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State of the Game ( and where it's headed)

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So, after reading the forums and watching the drama unfold over RN BBs and AP vs DD I feel like we as a community need a realization here. 

 

I honestly think players need to stop pointing fingers at specific ships for them underperforming and start accepting the fact that maybe they're the only common problem in why their performance isn't where they want it to be. Take me for example. I know I suck at CVs. Sure I might try them out once in a blue moon and it never fails I hit nothing but the AS specced CVs.  I might [edited] about it but I shelf CV play and play something I am good at.

 

So many players that are below average in a specific ship go to the forums and complain "omg xxxxx is OP. It just one shot me". They never give a replay, or even state the specifics that they over extended, got radared, hydro, etc. Once that posts hits all the forumnites are quick to the special snowflakes defense because they saw it in a video out performing in a unicums hands. Look at the CQ that Flamu called the Mega Zao. He played 23 games before posting that video, took his best game and made a video stating it was OP. All the sheep are following the shepherd and pilling on the bandwagon with OMG it really is OP. 

 
AP damage vs DDs. Flamu does it again. Post a video of him catching DDs making mistakes, and turning away from his shots. wth??? Of course a shell traveling the length of the ship is going to be a full pen. I see no problem that is going to warrant the nerf that is about to come from it.
 
The complaints about smoke have been heard and that is going to be nerfed. Sure you won't have BBs or even heavy cruisers sitting in smoke anymore. What your going to have is stagnate game play of long range sniping BBs and cruisers who are going to do them same. We have already seen the are BBs killing this game. What do you think is about to happen with all the changes coming? More players are going to switch to BBs because it will soon be the best way to deal damage. 
 
Love it, hate it, I don't care but that is my rant in a nutshell. 
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The pathway to self improvement in this game is admitting you made a mistake and determine how to avoid making the same mistake in the future. Potatoes never learn and for some, they don't care to learn, they just want to play which is ok too. But as the OP has stated, to say a given ship is overpowered because it caught you with your pants down isn't going to help you improve. Nerfing the ship which caught you will not make you a better player. I agree with the OP 100%.

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 DD wise, 1 year ago or so we had stealth fire and less sonar/radar saturation. If you accept this as a base line, DD's have become more fragile, going from unseen and capping, say, to seen and deleted in some really short times. I can and do 1 shot destroyers with my Montana, even over 10 km a couple times. When playing a destroyer though, I'm okay generally with BB AP, I just feel destroyers need a little help, some small dispersion de buff (incoming) or something.

 As far as the new "Fire Meta" and battleships, I find it fairly easy to skill/flag/module against it so far and am willing to see where it goes.

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So what happens when its solidly proven by statistics and non biased players?
Cause there are strong and weak ships in the game and balance is something that has to constantly adapt to it.
Take US CVs for instance, its been well known for years that a change is needed.
With the new UK BB's its pretty apparent that when every one of them is leading the damage catagory over every ship in the game that something might need to be adjusted.

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13 minutes ago, Bronco said:

The pathway to self improvement in this game is admitting you made a mistake and determine how to avoid making the same mistake in the future. Potatoes never learn and for some, they don't care to learn, they just want to play which is ok too. But as the OP has stated, to say a given ship is overpowered because it caught you with your pants down isn't going to help you improve. Nerfing the ship which caught you will not make you a better player. I agree with the OP 100%.

Yeah I agree, if a ship is a bit OP Nerfing it is indeed not the answer since everything still has a weakness and you have access to the same power yourself usually.

Smoke is a great example of a game mechanic some say is too OP, but it is a weapon you easily can use against the enemy using the smoke. Such as the fact if the enemy that layed smoke is inexperienced they will sit nice and still and not realize Radar or hydro can see through the smoke or my favorite trick they will not see incoming torps that you send in an attempt to hit them because the smoke all too often is double blind element.

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15 minutes ago, MountainManxDan said:

So what happens when its solidly proven by statistics and non biased players?
 

+1 OP

Then it will be adjusted, but NOT by the stats you see on Warships today or by playing 3 or 4 battles, or even re-quoting what someone else thinks about something or even by screaming on forums or even by what a favorite CC has to say about a ship., by WG stats, which are way more comprehensive..  showing things like..  stats for the top players, the mid players and the potatoe players.  things that we only wish we had to be able to asses things..  and whining threads do not stats make..  No-one in this game, apart from WG has the stats that decisions can be made from, and this is also linked into their overall aims and objectives.

