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Labedoyere

Power Creep ?

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ok....I have seen this quite often on the boards....Power Creep....What does it mean as far as this game goes?

 

Might be a dumb question for most of you...But it is a honest question.

 

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Power creep, in general, means new content is better than old content and this, well, just is true. It's most obvious when you look at the battleships. United states used to only compete with japanese and for the most part the japanese were better but not exceedingly so. Then came the germans which made the former brawling role of the USN utterly moot. And now came the british which are also considerably better than the USN. 

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Power Creep is simply put the trend of newer ships outperforming the already existing ships.

As an example I would point at New York and König at T5. Back when there were only two Battleship lines the New York was the one who could tank better, with the armor being relatively superior to the Kongou and she also had the quantity of shells. With the release of the König a tankier ship entered the ring, with a faster reload and similar amount of guns, while being faster and carrying better AA.

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Take for example, American BB's.

When there were just the IJN and USN BB lines, the US Battleships were the brawlers and had fantastic AA, but gave up range, accuracy, and in most tiers speed to the IJN line.

Now add the German Battleships.

They are (at most tiers) faster than the USN BB's, are better in a brawl due to their armor layout and secondary batteries, and for all practical purposes have as good if not better AA.

In this case, USN BB's have (largely) been the victim of power creep as a new line does everything the old line did, but better.

 

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Ideal engagement ranges grow from within concealment range to massively over it.

 

The result is in lower tiers all ships can decide on how much DPS they want to tolerate in order to deal their own DPS.

 

While in high tier nobody else outside DDs can do that since getting lit at ~11km or 14km well within lethal range when everyone can deal massive DPS up to 16km. You could conceivably (I'd even say reliably) be in range of half the enemy team and not know it until lit. Hence the camping and "DDs do ur jerb"

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2 minutes ago, Naughtius_Maximus said:

Ideal engagement ranges grow from within concealment range to massively over it.

 

The result is in lower tiers all ships can decide on how much DPS they want to tolerate in order to deal their own DPS.

 

While in high tier nobody else outside DDs can do that since getting lit at ~11km or 14km well within lethal range when everyone can deal massive DPS up to 16km. Hence the camping and "DDs do ur jerb"

 

That's not power creep.

 

Power creep happens in pretty much all games, it's a side effect of adding new content. Your original content exists within a balance framework, and new content often stretches that framework in order to differentiate itself from the original.

 

Ideally, whenever a new line comes in, once it is settled, it should be checked against all other lines of that ship type, and older ships balanced accordingly. But that's a lot of work.

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42 minutes ago, Labedoyere said:

ok....I have seen this quite often on the boards....Power Creep....What does it mean as far as this game goes?

 

Might be a dumb question for most of you...But it is a honest question.

 

Never, ever bad to ask questions, that's what the forum is here for.  If you have a genuine desire to educate yourself, it earns you respect.

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Power creep is something "normal" in online games. You are constantly adding new content, that is often better than the old ones or no one would play them. Many games make a rework of the old content after a while.

 

Right now the line that is most suffering with power creep is the low/mid tier USN BBs. When there was only IJN and USN BBs they used to e brawlers, with better armor and shotgun guns, but since the german BB line they kinda lost their role. And now with the RN BB line thigs got even worse for low/mid tier USN BBs.

 

Im not saying that they are terrible or unplayable, but they are not as good as they used to be. 

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16 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Ideally, whenever a new line comes in, once it is settled, it should be checked against all other lines of that ship type, and older ships balanced accordingly. But that's a lot of work.

Yes, it is a lot of work.

But it's necessary work.

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16 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

 

That's not power creep.

 

Power creep happens in pretty much all games, it's a side effect of adding new content. Your original content exists within a balance framework, and new content often stretches that framework in order to differentiate itself from the original.

 

Ideally, whenever a new line comes in, once it is settled, it should be checked against all other lines of that ship type, and older ships balanced accordingly. But that's a lot of work.

