Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
IronWolfV

WG fixing symptoms, not root causes

89 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

6,799
[SYN]
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
30,523 posts
4,423 battles

Title says it all. WG and we as players keep harping on "buff this or nerf that or change this!" Many times these are mere symptoms. Why not treat the actual cause?

 

Example. The proposed change for BB shells vs DDs. I find stupid on many levels. Chiefly if there's a problem with how well DDs are surviving, let's fix their overall defenses/survival, not just treat 1 symptom and think that's really going to make a difference.

 

There are instances where we as players call out root causes "cough"carrier ui"cough" and WG has yet to change it. Other root causes that WG is just either ignoring or just beating around the bush:

IJN DDs

AA mechanics

Spotting overall(includes radar and hydro)

Power creep. This one is getting out of control and we the players are partly responsible.

Very simplistic game that doesn't allow for a lot of variety and national uniqueness. This is also combined with power creep.

 

I could go on but the overall point is that too many times we're looking at just symptoms and not the reason behind them that's the actual concern.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
140
[FORM]
Members
253 posts
4,806 battles

The root of many problems in this game is over the fact so many do not take the time to learn how to play it well, learn the mechanics or just plain do not care about anything related teamwork. BB players who refuse to WASD getting killed by torpedoes then cry nerf DD/CV. Other classes have the same issue of players not learning how to play the class correctly and then cry things are OP because they died to it. Are there some things that need to be reworked, yes. Is it hard for WG to figure out what really needs rework vs players just are not taking the time to learn how to deal with it, big time. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28
[-AIM-]
Members
342 posts
1,023 battles

SOme are the game itself and problems that have been around since the start for many like the compresstion of ranges but not penetration or the fact some ships don't even have the right value of armor in the right location or the fact that they use another piece of armor as a thing for the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
137
[MIA-A]
Members
341 posts
9,679 battles

There are also a lot of crap players that don't want to learn the mechanics. If you can grind up a tier and not have to meet a learning threshold the games are going to suck. I don't get any enjoyment from them due to useless players that don't care about having fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
584
[PVE]
Members
1,594 posts
6,705 battles

And...WG will respond to all of the above and other posts related to the same thing with this....

'this is designed to be an arcade game and not a sim, therefore we have more than enough latitude to get away with whatever we want to get away with, we are therefore not required to be any where near accurate in regards to any of the issues or complaints'.....'and besides, as everyone knows, we are in it for the money not historical accuracy, as long as there are those willing to shell out money, we will keep taking it, the core root of any issues be damned'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
688
[PVE]
Members
2,172 posts
5,101 battles

You guys are making a few mistakes with your suggestions and comments. First off, this is a game. Nobody is getting paid to study YouTube videos or read instructional info. People play this to relax, not to learn another lifetime occupation. Some of you may be those "neckbreards" that live in a parent's basement and do nothing but play this game 18 hours a day. Most of us AREN'T. We have other things in life with much higher priority than some silly pixel ship game. You may believe that propaganda that WG spews out about WOWS being mainly people in their 20s-40s. That simply doesn't wash when you get in a game and read the chat stuff. It's mainly kids. You can see it from the spewing of profanities and petty-[edited]arguments that arise, along with the name-calling. Basically, it's the same exact people who play World of Tanks.

 

Teamwork? That's a joke in WOWS just like in WOT. Only teamwork I have seen is when people division. Otherwise, it's every man for himself. I mean even the word "team" hardly applies to WG's games. You are thrown together with a bunch or random players of greatly varying ages and abilities and goals, that never practiced together, and may even have chat turned off. Now how in the blue blazes can you call THAT a "team"? You gonna meet those guys at the bar or soda shop after the battle and discuss things? I don't think so. Just relax....chill out. If you are frustrated, take a break from the game. That's what I'm doing. I'm playing WOT until WG gets their crappy servers fixed. But for cripes sakes stop wishing and asking for people to "git gud". Some are even playing with handicaps and wounds they got in a REAL war. You gonna rant and scream at them? If so, then you are one real ****head. 

