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GambitHG

Historical Ship Tier Limits?

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I have difficulty playing paper ships with a clear conscience, so I've tasked myself with limiting my leveling to each line's maximum historical tier. From what I've been able to research, that would be the following:

France: CA: T7 

Germany: BB: T8;  CA: T8;  DD: T8

Japan: CV: T9;  BB: T10;  CA: T8 (T9 if you include the unfinished Ibuki); DD: T10

Russia: CA: T8;  DD: T9

UK: BB: T7 (T9 if you include the partially completed Lion); CA T8

USA: CV: T10;  BB: T9;  CA: T10;  DD: T10

I understand within each line there are lower tier ships that are not historical, but I'm just grinding through them to get to the next historical ship, then selling them off.  I'm also wondering if I should further restrict my choices to ships that served just up to the end of WWII (Which would remove the Gearing among others).

 

So does this list look right, or am I missing anything here?

 

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That looks right, but you have to stop the IJN BBs at myogi.

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8 minutes ago, megadeux said:

That looks right, but you have to stop the IJN BBs at myogi.

Um why at the Myogi? Kongou follows after it.

 

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What's your definition of "historical"?  Finished ships only? 

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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"That looks right, but you have to stop the IJN BBs at myogi."

 

I believe he says he is just grinding through the non-historical ships and not keeping those after completing the path to the next ship.  His list matches mine for what that's worth.

 

You'll have to make up your mind OP as to what to do about ships that didn't actually participate in WWII, I haven't actually looked into that aspect of the game, although I realize some ships are from later periods.  I'm sure others have and will be glad to chime in with their opinions.  

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19 minutes ago, GambitHG said:

I have difficulty playing paper ships with a clear conscience, so I've tasked myself with limiting my leveling to each line's maximum historical tier. From what I've been able to research, that would be the following:

France: CA: T7 

Germany: BB: T8;  CA: T8;  DD: T8

Japan: CV: T9;  BB: T10;  CA: T8 (T9 if you include the unfinished Ibuki); DD: T10

Russia: CA: T8;  DD: T9

UK: BB: T7 (T9 if you include the partially completed Lion); CA T8

USA: CV: T10;  BB: T9;  CA: T10;  DD: T10

I understand within each line there are lower tier ships that are not historical, but I'm just grinding through them to get to the next historical ship, then selling them off.  I'm also wondering if I should further restrict my choices to ships that served just up to the end of WWII (Which would remove the Gearing among others).

 

So does this list look right, or am I missing anything here?

 

Looks pretty good.

Glad theres other people like this in the game.   I also prefer to play Historical ships and ignore the paper ones, and I usually don't play the lower tier paper designs and mods in the tech trees.  The tricky part though is spotting some of the ones which aren't paper but are "modified" by WG to non-standard for the period.

There was an old argument, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in Alpha where people wanted all ships in the game to be historical only....    that got well and truly stamped on by WG for two reasons...  1)  money not having all lines go to T10 would cut down on revenue, and 2) The host nation would have had almost no ships at all :)

My biggest decision at the moment is Belfast.. Whilst I like her, and enjoy playing her, Shes not in a configuration she ever fought in since she is in a 1953 (approx) rebuild state.

My biggest exception to all of this is Nikolai :)

I would love to have the ships available in various formats...  example..  another idea posted wayyyyyy back was that (and I'll take Belfast as an example again)  Ship as built...  T6 cruiser..   add the next hull..  T7 cruiser with better AA and other features...   Final 1953 configuration..  still T7,  drop some features add others to maintain balance.

Theres no logical reason why a ship cannot span multiple tiers based on its history and fittings etc..  but no  that went due to being to complicated for players to understand.

Anyhoo.. I'm ranting a bit, but I like the look of you're chart, and as I say looks about right.

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3 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

I would love to have the ships available in various formats...  example..  another idea posted wayyyyyy back was that (and I'll take Belfast as an example again)  Ship as built...  T6 cruiser..   add the next hull..  T7 cruiser with better AA and other features...   Final 1953 configuration..  still T7,  drop some features add others to maintain balance.