Not having a go here..  just pointing out that whilst everyone thinks they are an expert, everyone only has anecdotal evidence and a LIMITED set of stats to work from.

You and I have NO way of knowing from the stats on Warships today whether..

1)  They are even right based on their current performance and operation.

2)  What their true breakdown is.

3)  Whether they deviate from the design parameters enough to even look at.

Whilst I agree, there has been power creep since Open Beta, I see very few ships that are equivalently less or more effective than they were then.

M

 

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I think it has more to do with new ships being introduced do not fit into the way people believe the game should be played. Instead of learning to adapt to new strategy, people merely cry out on the forums of how these play styles are overpowered. Figure in popular streamers as you mentioned effectively taking highlights of a string of games for an exaggerated claim, and it creates a breeding ground for a hive mind on the forums demanding these unjust changes to be applied. For whatever reason this applies predominately to the battleship community. Anyone who says otherwise is usually heckled as ignorant or merely meme'd into extinction.

There are some things that we all wish we could change in the game primarily to our benefit. Most of that would inherently break the game. For me, it is Russian everything with the ability to BBQ anything in a very large radius of fire. Instead of whining about it, you adapt your strategy to avoid the situation. Make sure to engage them at more opportune moments, and dump some credits into (relatively cheap) premium consumables.

Same goes for firing in smoke. While I dismiss with the premise of destroyers doing it as selfish and fairly sleazy, it is something that exists in the game. Take advantage of the red's lack of vision, silence your guns, or wait till the smoke clears.

For multiple ships in smoke, torpedoes exist for a reason. Problems solved.

 

If a particular parameter of a ship(s) dictates the game play in a fashion where few other ships can negate this dictation, then change must be heavily considered.

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Im down for whatever. If WG thinks that removing some ships abilities to fire from smoke will fix their game then whatever. Fact is NA players will NEVER adjust their play style. The game does not reward you for being a big pansy and sitting on the edge of the map in your BB, but players will do that no matter what, because actualy moving into effective range in your BB requires you to look at the mini map to see what you may be up against and not just go forward at max speed. If you really want to fix the camping BB issue then you need to remove the flashy screen feedback when you get hit so people will actually drive forward. The sheep do not understand game mechanics, they understand omg explosions and flashy lights = bad, run away.  They don't think hmmm... there are 2 cruisers only 14km away and 1 dd in smoke spamming me for nearly 0 dmg. If I charge the smoke and focus down a cruiser I should be able to absorb the HE dmg while I kill that CA, prepare to dodge the torps then repair any fires/flooding and heal back 40% of the damage I took while my secondaries finish the enemy DD and I rotate out behind some cover to repair up so I can rinse and repeat. That is not how the avg NA 80 IQ player's brain works. WG can not balance their game around stupidity and failure to play their actual game. They are forced to balance a game for people who have sub 20% hit ratios, don't adjust their speed, and have no concept of how balance taking damage to deal damage. 

 

It has become clear to me that WG as a company is not capable of producing a AAA esports worthy game. As such Im just going to enjoy WoWs as I can, they have a dumb ranked system, they punish anyone for division play with horrible match making 8 out of 10 games and they don't seem to understand how to create a match making system that can really support their grind based business model.   

 

 

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BBs can take off half to 75% of a DDs health regardless of angle.

 

BB AP needs to be changed only for DDs, it doesn't need to affect Cruisers.

 

Its either that or something needs to be done with DD armor against BB AP specifically.

Edited by Wulfgarn
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  Just a general point albeit minor, higher damage stats for HE based ships represents some fire damage, and fire damage is 100% fixable by Repair Party. So while damage is damage and forcing out damicon is always good, a higher damage stat for a fire based ship is not what it seems by itself. 100k of AP damage is always a lot worse than 100k of fire damage.

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4 minutes ago, PolarWolf32 said:

 Instead of learning to adapt to new strategy, people merely cry out on the forums of how these play styles are overpowered. Figure in popular streamers as you mentioned effectively taking highlights of a string of games for an exaggerated claim, and it creates a breeding ground for a hive mind on the forums demanding these unjust changes to be applied.

 

Let me give you another example...

When ships are in testing, a lot of data is gathered from those ships being used on live servers.  A LOT of matches are played on live to give a significant number of battles.

Now here's an issue..  Theres a LOT of people who when they see a ship in testing are all..   oh new ship, lets kill it.. or  A tester has something I don't. I'm a gonna kill it fast etc etc.

