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Ombromondo

English BB

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I met several British BBs. I must say honestly that they make you want to play. Every shot that fires you and a secure fire, you can not make the damage, quickly recover most of the hull. But where is the pleasure of meeting them?
I will not play Tier X because they are disgusting.
But what testers did they think when they tried it?

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From what I understand, he's saying they seem OP to him and that he understands why people like playing them.  However they are not fun to fight because you are always on fire with no way to effectively counter them.

Edited by Hangoverhomey

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7 hours ago, Hangoverhomey said:

From what I understand, he's saying they seem OP to him and that he understands why people like playing them.  However they are not fun to fight because you are always on fire with no way to effectively counter them.

Thanks. Google translate not ever translate good.

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8 hours ago, Ombromondo said:

I met several British BBs. I must say honestly that they make you want to play. Every shot that fires you and a secure fire, you can not make the damage, quickly recover most of the hull. But where is the pleasure of meeting them?
I will not play Tier X because they are disgusting.
But what testers did they think when they tried it?

Well, as one of the testers, I thought this:

U2OrKRO.jpg

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30 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Well, as one of the testers, I thought this:

U2OrKRO.jpg

 Oh man. But anyhow, Lion seems ok balance wise as long range AP usually doesn't have the ability to cit BB's and her fire threat isn't as extreme as the CQ's. I've had a fair degree of success with my Yamato tanking fire by just stacking Basics of Survivability (-15%), Damage Module 2(?) (-15%), and the signal for an additional -20% fire duration, all told cutting fires that I allow to burn to 1/2 effectiveness, and all of it is light damage and thus healable. But consensus and seemingly Our By Far Favorite Mouse is that CQ is OP and I'm not going to argue with that, which is why I won't be advancing to the CQ anytime soon; my Belfast is gathering dust for the same reason.

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The HE shells and fires set by British BBs isn't anything new.  The thing about battleship caliber HE shells is that if only one battleship is throwing HE?  It's not a problem.  You can tank it and counter battery them with your own shells.  When two or more ships are throwing HE with an intent to keep you ablaze?  Well, then life becomes considerably more miserable.  And that's really where RNBBs are causing issues.  Players used to be ridiculed for tossing HE before out of their Battleships.  It's only with several team mates doing the same that it really becomes over taxing upon the Damage Control Parties of their targets. A Battleship can have up to two blazes burning on their decks without much concern.  Without mitigation, each fire works out to 18% of the ship's total HP lost over 60s.  Take Damage Control Modification 2 or Basics of Survivability and this drops down to 15.3% (both, it drops to 12.9%)  One Repair Party charge heals back 14% of a ship's HP, so two fires isn't terrible and it should be the new modus operandi to let two fires blaze when engaging an HE slinging battleship and use their Damage Control Party when three are set.

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15 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The HE shells and fires set by British BBs isn't anything new.  The thing about battleship caliber HE shells is that if only one battleship is throwing HE?  It's not a problem.  You can tank it and counter battery them with your own shells.  When two or more ships are throwing HE with an intent to keep you ablaze?  Well, then life becomes considerably more miserable.  And that's really where RNBBs are causing issues.  Players used to be ridiculed for tossing HE before out of their Battleships.  It's only with several team mates doing the same that it really becomes over taxing upon the Damage Control Parties of their targets. A Battleship can have up to two blazes burning on their decks without much concern.  Without mitigation, each fire works out to 18% of the ship's total HP lost over 60s.  Take Damage Control Modification 2 or Basics of Survivability and this drops down to 15.3% (both, it drops to 12.9%)  One Repair Party charge heals back 14% of a ship's HP, so two fires isn't terrible and it should be the new modus operandi to let two fires blaze when engaging an HE slinging battleship and use their Damage Control Party when three are set.

Add to that the ridiculous 1/4 penetration and extremely high per shell damage...

It's not exactly "rare" to see an Orion hit another BB for 10k~12k damage... with HE

Hitting ships with 10k HE salvos used to be a thing that Zao did, and that's a T10 that can very rarely pull that off.

Edited by MrDeaf

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13 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

so two fires isn't terrible and it should be the new modus operandi to let two fires blaze when engaging an HE slinging battleship and use their Damage Control Party when three are set.

Good point, too many BB players click that repair party way too soon and become gutted when another fire or 2 starts, i have noticed this in Mid Tier.

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4 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

itting ships with 10k HE salvos used to be a thing that Zao did, and that's a T10 that can very rarely pull that off.

The T4 Ishizuchi can do 10k HE salvos.

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Just now, 13Assassins said:

The T4 Ishizuchi can do 10k HE salvos.

  • Does Ishizuchi have 1/4 HE penetration?
  • Does Ishizuchi have 40% fire chance?
  • Does Ishizuchi lolcit with HE?
  • Does Ishizuchi have 5900 dmg per shell, resulting in a theoretical 59,000 dmg against cruisers and carriers and 19,666dmg against BBs and DDs?