I believe they have sort of done this in a few instances like with the US cruisers Phoenix, Omaha, Marblehead, and Murmansk.  By using a preliminary build and a completed ship and putting them on different Tiers, and ships modified and used by different nations.  Konigsberg and Nurnberg (and the Admiral Makarov variant) might be another example of something like this showing up in the game, although different classes, they are essentially the same in the game.

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34 minutes ago, GambitHG said:

I'm also wondering if I should further restrict my choices

Since you are already playing paper ships just to "grind" through them a restriction is not applied in the first place. Do as you please.

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6 minutes ago, 1dennistt said:

I believe they have sort of done this in a few instances like with the US cruisers Phoenix, Omaha, Marblehead, and Murmansk.  By using a preliminary build and a completed ship and putting them on different Tiers, and ships modified and used by different nations.  Konigsberg and Nurnberg (and the Admiral Makarov variant) might be another example of something like this showing up in the game, although different classes, they are essentially the same in the game.

Yep  in a limited way, but I still believe there's room for doing it to tech tree ships as well in standard progression.  Yes that might mean that a fully equiped ship X may be a T6 and a basic ship Y would also be T6 but again, to my mind that eases the progression of ships that need fully fitting out and for players working up the trees, that would help in that progression and make it faster and still enjoyable rather than jumping to a higher tier in a basic ship. :)

Back in Alpha, the very first tech trees were more "real ship" limited..  memory is failing now, but I think it was the IJN BB line had a gap at T9.. ie no Izumo  and to get Yamato you had to get the exp from T8 all the way to T10 with no T9 in the middle.

M

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45 minutes ago, GambitHG said:

I have difficulty playing paper ships with a clear conscience, so I've tasked myself with limiting my leveling to each line's maximum historical tier. From what I've been able to research, that would be the following:

France: CA: T7 

Germany: BB: T8;  CA: T8;  DD: T8

Japan: CV: T9;  BB: T10;  CA: T8 (T9 if you include the unfinished Ibuki); DD: T10

Russia: CA: T8;  DD: T9

UK: BB: T7 (T9 if you include the partially completed Lion); CA T8

USA: CV: T10;  BB: T9;  CA: T10;  DD: T10

I understand within each line there are lower tier ships that are not historical, but I'm just grinding through them to get to the next historical ship, then selling them off.  I'm also wondering if I should further restrict my choices to ships that served just up to the end of WWII (Which would remove the Gearing among others).

 

So does this list look right, or am I missing anything here?

 

 

Z-52 was laid down but never completed. 

 

Z-46 was laid down as well but was bombed. Never completed. 

 

Technically those 2 ships aren't "paper" They were being built just never completed.. I don't know if that falls under your criteria? 

 

Also the  Fletcher served in Korea. So that would also be removed with your WW2 ending limit. 

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For me I enjoy seeing and playing paper ships, I have always enjoyed the "What if" of history. Like for example the Phoenix she is a true paper ship BUT she is a very fun ship to play.

And I would hate to see lines end early for someone who wants to play all the way to Tier 10 but the line ends at say tier 7.

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8 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Also the  Fletcher served in Korea. So that would also be removed with your WW2 ending limit. 

If you want to get really technical, the Benson-class continued to serve until at least 1974.  The Cleveland-class cruiser served until 1979, for example.  Let's not get started on the Iowa-class...

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3 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you want to get really technical, the Benson-class continued to serve until at least 1974.  The Cleveland-class cruiser served until 1979, for example.  Let's not get started on the Iowa-class...

:Smile_great:

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Essex-class, Baltimore-class, Enterprise, Chapayev-class, Mikhail Kutuzov, Kagerō-class; those are some others that had service outside if the war of you decided to go to WWII only.

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21 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

 

Also the  Fletcher served in Korea. So that would also be removed with your WW2 ending limit. 

 

I think his limit is for ships that only served after the end of WW2.

 

Edit: nvm, reading comprehension error.

Edited by Skpstr

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I find the question of "How far should I take my self imposed rules" a bit strange. Play what you want. Not what we want.

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4 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If you want to get really technical, the Benson-class continued to serve until at least 1974.  The Cleveland-class cruiser served until 1979, for example.  Let's not get started on the Iowa-class...

Interesting point is where they are in the game.  Are they in their final configuration or specked out for WWII?  I know I've read discussions on this but don't remember the specifics for any particular ship.  Especially with the Cleveland since it was down Tiered to fill in a gap in the Tech tree.

