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WidochMeirker

Bayern has me at a loss

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As the title says, I've all but given up on the Bayern.  I don't understand why the ship is so popular.  In my experience so far, it can't hit anything outside of 8km even when your aim is right because of the dispersion.  I've not found it to be a very tanky battleship yet because it's so easy to penetrate even when angled.  Ships get 8k and higher hits all the time on it.  I think the most difficult part of the ship though for me is that it simply doesn't do any damage.  The accuracy is so bad that unless you manage to push into 8km or closer you'll lose most engagements.  By the time you do get to 8km, you've lost half your health because the armor is so bad.  How do people play this ship?  What's the trick?  I'm getting quite frustrated with it.

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The armor on Bayern is very troll versus AP and even cruiser HE.

 

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4 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

The armor on Bayern is very troll versus AP and even cruiser HE.

 

By troll you mean takes lots of damage or something else?  My Bayern gets the crap kicked out of it damage wise.  Does angling work different on it?  I love seeing Bayerns in my cruisers because I can damage them.

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The captain's skills have a lot to do in terms of how well you play.  Bayern has some serious troll armor and especially bow on. I was at the end of a battle against a Colorado and went bow on with him.  He couldn't pen me or do serious damage that he had to resort to HE. Good firing range is 12-15km and it also had decent secondaries. Just takes practice.  Don't get discourage.  It's meant to be a brawler so try playing it that way and generally stay bow on and you should be fine.

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45 minutes ago, WidochMeirker said:

As the title says, I've all but given up on the Bayern.  I don't understand why the ship is so popular.  In my experience so far, it can't hit anything outside of 8km even when your aim is right because of the dispersion.  I've not found it to be a very tanky battleship yet because it's so easy to penetrate even when angled.  Ships get 8k and higher hits all the time on it.  I think the most difficult part of the ship though for me is that it simply doesn't do any damage.  The accuracy is so bad that unless you manage to push into 8km or closer you'll lose most engagements.  By the time you do get to 8km, you've lost half your health because the armor is so bad.  How do people play this ship?  What's the trick?  I'm getting quite frustrated with it.

When it comes to German BB's taking damage and questioning if their armor is any good, there's something you should know.  People have or are coming to learn that the place to aim on German BBs is above the belt.  Aim for the superstructure or at the top edge of the hull.  Accept that you won't be getting citadels on German BB's and go for the consistent damage of multiple regular penning hits.  Of course, this is a slower way to take down a battleship, but it's better than bouncing shot after shot on their armor belt.

As for the Bayern's guns, yes the dispersion is weak.  When you're at mid range, aim the best you can and just accept that the Bayern isn't particularly accurate.  And when you have the chance to close the range, do so, since your guns will start getting more accurate and if you get close enough, you can start engaging with your secondaries too.

The Bayern may not be the best tier 6 BB, but it's really not that bad.  You just have to learn how to make the most out of its strengths and accept its weaknesses.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, WidochMeirker said:

By troll you mean takes lots of damage or something else?  My Bayern gets the crap kicked out of it damage wise.  Does angling work different on it?  I love seeing Bayerns in my cruisers because I can damage them.

Look at the armor layout on Bayern

Compare it to the competition

Bayern has the best armor, period.

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Drive in closer, and hit them with your sword!
Get used to that idea, because it will stay with you for the entire rest of the German BB line.

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Even a ship with the best armor in the game will still crumble if put into bad situations.  With Bayern, or honestly any battleship, you want to approach fights carefully; you don't want to be trudging along in the open with five enemy ships all shooting at you.  What the armor does is allow you to bully ships who can't out-damage you before you(or your allies) sink them.  HE damage and fire damage can be largely repaired back with well-timed usage of repair parties.

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You say you can't hit anything outside of 8km, so move in closer. The armor works better up close, anyways. Drive at people and beat them up. Pick your fights though.

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you can't really bull rush  with any BBs at higher tier.  First thing is that you need to learn to aim better.  I tend to aim slightly higher than waterline for most cases to increase hit rate.  if your hit rate is lower than 25%, you need to practice shooting better, esp against angled target.      Take premium heal and repair combined with flags to increase  tankiness.     you need to get dreadnought achievement  consistently.

 

then learn to know when to push or retreat.  otherwise, you need to stay within range where you can tank damage and do damage.   its a decent ship.  not as op as UK BB, but strong enough to have fun with.