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2 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:
  • Does Ishizuchi have 1/4 HE penetration?
  • Does Ishizuchi have 40% fire chance?
  • Does Ishizuchi lolcit with HE?
  • Does Ishizuchi have 5900 dmg per shell, resulting in a theoretical 59,000 dmg against cruisers and carriers and 19,666dmg against BBs and DDs?

Don't make the mistake of thinking that HE performance is limited to the Royal Navy.

Ishizuchi has the same 10 gun broadside with 305mm guns.  She can "lul citadel" most of the same cruisers that the Royal Navy Battleships can with their 51mm of penetration.  Her shells hit for comparable damage (only 200hp less per penetration) and her fire chance per shell is still a very respectable 32% chance per hit.

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1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:
  • Does Ishizuchi have 1/4 HE penetration?   --- No
  • Does Ishizuchi have 40% fire chance?  --  possible 34.5% Ishizuchi fire 2.4 shells per min whereas Orion only 2, so I would say pretty close to Orion fire chance.
  • Does Ishizuchi lolcit with HE?     ----    Yes
  • Does Ishizuchi have 5900 dmg per shell, resulting in a theoretical 59,000 dmg against cruisers and carriers and 19,666dmg against BBs and DDs?   ---  5200 HE and 8000 AP, so not far off.

 

I am thinking of buying an Ishizuchi at some time, only when I feel the need to.

  • Cool 1

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  I grasp the concept of HE cascade or overload on a ships damicon, but while I agree to some extent, 3 or 4 ships shooting HE at a target isn't too unlike normal focus fire, and it is 3 or 4 ships that aren't shooting at other targets, thus target ship maybe considered tanking.  I wonder if there is a threshold such as you allude to LWM, where a certain amount of HE focus starts to eliminate ships more quickly; if so, has anyone seen a Battleship Division use it effectively? When I am in Zao for instance, I routinely shift fire if I can once I have 2 fires, reasoning that restriking an area already alight is a waste of fire chance. But 3 or 4 fires with damicon cooling down is a real mother IF you can hit the ends of the target. I don't know. HE focus fire has diminishing returns fire probability wise that AP focus fire doesn't.

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6 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The HE shells and fires set by British BBs isn't anything new...

 

While this is true, I think the impact of higher fire chance from UK BB HE shell (especially at high tiers) is that you can consistently get multiple fires with 1 salvo on top of the elevated HE damage. In other BBs you can expect to set 1 fire per HE salvo where as now you can expect to set 2+ fires with a UK BB. This makes it viable to trade two consecutive AP salvos for two consecutive HE salvos with a high chance of setting a double perma fire. The odds of setting multiple perma fires are even higher if you have coordinated shooting against a single target. This IMO is what makes HE firing UK BBs the new black. I honestly think it UK BB fire chance can use a nerf or make fire prevention capt skill be cheaper to counter additional fires being set.

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1 hour ago, NCC81701 said:

 

While this is true, I think the impact of higher fire chance from UK BB HE shell (especially at high tiers) is that you can consistently get multiple fires with 1 salvo on top of the elevated HE damage. In other BBs you can expect to set 1 fire per HE salvo where as now you can expect to set 2+ fires with a UK BB. This makes it viable to trade two consecutive AP salvos for two consecutive HE salvos with a high chance of setting a double perma fire. The odds of setting multiple perma fires are even higher if you have coordinated shooting against a single target. This IMO is what makes HE firing UK BBs the new black. I honestly think it UK BB fire chance can use a nerf or make fire prevention capt skill be cheaper to counter additional fires being set.

Yeah a guaranteed 1-3 fires every salvo isn't a good gameplay mechanic, it's far too easily abused.  To compound it even more, it's equally effective against everything.

The amount of times I have watched enemies get hit at 15km with large damage/crits and 2-3 fires, repairing "no choice" followed by getting hit again with another 2-3 fires and a bunch more damage and crits... it's just wrong.

I honestly don't know what WG was thinking.  It's just way to consistent/dependable.

Edited by Hangoverhomey

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I've only made it to KGV (T7) and find AP the most used (and most effective) option in my experience.  

And the Nelson AP...I find it very effective as well.  The ability to throw NINE while angled is nice.  Those poor cruisers.

QE?  AP as well.

Iron Duke?  AP too.

 

The only difference in the RN line is the AP-to-HE switch threshold.  The conditions in which a switch is warranted come sooner with the RN line. But the overall superiority of AP is still king, even with the RN fire breathers.  

Again, this is through T7 from personal experience.  We'll see as I move up the line.

 

On the receiving end at T10, I haven't noticed getting burned down by a CQ...but I run a lot of fire mitigation on my top tier BBs.  Either that, or I just haven't encountered enough to notice.

 

Also, there is the tier difference issue.  A T10's fire chance increases when targeting low tier ships.  A high fire chance T10 firing on a T8...that's gonna hurt.  But then again, so is AP.

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