Edited by Deputy276
  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,799
[SYN]
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
30,523 posts
4,423 battles
10 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

You guys are making a few mistakes with your suggestions and comments. First off, this is a game. Nobody is getting paid to study YouTube videos or read instructional info. People play this to relax, not to learn another lifetime occupation. Some of you may be those "neckbreards" that live in a parent's basement and do nothing but play this game 18 hours a day. Most of us AREN'T. We have other things in life with much higher priority than some silly pixel ship game. You may believe that propaganda that WG spews out about WOWS being mainly people in their 20s-40s. That simply doesn't wash when you get in a game and read the chat stuff. It's mainly kids. You can see it from the spewing of profanities and petty-[edited]arguments that arise, along with the name-calling. Basically, it's the same exact people who play World of Tanks.

 

Teamwork? That's a joke in WOWS just like in WOT. Only teamwork I have seen is when people division. Otherwise, it's every man for himself. I mean even the word "team" hardly applies to WG's games. You are thrown together with a bunch or random players of greatly varying ages and abilities and goals, that never practiced together, and may even have chat turned off. Now how in the blue blazes can you call THAT a "team"? You gonna meet those guys at the bar or soda shop after the battle and discuss things? I don't think so. Just realx....chill out. If you are frustrated, take a break from the game. That's what I'm doing. I'm playing WOT until WG gets their crappy servers fixed. But for cripes sakes stop wishing and asking for people to "git gud". Some are even playing with handicaps and wounds they got in a REAL war. You gonna rant and scream at them? If so, then you are one real ****head. 

Umm you're wrong on the kid angle. I see plenty of 20 and 30 year olds mouthing off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,554 posts
6,867 battles
29 minutes ago, Judge_Doom said:

And...WG will respond to all of the above and other posts related to the same thing with this....

'this is designed to be an arcade game and not a sim, therefore we have more than enough latitude to get away with whatever we want to get away with, we are therefore not required to be any where near accurate in regards to any of the issues or complaints'.....'and besides, as everyone knows, we are in it for the money not historical accuracy, as long as there are those willing to shell out money, we will keep taking it, the core root of any issues be damned'.

I take exception to that as a former game and scenario designer myself. I have no doubt these designers and developers are history grognards attempting to make this as 'reality-derived" as possible. It's not an 'arcade game"--that also irks me when I hear it. It's not a naval sim but they go the extra yard to make it as 'reality-derived' as is possible. They don't have to painstakingly model all the historical parameters and specifics that they do... but they choose to. Hats off. The passion for this comes first when you are that deep into it, making money if you finally do is fine too. Most don't make much, it's a niche market. Maybe they are at this point, tons of it, maybe not--I hope so in order to see WoWs progress and evolve. Stay positive about it--really most people have no clue re the trollish amount of work and playtesting that goes into this.

That said the game has to trump history (can we ever use this fecking word at every turn without thinking of the scarlet orange pimpernel? I dare to) because they are setting up a very volatile system for a notoriously fractious picky crowd--but far more gentile than WoT so far, I do hope it stays that way. You can never playtest enough before you release a ship or whatever your game hinges upon and that's ok... this shark tank will sort out shortcomings of OPness in a hurry. You all work for them in that sense. :)

Edited by Stauffenberg44
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
688
[PVE]
Members
2,172 posts
5,101 battles
7 hours ago, IronWolfV said:

Umm you're wrong on the kid angle. I see plenty of 20 and 30 year olds mouthing off.

Really? You are able to see their ages from just peering at their ships? Okay Svenghali...whatever you say. :Smile_facepalm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
688
[PVE]
Members
2,172 posts
5,101 battles
7 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

I take exception to that as a former game and scenario designer myself. I have no doubt these designers and developers are history grognards attempting to make this as 'reality-derived" as possible. It's not an 'arcade game"--that also irks me when I hear it. It's not a naval sim but they go the extra yard to make it as 'reality-derived' as is possible. They don't have to painstakingly model all the historical parameters and specifics that they do... but they choose to. Hats off. The passion for this comes first when you are that deep into it, making money if you finally do is fine too. Most don't make much, it's a niche market. Maybe they are at this point, tons of it, maybe not--I hope so in order to see WoWs progress and evolve. Stay positive about it--really most people have no clue re the trollish amount of work and playtesting that goes into this.