 

The other reason for power creep is simply incentive.  Once a considerable percentage of players have obtained / gone through most of the content, the game company needs to provide enough of a carrot for players to go through the new content.  If the new content is the same or especially lower quality / effectiveness, then those players will have a greater chance of ignoring the new content which also increases the speed at which they move on to other games.  Look at how much of an uproar happens when WG releases a new line or ship or even premium ship that is underwhelming, so power creep is hard to avoid.

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34 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

 

That's not power creep.

 

Power creep happens in pretty much all games, it's a side effect of adding new content. Your original content exists within a balance framework, and new content often stretches that framework in order to differentiate itself from the original.

 

Ideally, whenever a new line comes in, once it is settled, it should be checked against all other lines of that ship type, and older ships balanced accordingly. But that's a lot of work.

 

Very sorry, I meant core balance issues.

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1 hour ago, Labedoyere said:

ok....I have seen this quite often on the boards....Power Creep....What does it mean as far as this game goes?

 

Might be a dumb question for most of you...But it is a honest question.

 

An example of Powercreep is the Vl Cleveland or the V Premium Murmansk back in the day these 2 were top dogs but now with new Cruisers that you now face in todays MM ,and even same tier Radar,smoke, able to shoot longer ranges these Two and others have a harder time so there no longer top dogs

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power creep only exists it you believe it does.  Most look at one ability vs another.   "This new ship x is better brawler than, old y ship".  ignoring other abilities.  OK UK BBs have better fire chance but, secondaries suck.  Germans better brawlers than US BUT, US AA is way better.   I could go on and on.

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2 hours ago, BrentD15 said:

Yes, it is a lot of work.

But it's necessary work.

 

To some degree maybe, but if most of your players are playing newer (not necessarily newest) content, it's not the biggest priority.

 

Personally, I would like to see more of that work done, as I keep and play a lot of the older ships, but at the same time, new lines keep me with so many ships that I (with limited playtime available) don't play any one ship that much.

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1 hour ago, RobertViktor68 said:

Germans better brawlers than US BUT, US AA is way better.   I could go on and on.

 

Depends on the ship. Tiers 5-7, KM BBs have better AA. Pretty even as far as quantity, but KM has more DPS in their large guns at those tiers, so you can actually kill planes before they drop.

 

USN AA is actually kind of meh until they start mounting 5/38s.

 

Another reason you get power creep is that if the devs are trying to guide the meta, a new ship line will likely capitalise on the new meta somehow. 

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2 hours ago, VGLance said:

 

The other reason for power creep is simply incentive.  Once a considerable percentage of players have obtained / gone through most of the content, the game company needs to provide enough of a carrot for players to go through the new content.  If the new content is the same or especially lower quality / effectiveness, then those players will have a greater chance of ignoring the new content which also increases the speed at which they move on to other games.  Look at how much of an uproar happens when WG releases a new line or ship or even premium ship that is underwhelming, so power creep is hard to avoid.

The small sliver of exception is that WoWs does have the collector factor for new ships - some people will want them because they like ships in general or some specific nation, etc.

 

That being said I think the above is spot on; to use an analogy from WoW (the other one) in vanilla you had the tier 1-3 sets, and with each expansion new gear/gear sets come along so it can feed into the sense of better gear = more power = improvement. Baring some kind of "stat squish" as what the other WoW did at one point (where they normalized all the gear to a lower power curve) this will be an issue until forever (give or take)

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3 hours ago, Skpstr said:

 

To some degree maybe, but if most of your players are playing newer (not necessarily newest) content, it's not the biggest priority.

However, just prioritizing throwing new content into the game instead of re-addressing core mechanics or even older content can lead the game's previously-established player-base leaving the game out of frustration.

Just look at Gaijin and War Thunder. Unaddressed issues have caused a lot of the early player-base to drop the game and go elsewhere, and the game thus receives a negative reputation for not addressing those issues, or even screwing up addressing said issues.

You can only put stuff on the back-burner for so long before people start giving up.

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