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Yikes! - slowing down the action in a Phoenix

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Ok, playing the Phoenix in Co-op and doing pretty good (they are bots after all).  Move up to Random and YIKES!  Now I know how college kids feel when they move to the NFL.

Playing the cover that the map gives me, not getting too far ahead of my team-mates (but still screening the BBs), keeping my profile as small as I can, and all of the sudden,

I am faced with more ships than I can handle.  I can't charge so I have to turn away and WHAM, I get hit in the big citadel center section of the ship as I turn.

As per the advice from the videos from iChase and UrPeacekeeper I try and play her with my dd skills of stealth and cover plus keeping a skinny profile.  I've done my research.

Am I missing a strategic strength or weakness of this ship?  Should I be trailing the dds instead of screening the BBs?

It's not that I'm not doing damage (I am).  It just seems that once I make contact, I don't have time to think because I'm in reaction mode.  Is there something about this ship

that other players want her out of commision ASAP?  Please advise. 

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A lot of times players see the Phoenix/Omaha as an easy citadel, so you get focused. I am not usually a big fan of the Priority Target skill but until your natural situational awareness is up to par it might be worth it.  That way you can know how many people are targeting you, and there for when you need to put all your attention into wiggling, dodging shots, and just getting out of the line of fire.  You should never been going in the same direction for more than a second if you spotted, always gotta be wiggling. I actually tend to be aggressive in my Murmansk/Marblehead (Omahas) you gotta know when to run and when to gun, it's just something you will have to learn from experience. 

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Playing in RANDOM is a while different world compared to CO-OP. The bots become so easily understood in their reactions and their redundant gameplay. Humans...the players just cannot be shoe horned into this gameplay as you found out.  Got deleted early and fast ??

Happens all the time - You have to look around and see where your team mates are going and grouping. Hang back and watch then follow. As a group your chances of survival go up considerable.  And as you play..watch that you are not creeping forward from the team..you will become

focused and die quick. especially when all of a sudden your team seemed to have made a U-Turn and hung back so you take the bullet or went another direction.   Just play some games as an education not farming  XP.  Your observation and learning will get you far ...

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You may be getting too far ahead too soon in the battle.  Sometimes it is best to not get too close to the suspected enemy before you know where they are.  Another thing to watch is actually entering the cap circle as a cruiser.  As you have discovered, your cruiser does not quite have the agility to dodge or escape that your DD does.  Try to be close or near to cover when advancing towards an unspotted enemy.  Like others have said, never sail in a straight line, change your direction and speed a bit even when you don't see an enemy.  Your WASD skills will become instinctive after a bit of practice.  Remember the phrase, "Go alone, die alone."

 

And, take heart, you will get the hang of it after you get more battles (and vid watching) under your belt.  While I like Flamu, I have personally also found Aerroon to be helpful to watch.

 

Fair winds and calm seas...

Edited by ExploratorOne
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If you are finding yourself too far forward and alone, follow your DDs at about 5km behind them. If they are going for cap, odds are they'll run into other dds and maybe a cruiser or two... but those can be dealt with quickly using a Phoenix. Heck, following dds at the beginning of the match in a cruiser will do you well all the way up the tiers. Just know the ships you face, generally, who has what (radar/hydro/torps) and general range they can fire at you. 

 

All the best! 

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Just as an FYI, I dropped down one tier to the St Lo (great guns) because she is my "comfort ship" in Random I ended up was over matched by Tier IV ships.  There were two Phoenix's on the other side.  I killed both with the reign of HE firepower that the St Lo can deliver.  After having just played the Phoenix, I could predict what the players on the other side were trying to do (they were in stalk mode).  They were doing what I would be doing if I were fighting their ship.  I lumbered my way to an intercept point (that's what you do with this big, slow tank of a ship) and rained down HE.  Does it count that I felt guilty?  it was like I was cheating because I had played both sides of the game.

It wasn't something that I was conscience about as I played the game but when I thought about it afterwards, I realized that I was always checking where the the Phoenix's were on the map.

I wonder if at certain Tiers you make sure that the you know where the ship on the other side is one that you have had success with and you try and take it out as soon as you can?

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The Phoenix.  There's a couple of simple rules to observe with this ship.

1) Your ship is made of glass. Play her like that.

2) You have no armor to speak of.  Your only defense is to be elsewhere when the shells arrive so be elsewhere.

3) Assume that any ship which can shoot at you is doing exactly that. If you need direction on what to do about this, refer to rule #1.

4) Don't assume that a lower tiered ship can't exploderate you, they can and will.  If in doubt of what to do, refer to rule #1.

5) Ships made of glass should not be out alone in front of ships which are made of steel.  Let dd's do that and you will be exploderated less often.

6) If you are sailing in a straight line, assume that you are already dead, you just haven't figured it out yet.

7) Don't be afraid to run away, it is often your best move in this ship.  

These rules will help keep you alive and above water and if you can accomplish that, you can then exploit the Phoenix's pretty awesome capabilities.  

First off, you are fast, really fast for a cruiser at this tier.  This helps you a LOT when you are at mid to long ranges, however if you are up close and personal, most players will be able to hit you pretty easily so, keep the range open, not so far that you cant hit your targets, but not so close that your speed advantage is negated. 

You have good all around firepower.  Unlike other ships in these tiers, heading bow on or stern on to an enemy doesn't badly reduce your firepower.  This is immensely useful for when you are dodging shells to save your life as you can keep punching a lot of shells towards them even as you are saying "OMG, OMG I am so going to die". 