That said the game has to trump history (can we ever use this fecking word at every turn without thinking of the scarlet orange pimpernel? I dare to) because they are setting up a very volatile system for a notoriously fractious picky crowd--but far more gentile than WoT so far, I do hope it stays that way. You can never playtest enough before you release a ship or whatever your game hinges upon and that's ok... this shark tank will sort out shortcomings of OPness in a hurry. You all work for them in that sense. :)

With you about that "arcade game" cap. I turn red every time I hear it. NO arcade in this universe has anything even remotely similar to WOT or WOWS.

The ships certainly do LOOK pretty realistic, I give them that. People have to understand that WG is a business. And they stay in business by making $$$. LOTS of $$$. Trying to please EVERYONE is an exercise in futility. Every time they make a tiny change, you'd think it was the end of the world as we know it. Nobody wants their favorite ship changed in ANY way. People just need to repeat over and over to themselves...it's only a game, it's only a game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,883 posts
1,365 battles

DD's die to quickly?  yeah, when a T10 DD has less then like half the health of a T3 BB, what could possibly go wrong...

The "Health by displacement" I think doesnt work quite so hot.  Giving BBs 30-90k, while even a T10 Cruiser barely breaks 30k, no problem could possibly occur with that...

Then you have fire that just burns crapto the ground with not enough defensive features, not enough DCP/RP systems on ships, and non on DDs. 

You wanna improve the durability and toughness of DD/CA, you increase health massively, like 75% of a BB health for CA and 50% of a BB health for DDs.  100k on the T10 BBs would be 75k for the crusiers, 50k for the DDs.  It would make them mcuh tougher.

Next, actually give the DD/CA DCP/RP and overhaul DCP/RP to be useful far more often....then rework fire and flooding so its not quite so black n white.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[FOXEH]
[FOXEH]
Members
1,194 posts
4,125 battles
9 hours ago, IvanPonomarev said:

There are also a lot of crap players that don't want to learn the mechanics. If you can grind up a tier and not have to meet a learning threshold the games are going to suck. I don't get any enjoyment from them due to useless players that don't care about having fun.

There also a lot of crap mechanics that should be reworked as well.  Bow on, in reverse, and angled using only 1/2 of the guns being just one example.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,252
[RIPQP]
Members
3,708 posts
14,527 battles
5 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

There also a lot of crap mechanics that should be reworked as well.  Bow on, in reverse, and angled using only 1/2 of the guns being just one example.  

 This is not a mechanic, it is a tactical decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[FOXEH]
[FOXEH]
Members
1,194 posts
4,125 battles
1 minute ago, m373x said:

 This is not a mechanic, it is a tactical decision.

It's a poor game mechanic.  Apparently WG went to a book store, bought every book on naval tactics when they started coding them game, and their first act was to drop the books in the trash  then start coding.  

They might as well make the bathtub mission the full game with this crap meta....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SYN]
Members
234 posts
3,639 battles
53 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

With you about that "arcade game" cap. I turn red every time I hear it. NO arcade in this universe has anything even remotely similar to WOT or WOWS.

The ships certainly do LOOK pretty realistic, I give them that. People have to understand that WG is a business. And they stay in business by making $$$. LOTS of $$$. Trying to please EVERYONE is an exercise in futility. Every time they make a tiny change, you'd think it was the end of the world as we know it. Nobody wants their favorite ship changed in ANY way. People just need to repeat over and over to themselves...it's only a game, it's only a game. 

Amen, brother!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,252
[RIPQP]
Members
3,708 posts
14,527 battles
8 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

It's a poor game mechanic.  Apparently WG went to a book store, bought every book on naval tactics when they started coding them game, and their first act was to drop the books in the trash  then start coding.  

They might as well make the bathtub mission the full game with this crap meta....

 Naval tactics from the past were bad and wrong. This is the reason battleships are gone forever, they were useless with those lame broadside tactics. Video games are the pioneers of new naval tactics and navies around the world should take notes. Staying bow in presents a much smaller profile which may bring battleships again into war conflicts around the globe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
154
[FOXEH]
[FOXEH]
Members
1,194 posts
4,125 battles

Dumbest post ever.  Goes against every real world tactical law known to humankind.  Go do some reading, you haven't a clue about this subject.  

Show me one instance where a battleship engaged in combat bow on, in reverse.  