Take any ship..  when tested on live servers, there is an enourmous amount of lets kill it  and teams would YOLO to get it.  If you had then compared the stats of those same testers playing same tier ships against the new ship at same tier, you would have seen that average damage and average win rate was less than existing ships.  Therefore, by inference, it seemed that ship was weak by comparison.   In fact, not true, That ship was only weak because of its stats as being focus fired on live servers...  hence it needed buffs before release.

Once it HAD been released, the stats evened out and so begins power creep.

Theres SO many factors that influence balancing and mechanics in this game that there will NEVER be true balance, but theres two ways to play the game...   for one..  fun in which case, the balance, whils important, is almost secondary in that if you have fun playing a ship, thats the goal..  personally, I still enjoy playing Krispy Kreme because everyone thinks it's so bad..   then second theres the min-maxers that ONLY want wins and stats.. and to them that is the area where they only want to play the most OP ship in a line that works for them.

Those two aims are as irreconcilable as could be, and as such, balance will NEVER be good enough for everyone.

At the end of the day, you really have two choices....    

1)  Accept what WG does and live with it..

2)  Play a different game.

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3 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

BBs can take off half to 75% of a DDs health regardless of angle.

 

DD's can take all of a BB's health regardless of angle with TT's..

What's you're point?

M

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3 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

BBs can take off half to 75% of a DDs health regardless of angle.

 

BB AP needs to be changed only for DDs, it doesn't need to affect Cruisers.

 

Its either that or something needs to be done with DD armor against BB AP specifically.

And then the cruisers are going to start complaining about getting insta-deleted by Battleships.

 

Stop angling that allows you to receive regular pen damage by BBs.

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2 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

DD's can take all of a BB's health regardless of angle with TT's..

What's you're point?

M

Depends, what tier are you talking?

 

There where other things I said in my post that should make my point. :Smile_smile:

Edited by Wulfgarn

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 average dmg done by DD is about half typical  BB's health for its tier without repair.       TT are not an issue unless you are total potato.

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Cruisers will always be the best and most reliable way to farm damage, especially tier 10 ones.

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Just now, MaliceA4Thought said:

 Depends, what tier are you talking, you started the side topic distraction.

M

Wow, distraction eh?

OP was talking about DD's and AP at the start of the thread. Dunno how what I said was a topic distraction. :Smile_smile:

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14 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

BBs can take off half to 75% of a DDs health regardless of angle.

When your getting hit by a 11-18 inch shell what do you expect? Even Overpenning Ap will cause huge damage to a DB. Before you say that that is [edited] the USS Johnston and Samuel B Roberts would like a word with you on that when Kongo gave them a nice slap at Leyte Gulf.

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8 minutes ago, Roadrider7021 said:

  Just a general point albeit minor, higher damage stats for HE based ships represents some fire damage, and fire damage is 100% fixable by Repair Party. So while damage is damage and forcing out damicon is always good, a higher damage stat for a fire based ship is not what it seems by itself. 100k of AP damage is always a lot worse than 100k of fire damage.

yeah, uh, what if you haven't got repair party, or your max HP is under 100k? fatal damage is repairable, in port

 

5 minutes ago, BrentD15 said:

And then the cruisers are going to start complaining about getting insta-deleted by Battleships.

 

Stop angling that allows you to receive regular pen damage by BBs.

you can take a cit hit in most CAs regardless of angle. I got deleted in my zao dead on to a Missouri at 13k. this was in the middle of turn, in an effort to get behind an island, BTW. I despise the whole bow blade crapwith a passion. mush Morton would never do it.

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1 minute ago, Wulfgarn said:

Wow, distraction eh?

OP was talking about DD's and AP at the start of the thread. Dunno how what I said was a topic distraction. :Smile_smile:

you missed the second sentance and proved his point.

M

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Just now, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

When your getting hit by a 11-18 inch shell what do you expect? Even Overpenning Ap will cause huge damage to a Dd. Before you say that that is [edited] the USS Johnston and Samuel B Roberts would like a word with you on that when Kongo gave them a nice bitchslap.

I agree with Flamu when someone responds like you did. This isn't as simulation. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

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1 minute ago, not_acceptable said:

you can take a cit hit in most CAs regardless of angle. I got deleted in my zao dead on to a Missouri at 13k. this was in the middle of turn, in an effort to get behind an island, BTW. I despise the whole bow blade crapwith a passion. mush Morton would never do it.

Right.....because IRL BBs were designed to destroy cruiser and BB's or anything....Oh wait....They were.

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