 

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I'm no ace player, I'm a collector who keeps an occasional eye on my stats to see how I am coming along.

But the Bayern is one of my winning ships and a definite keeper (66% WR over 65 battles). Once you have a solid BB that can take hits as others have pointed out, you play to her offensive strong points. Just surviving into the end game so often makes this ship an excellent BB.

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The Bayern plays ALLOT like the USN BB line before tier 8, probably why I did so well with her. If you haven't played the USN BB line or did bad with it then you will have a struggle with the Bayern. You need to be at the front line with the cruisers, you are direct support for them, with captain skill AFT and Secondary mod you can send out a 7.2km fireworks show that is more Ooooos and Awwwwws then actually for sinking ships, but its enough to throw off most other players forcing them to turn away. Your job is to be a sponge, your a tough ship so be it. While your taking hits, your cruisers will be able to work more effectively cause their not getting shot as much. Focus down anything giving you a broadside or whatever target is closest that you can effective hit. I'm knocking on my Bayern review later that will go into more detail on how I set mine up, I'll link it if I remember

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Is it still all stock? Plays a lot better fully upgraded. I find the guns accurate enough at least for a KM BB.

 

My gripe with it's guns is poor AP pen vs other BB. That can get frustrating for sure. Still one of my favorite BB's and I kept mine.

 

If you think Bayern's guns are inaccurate drop the line now as Gneisenau is worse (plus only 6 guns) and Bismarck isn't much better. Only KM BB I have played that was accurate through T8 was Konig. The rest remind me of Stevie Wonder throwing rocks at something.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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It's fully upgraded.  I think the main reason I get so frustrated with the ship is constantly watching well aimed volleys go long and short.  I'm constantly bracketing ships with the same volley.  So when you can't do any damage with it, it's just a bit on the frustrating side to play.  I'm really confused by the people who are saying it's a tough ship.  Even angled, it's so easy to damage. I eat so much damage in this ship, it gets burned down really quickly by IFHE and AP, as long as they know to aim above the top half of the ship pens everywhere.  I'm glad everyone seems to enjoy the ship.  I must not understand it's use very well.

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4 hours ago, WidochMeirker said:

It's fully upgraded.  I think the main reason I get so frustrated with the ship is constantly watching well aimed volleys go long and short.  I'm constantly bracketing ships with the same volley.  So when you can't do any damage with it, it's just a bit on the frustrating side to play.  I'm really confused by the people who are saying it's a tough ship.  Even angled, it's so easy to damage. I eat so much damage in this ship, it gets burned down really quickly by IFHE and AP, as long as they know to aim above the top half of the ship pens everywhere.  I'm glad everyone seems to enjoy the ship.  I must not understand it's use very well.

Everyone has sort of learned that to hurt KM BB's you aim for that line where the hull meets the deck now. So people now know how to hurt them. You will take a lot of regular pen damage because of it. However, the US and IJN BB's can be lolpenned with citadels, in addition to that regular pen damage, so to me that makes Bayern tougher. I agree it doesn't bounce shot as well as other BB's can but it is okay. Fire is the nemesis of all BB's. Just gets worse the higher you go I have discovered.

Some ships just don't click for some people. Take me. I absolutely DETEST Gneisenau. Lots of people claim it is their favorite. I do pretty good in it but just hate it and the guns are SO BAD it isn't funny. I would take Bayern over Gneisenau any day. The only thing that makes Gneisenau playable is the torps. Now you on the other hand may love that ship? It is like no other BB to that point I have played (plays like some massive heavy cruiser on roids LOL). Bismarck goes back to traditional BB play.

Hang in there and keep trying. Good luck with it.

Oh - on the missing shot thing. That is RNG messing with you. Bayern is not a sniper but it can be pretty good. I have made plenty of long range kills with it but truthfully it does better under say 14km.

I run into stretches like you describe too with different ships and it is very frustrating. Just this morning I had 5 salvos at an enemy CV in my KM T5 Konig between 8-10km and every single shell MISSED! My lead was fine. Some shells fell short, some fell long, some flew wide, etc... It was awful. And from Konig no less which is very accurate. So hang in there as RNG is screwing with you. It will get better.

