo Damage
10,600
10,000
11,733
15,733
14,400
15,867
16,633
19,033
17,900
“Deep Water” Damage
13,567
12,700
14,967
20,100
17,533
20,300
21,267
24,400
22,900
Torpedo Speed
49 knots
53 knots
56 knots
59 knots
60 knots
61 knots
55 knots
66 knots
68 knots
Torpedo Range
6.0 km
6.0 km
5.5 km
6.0 km
8.0 km
8.0 km
9.15 km
10.5 km
13.5 km
“Deep Water” Running Depth
4.2 meters
4.65 meters
5.1 meters
5.5 meters
5.5 meters
5.5 meters
5.85 meters
6.0 meters
6.15 meters
Torpedo Detection Range
0.9 km
1.1 km
1.1 km
1.2 km
1.2 km
1.3 km
1.1 km
1.4 km
1.4 km
“Deep Water” Detection Range
0.6 km
0.7 km
0.7 km
0.7 km
0.8 km
0.8 km
0.7 km
0.8 km
0.8 km

We speculate that the deepwater torpedoes will be similar to the AP/HE bomb choice the Enterprise has, by being a module that you can select before the battle. Of course, the stats here are not final, so expect changes before they go live.

 

 

So how is a 13.5 km ranged, 68 knot fast, 22.9k damaging torpedo with a concealment of 0.8 km!!! is OK by WG standards when they fcking nerfed IJN torps into the ground???

I am absolutely sure, they did not nerf IJN torps because other DDs complained about getting killed by them.

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24 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

This still makes a DD 100% useless, hence not fun. In a game with 11 strangers, I can still have fun even if half or most of my team sucks if there is no CV. But, 1 single player should not have such an effect on 11 others.

Not entirely useless.  There are some things you can do.  Frankly, one thing that would really help DD's vs this problem of being perma-spotted, would be if planes simply could not spot torpedoes, deep water or otherwise.  If you could still use your torps without them being spotted by planes while those planes are spotting your DD, it'd let DD's be able to do something useful.  But if you're prema-spotted by planes and they're able to spot your torps, you're almost a non-entity, at least for torp boats.

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38 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

This still makes a DD 100% useless, hence not fun. In a game with 11 strangers, I can still have fun even if half or most of my team sucks if there is no CV. But, 1 single player should not have such an effect on 11 others.

I did not say that the effective tactic would be enjoyable...

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10 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

I did not say that the effective tactic would be enjoyable...

I might as well go afk and save my self some time, I play a game to have fun, otherwise what is the point.

24 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Frankly, one thing that would really help DD's vs this problem of being perma-spotted, would be if planes simply could not spot torpedoes, deep water or otherwise. 

I was arguing for that for a at least year now, I hate it when you spend 5 minutes planning your route, getting into perfect position, launching torps only for them to be spotted by some random plane flying by that you could not see on minimap or other wise ahead of time. At least if planes you could not permanently spot torpedoes, only when directly above them.

 

Edited by Vaitmana
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Meh, the torps are down to nothing but being the new 'gimmick' - nothing more.

 

WG couldn't limit them to BBs only, as no DD player would choose them; add another class that the torps can hit and some start to consider value. However, if they wanted to do something regarding BBs then why not just reduce the Torpedo Armour Belts on BBs?

It changes nothing but the fact that when torps hit a BB they actually do good damage (no hitting BBs with 6+ torps spread across the ship and still see them carry on!); it doesn't penalize other ship classes, it is a measured changed and not a sledge hammer that we sometimes get.

 

But then again, its not a gimmick - so what will make their Pan-DDs special?

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3 hours ago, sulghunter331 said:

I thought your main point of contention was that CVs would just park an empty strike squad over you and let their team kill you, now it's outright destruction?

issm's main point of contention is that DD's aren't OP little ships that run around unimpeded doing whatever they want.  If a ship has even a 1% chance of hitting a DD he will complain about it. 

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2 hours ago, Vaitmana said:

So how is a 13.5 km ranged, 68 knot fast, 22.9k damaging torpedo with a concealment of 0.8 km!!! is OK by WG standards when they fcking nerfed IJN torps into the ground???

I am absolutely sure, they did not nerf IJN torps because other DDs complained about getting killed by them.

 

Non-Deep Water torpedoes like IJN DD torps can hit DDs.  DW torpedoes cannot.  Did you not get the memo?  Sure, the 0.8km detection range is great against Crusiers and Battleships but you are taking away your best weapon against another DD.  That is a massive trade-off.