Remember that your ship is made of glass, but she has teeth.  Being successful in this ship is figuring out how to dodge, flee, twist and turn while still punching back.  Do that long enough, and it will be the red ships heading to the bottom, not you,

Hope that helps, 

 

 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel
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Thank you, oh Wise Sages of WOWs.  Attached is the result of you advice (with no small help from a very smart Clemson driver)

Capture.JPG

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Everyone else pretty much covered the Phoenix gameplay here, but I wanted to add one thing.  Use the good range of its guns to your advantage.  Stay at long range, twist and turn and rain down HE on whoever you can.  You can melt down a BB at long range and its next to impossible for him to hit you. I actually liked the Phoenix,  the Omaha was worse in my opinion, but things get better after that.  Just remember, you will never have the same style of play as the st. Louis again at higher tiers. If you like tanky slow ships that can take a beating id give up on cruisers right now and go BB.

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On 9/15/2017 at 10:32 PM, Capt_Sassypants said:

Everyone else pretty much covered the Phoenix gameplay here, but I wanted to add one thing.  Use the good range of its guns to your advantage.  Stay at long range, twist and turn and rain down HE on whoever you can.  You can melt down a BB at long range and its next to impossible for him to hit you. I actually liked the Phoenix,  the Omaha was worse in my opinion, but things get better after that.  Just remember, you will never have the same style of play as the st. Louis again at higher tiers. If you like tanky slow ships that can take a beating id give up on cruisers right now and go BB.

So much this.

 

Not only is the range fantastic, the shells are very high velocity and have great convergence. It was with this ship that I got my first Arsonist after playing the game for quite some time. Big fat BBs at range are easy targets with these guns and they have a very hard time being able to hit you back. Phoenix is very fast for its tier and often allows you to dictate the engagement range.

 

The torps are a bonus and come in handy if you find yourself in a knife-fight with a DD or any other ship for that matter in a surprise close in engagement.

 

Phoenix is easily one of the best ships tier for tier that I've played so far and the best CL at tier 4 (with Kuma coming in a very close second). It's a shame the very similar Omaha has it so much tougher it tier 5.

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On 9/9/2017 at 0:59 AM, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

The Phoenix.  There's a couple of simple rules to observe with this ship.

1) Your ship is made of glass. Play her like that.

2) You have no armor to speak of.  Your only defense is to be elsewhere when the shells arrive so be elsewhere.

3) Assume that any ship which can shoot at you is doing exactly that. If you need direction on what to do about this, refer to rule #1.

4) Don't assume that a lower tiered ship can't exploderate you, they can and will.  If in doubt of what to do, refer to rule #1.

5) Ships made of glass should not be out alone in front of ships which are made of steel.  Let dd's do that and you will be exploderated less often.

6) If you are sailing in a straight line, assume that you are already dead, you just haven't figured it out yet.

7) Don't be afraid to run away, it is often your best move in this ship.  

These rules will help keep you alive and above water and if you can accomplish that, you can then exploit the Phoenix's pretty awesome capabilities.  

First off, you are fast, really fast for a cruiser at this tier.  This helps you a LOT when you are at mid to long ranges, however if you are up close and personal, most players will be able to hit you pretty easily so, keep the range open, not so far that you cant hit your targets, but not so close that your speed advantage is negated. 

You have good all around firepower.  Unlike other ships in these tiers, heading bow on or stern on to an enemy doesn't badly reduce your firepower.  This is immensely useful for when you are dodging shells to save your life as you can keep punching a lot of shells towards them even as you are saying "OMG, OMG I am so going to die". 

Remember that your ship is made of glass, but she has teeth.  Being successful in this ship is figuring out how to dodge, flee, twist and turn while still punching back.  Do that long enough, and it will be the red ships heading to the bottom, not you,

Hope that helps, 

 

 

^This.^

 

The Phoenix, if played properly is a true beast at T4.  You really need all the upgrades to make her dangerous but once you get them you can  become a tiger!  Your great speed and ROF combined with really, really excellent range can make you a terror to BB's and cruisers alike.  Your torps are handy if you get close enough to use them but I wouldn't rely on them unless you are stuck in a bad place and can't get range.  And range, at t4, is a huge advantage.  You can out range any cruiser at T4 and by a significant amount.  Only the Dugay comes close.  Now I'm not suggesting that you stay at max range and snipe, I mean, how boring is that?  But stay far enough back to give yourself time to dodge and frustrate the heck out of other cruisers who try to close but are too slow to run you down.  If your dd's are pushing up, hang back a bit and let them spot for you then rain fire on their target.  They will really appreciate it if you can get that CA off their backs.  Don't stay focused on one target either, mix it up.  You can hit all over the map so chose those fat broadsides and farm damage.  Your fire chance isn't that great but with a 7 second reload you can spam enough to get those BB's burning and if you do get into a brawl with another cruiser, your ap will cit them just fine when they give you that flat broadside.   Best advice from me is to just play it a lot.  A really, really lot.  It will help you out with other cruisers along the way.

 

I just hated the Phoenix when I first began playing it but it's become one of my favorites.  Good luck to you.

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The Phoenix feels VERY sluggish since the last upgrade.  Seems to take much longer to get moving and less responsive.  Turns seem to slow it down much more than before.  Also had engine knocked out twice in the first few matches after patch and that hardly ever happened before.  I used to be near the top of the leader board, now hardly one kill.  I played this ship quite a bit and have a 19 point captain...  It's not the same.

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