 

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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Hey

I loved Bayern; it's a very good closin in brawler.  The guns at range are bad because of Dispersion but up close, they do tons of damage.  One person mentioned that some ship don't click with some people; I have that problem with the FDG and yet I loved the Bismarck (struggled with it until I got a good captain in it) but with the FDG, it's hit and miss even with a 14pt on board.

What Upgrades and captain skills do you have on your Bayern?  Slow turrets are my biggest complaint with it.

 

Pete

Edited by sasquatch_research

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15 hours ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I loved Bayern; it's a very good closin in brawler.  The guns at range are bad because of Dispersion but up close, they do tons of damage.  One person mentioned that some ship don't click with some people; I have that problem with the FDG and yet I loved the Bismarck (struggled with it until I got a good captain in it) but with the FDG, it's hit and miss even with a 14pt on board.

What Upgrades and captain skills do you have on your Bayern?  Slow turrets are my biggest complaint with it.

 

Pete

Good points Pete. The upgrades and Capt Skills can help make the ship a lot better.

I run the following upgrades in mine... 

  • Main Armaments Mod 1: Slot 1
  • Aiming Systems Mod 1: Slot 2 (a MUST HAVE in Bayern)
  • Damage Control Systems Mod 1: Slot 3
  • Steering Gears Mod 2: Slot 4

I have an 11pt Capt in my Bayern. Expert Marksman for 2pts to help turret traverse is a must. I also use BFT/AFT which does help out with secondary's and AA.

All in all Bayern is a good ship. IMO it is in the top couple for T6 BB's and is the best standard tech tree BB @ T6.

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Hey

I am running the Main Armaments Mod 1: Slot 1, Main Battery mod 2:  Slot 2 (When I brawl, I want my turrets to move as fast as possible, usually at close range, dispersion is not an issue), Damage Control Mod 1:  Slot 3, and Steering Gears Mod 2:  Slot 4

I presently have a lower point Capt (10pt) on board presently.  PM, EM, AR, SI and have 2 unused points, saving for AFT.  

Bayern has always been a good money maker for me and a fun ship to play.

 

Pete

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I recently unlocked the Bayern and it's becoming one of my favorite ships to play. I honestly think the trick is that you need to plan out where you're going and what you're going to do when you get there. You can say the same for most BB's, but with the Bayern it's quite important because you want to use terrain as an advantage to get closer, without being burned down by half the enemy team. Once you get within 10km, from my experience, the guns start to behave really well. On top of that in the early game, you can snipe some unsuspecting cruisers because the concealment on the Bayern is kind of nice. That concealment allows you to get within the No No range of cruisers and force them to run away, allowing you to dominate areas of the map. ^.^

 

Even funnier though, I have my Bayern entirely setup for a secondary build, and it works amazingly. I never do less than 30k damage and I've even had my highest potential damage game in the Bayern. Once you get up close, the trick is to bait them into shooting at the side of your boat. The turrets have pretty good angles, and you can bait out an attack by swinging the rear out a bit, and still be able to fire with most of your guns right back. Provided your close enough, the belt will just ruin anyone's hope of getting big AP salvos off against you. As for HE, you kind of just have to deal with it. I've had a few Dreadnaughts and Fireproofs in my Bayern, and the main way I survive is by looking after my health until about the mid-game. If you push up to early, you WILL get burned down quite easily and focused... if you stay around your concealment bubble, you can open up from stealth and get big hits early on. Of course though, don't sit at your concealment range if your team is pushing past you. Go with them... because if they're closing the range, then you can only benefit!

 

Just to give you an idea, these pictures are of a T8 Max game where I was able to brawl, and survive, against a QE, Two Bismarcks, and an NC. Again, the trick is to close the range at the mid-game point. If you close the range and use your belt to bait, you can bounce T5 and 6 easily and T7 and 8 occasionally. Just remember that you need your team to support you. I've had a lot of games where I take more damage than I give, but provided you're the one tanking for the cruisers and DD's on your team, you should come out fine. My W/R in the Bayern is 73% as of typing this. xP

 

mQHmY36.jpg

PrLOaXk.jpg

 

Last thing, try to avoid showing your side at all costs. It's very hard to citadel you at close range, but it's very easy to get a 10k-20k- salvo on you if you show the broadside up close in the Bayern. As you can see, I took a lot of AP damage, and a third of that was from the Queen Elizabeth, as they got a free salvo into my broadside. Good luck with your Bayern and I hope you're able to figure out and find it's fun side! :cap_like:

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