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They tried that crap in World of Tanks. All that ended up happening was everybody queued as the highest tier. Which in this case would be Yamato. Meaning no battles fired and queues took forever since there were no lower tiers to populate the matches.

 

If you are going historical everything else needs to be random. Aka you click battle and the matchmaker will give you the appropriate ship to fit matchmaking needs.

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2 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Essex-class, Baltimore-class, Enterprise, Chapayev-class, Mikhail Kutuzov, Kagerō-class; those are some others that had service outside if the war of you decided to go to WWII only.

 

If you want to get REALLY technical, how many other Allied ships were actually decommissioned on or before VJ-Day? :Smile_hiding:

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6 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

 

I think his limit is for ships that only served after the end of WW2.

Yep, I believe that was his intent, did the ship serve in WWII or not.  If it did the next question is it presented in the game in a WWII form or does it have post-war alterations to make it competitive at a given tier.

 

If it does have post-war alterations, was the original hull for instance it's WWII form, maybe without the addition of extra AA.

 

Edit:  I shouldn't speak for the OP, just trying to clear up what I think he means.

Edited by 1dennistt
disclaimer

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2 minutes ago, Naughtius_Maximus said:

They tried that crap in World of Tanks. All that ended up happening was everybody queued as the highest tier. Which in this case would be Yamato.

 

If you are going historical everything else needs to be random. Aka you click battle and the matchmaker will give you the appropriate ship to fit matchmaking needs.

 

He's only talking about what ships he will keep, nothing to do with anyone else.

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Personally, the game is hard enough for this potato without worrying about what ship I can keep, and which to get rid of because it is better than it should have been for the time period.  But if he chooses to play with these restrictions on his own game play, and that makes the game more fun for him, I say go for it.

 

I still find this discussion useful, I like knowing more about the ships, which is why I frequent the WIKI pages occasionally.  

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38 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Yes that might mean that a fully equiped ship X may be a T6 and a basic ship Y would also be T6 but again, to my mind that eases the progression of ships that need fully fitting out and for players working up the trees, that would help in that progression and make it faster and still enjoyable rather than jumping to a higher tier in a basic ship. :)

I can see possibilities here for more even match making.

 

This would allow MM more flexibility, a good example might be the Furutaka and Aoba, with a fully upgraded Furutaka being approximately equal to a base Aoba as far as the MM would be concerned. While the upgraded Aoba would be a Tier higher.  There are probably some points where it would break down, simply because there is such a big jump from one tier to the next.  It would be interesting to see how the Tech Tree would look if ships jumped multiple levels. Anyway this subject probably should have its own thread.  

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List looks solid.

 

I assume by WW2 limit we are talking about ships actualy serving in WW2 (doesnt matter that they served longer then that, since that would be many).

 

Some details:

 

German H class (basicly in the H39 design what became the FdG) was actualy laid down. Only minor work was done before the project was frozen for "after the victory" or so...

As someone already pointed out the Tier 9 and 10 dds were actualy laid down and they tried to actualy build them but were either bombed or lacked resources / or the war ended

IJN looks solid. Ibuki was actualy quite far. There is ofc a bunch of gaps (often due to conversions into CVs) in the BB line. And the historical order of the DDs isnt always given

Chapayev... well a few of them were launched even in 41 or so but none was ever completed before 1950 (and therefor commisoned). Sverdlov (Kutuzov) was a full 1950s project.

The russian DDs... lots of paper there but yeah Tashkent was perfectly historical at t9. With all those overlapping project numbers its hard to tell if anything of the rest was actualy ever laid down or even ordered.

RN, funny that the T7 CL was actualy the follow up (and considered a better design) of the T8 historicaly but hey.

For BBs it looks correct. Vanguard was effectivly a Lion with what guns they had sitting around in store. Oddly enough the Lion was basicly a bigger KGV with 406mm guns but the Vanguard used 381s. So basicly like the ingame monarch (just 4x2 instead of 3x3)... no idea why they didnt use the vanguard there. Vanguard however wasnt finished before 46.

Miday class was launched somewere in April 45 but not actualy commised before 10th of September (8 days after the end of WW2). 

Des Moines wasnt launched before 46 and completed/commissioned before 47

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