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3 hours ago, Umikami said:

Sounds scary, but is actually kind of funny; imagine an IJN DD which has chosen deep water torps and gets into a game with a large number of DD's in it; say 5 per side. Suddenly he realizes he has crap guns and no torps against over a third of the enemy team.

DD's are giving up a lot to use those against BB's and CA's; vulnerability against other DD's.

Heard only new DD line would get them

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1 hour ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Meh, the torps are down to nothing but being the new 'gimmick' - nothing more.

 

But then again, its not a gimmick - so what will make their Pan-DDs special?

New line will look different and be a new nation as the gimmick, no new freaky Torpedo type needed, not to mention the new toros would likely glitch out like crazy. I had a Torp either pass right through enter line of  my Aoba from stern to bow, or in very least was scraping paint off hull, but 0 damage. Lol just imagine the bigs the new torps might create.

 

Only thing that might happen is some noobs shooting each other' DDs with Deep Water Toros for 10 minutes would likely start happening as well.

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5 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Heard only new DD line would get them

Like radar?

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Because these are the "flavor" of the Pan-Asian DD line (because it's not like WarGimmick can't find another major tech tree to implement, like French DDs or Italian cruisers), I'm worried about what other hare-brained gimmicks the other tech trees will be faced.

Based on the previews already, British DDs may be the stealthiest DDs in the game.

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9 minutes ago, BrentD15 said:

 I'm worried about what other hare-brained gimmicks the other tech trees will be faced.

 

oh  I know this one...

Deep water torps can go under islands..  for sure that's it :)

M

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17 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

oh  I know this one...

Deep water torps can go under islands..  for sure that's it :)

M

+1 , makes perfect sense as RADAR goes through islands in this game

Edited by Strachwitz666

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6 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Non-Deep Water torpedoes like IJN DD torps can hit DDs.  DW torpedoes cannot.  Did you not get the memo?  Sure, the 0.8km detection range is great against Crusiers and Battleships but you are taking away your best weapon against another DD.  That is a massive trade-off.

Truth be known, this was a trait of US torpedoes , designed to go under keels(and magnetic field detonate) and because of faulty depth keeping caused by the bad location of the depth valve intake , they went deeper than the deep depth they were already set for. This continued even after they realized the mag detonators were not truly reliable and also easily countered and set the torps for shallower depth keeping to use contact pistols(which were faulty too).

 

FYI- They had the intake hole for the hydro-static mech placed such that the forward speed of the torp created a low pressure flow at/over the hole, lessening what the torp thought its depth was.

 

I don't get the whole in-game deep water torp bit, as no-one wants to miss a DD or wanted to IRL. Besides IRL, the deep setting was  used for magnetic field pistols (under the keel) torps , which went obsolete with deguassing systems anyway, beside the trickiness of using magnetic fields to begin with.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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I really hope that DDs and CLs understand how important that it's going to be to spot and screen for their BBs now, as with these things in the wild, excessively cautious play from battleships is going to be completely justified.

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12 hours ago, Vaitmana said:

I might as well go afk and save my self some time, I play a game to have fun, otherwise what is the point.

I was arguing for that for a at least year now, I hate it when you spend 5 minutes planning your route, getting into perfect position, launching torps only for them to be spotted by some random plane flying by that you could not see on minimap or other wise ahead of time. At least if planes you could not permanently spot torpedoes, only when directly above them.

 

Come to think of it, eliminating the spotting of torpedoes by planes would help stealth launched torpedoes across the board, not just those launched by spotted DD's.  One has to wonder what percentage of torpedoes that are evaded (that would otherwise have hit, i.e. were properly aimed) were evaded due to having been spotted by planes.  I know that for many people, a big reason to have cat fighters on their ships is to use them as an alternative or backup to hydro for spotting torpedoes.  If they could no longer do so, it would be a significant plus for stealth launched torpedoes.  Not really so much for torps launched by already spotted ships, since any half decent player should know which ships mount torps and represent a torp threat to their ship (i.e. are in range to use said torpedoes).

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41 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I really hope that DDs and CLs understand how important that it's going to be to spot and screen for their BBs now, as with these things in the wild, excessively cautious play from battleships is going to be completely justified.

Cruisers aren't all that excited to be screening BBs because what that really ends up meaning is making yourself a big fat juicy target for the enemy, if by screening you mean being out in front of the BBs.  And frankly, no one really signs up for that when they decide to play a cruiser.

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