You can't, because it never happened.   It's a stupid tactic caused by a stupid and ill-conceived game mechanic.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,309
[-TAB-]
Members
1,597 posts
5,126 battles
1 hour ago, Deputy276 said:

With you about that "arcade game" crap.

Every time they make a tiny change, you'd think it was the end of the world as we know it.

Nobody wants their favorite ship changed in ANY way. 

'arcade game' is now an excuse for crap I use at work.

it IS the end of the world as we know it. I ground up like a crazed beaver to the shima, just after the GN (great nerf). 3 weeks later, when they found me, huddled in apocolytic shock, they all understood.

this is true. except for guns firing a bit faster, armor that works, more fires, lower detection range, and a pirate captain.

Edited by not_acceptable
they keep editing the best part of everything i write, like just now they did it again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,497
Beta Testers
6,868 posts
4,189 battles
36 minutes ago, KnightFandragon said:

DD's die to quickly?  yeah, when a T10 DD has less then like half the health of a T3 BB, what could possibly go wrong...

The "Health by displacement" I think doesnt work quite so hot.  Giving BBs 30-90k, while even a T10 Cruiser barely breaks 30k, no problem could possibly occur with that...

Then you have fire that just burns crapto the ground with not enough defensive features, not enough DCP/RP systems on ships, and non on DDs. 

You wanna improve the durability and toughness of DD/CA, you increase health massively, like 75% of a BB health for CA and 50% of a BB health for DDs.  100k on the T10 BBs would be 75k for the crusiers, 50k for the DDs.  It would make them mcuh tougher.

Next, actually give the DD/CA DCP/RP and overhaul DCP/RP to be useful far more often....then rework fire and flooding so its not quite so black n white.

 

First of all, health is a fairly minor factor for survivability.  Presence or lack of a citadel is bigger.  As is the size and location of the citadel if one exists.  Think about it, if you have 30k health and take only overpens you take the same number of shells on target to kill as a ship that always takes a citadel when hit with 300k health.  Health matters, but pay attention to your potential damage numbers after a match.  There is not a 1 to 1 relationship between ship health and potential damage by a long shot.  I've had 3mil potential damage games in a DD, that's not bad for a BB.

 

Secondly, a T10 server doesn't "barely break 30k", the lowest is over 40k and the highest is well over 60.  Average is right around 50k.

 

Third, T10 BBs don't top out at 90k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,252
[RIPQP]
Members
3,708 posts
14,527 battles
6 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

Dumbest post ever.  Goes against every real world tactical law known to humankind.  Go do some reading, you haven't a clue about this subject.  

Show me one instance where a battleship engaged in combat bow on, in reverse.  

You can't, because it never happened.   It's a stupid tactic caused by a stupid and ill-conceived game mechanic.  

 It is a brilliant tactic but none of the sailors in the past thought of it. If HMS Hood was bow in she wouldn't get detonated, but instead she went full broadside and got [edited] slapped into oblivion. This is why they had to scrap or turn battleships into museums, this is best suited for them. Bow in is the future, bruh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,309
[-TAB-]
Members
1,597 posts
5,126 battles
8 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

Dumbest post ever.  Goes against every real world tactical law known to humankind.  Go do some reading, you haven't a clue about this subject.  

Show me one instance where a battleship engaged in combat bow on, in reverse.  

You can't, because it never happened.   It's a stupid tactic caused by a stupid and ill-conceived game mechanic.  

no. I've seen far dumber posts, like yours, the one I quoted and am responding to. good suggestion, I'm going to read some admiral hornblower!

played 10 battles in my kurfurst tonite. every single battle had one of those. you ok?? 

I just did, because it happens constantly. please calm down, it's ok. we can't like you any less !! no pressure....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
220
[P2W]
Members
686 posts
41 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

It's a poor game mechanic.  Apparently WG went to a book store, bought every book on naval tactics when they started coding them game, and their first act was to drop the books in the trash  then start coding.  

They might as well make the bathtub mission the full game with this crap meta....

Hey when is the bathtub mission coming back? That was fun! :etc_red_button:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
132
[SIMP]
Members
818 posts
8,232 battles
50 minutes ago, m373x said:

 This is not a mechanic, it is a tactical decision.

Actually, it is a tactical decision based on the bad mechanics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×