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Landing_Skipper

Smoke Firing Change - BOTH sides visible?

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Just reading a thread about how the new smoke detection range will affect the Perth. At 4.5 km Perth can detect any ship using Hydro IIRC. However, I'm wondering if WG is creating a new, unintended form of invisi-firing. 

DD moves in on smoke cloud. Fiji inside is happily firing. DD closes to 6.5 km (or whatever range is) and can torp & shoot Fiji. Can Fiji also see DD if it fires at him?  Can Fiji see any ship that is firing at him in smoke?  Or does Fiji (and its giant, unarmored citadel) have to leave smoke in order to retaliate?

If Fiji remains blind, this is really messed up. 

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It's going to work the same way it does now. If you don't have a spotter plane,hydro/radar or friendly ships to spot the ship firing at you from outside your smoke that can see you while you're firing from inside smoke, you won't be able to see it unless it gets close enough for proximity spotting or you leave smoke. So in short, spotting ships outside your smoke will work the exact same way it does now. So basically need to learn your new detection penalty from firing within smoke real quick. And continue to fire on the ship until right before he gets to your detection penalty range, then stop firing.

Edited by renegadestatuz
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4 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Just reading a thread about how the new smoke detection range will affect the Perth. At 4.5 km Perth can detect any ship using Hydro IIRC. However, I'm wondering if WG is creating a new, unintended form of invisi-firing. 

DD moves in on smoke cloud. Fiji inside is happily firing. DD closes to 6.5 km (or whatever range is) and can torp & shoot Fiji. Can Fiji also see DD if it fires at him?  Can Fiji see any ship that is firing at him in smoke?  Or does Fiji (and its giant, unarmored citadel) have to leave smoke in order to retaliate?

If Fiji remains blind, this is really messed up. 

You would think the penalty would apply outside of smoke as well. If you can see the muzzle flashes from within the smoke and shoot at it. Well the same logic should apply to the ship in the smoke shooting out. 

 

Unfortunately logical and world of warships dont normally fit in the same sentence. 

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I somtimes wonder that when smoke has been altered that there are not enough examples of ALL the situations that apply at any given time and HOW it changes the players circumstance. It seems when they mod one scenario it does not make a logical situation out of another.   I think that if a ship in smoke fires its guns then that ship is revealed and also a ship within so much radius should be revealed as well.  make sense or am I going crazy?

I guess I will wait this out as I suppose some read the comments from the Devs but the interpretation varies from that.   Could be just me...

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36 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

You would think the penalty would apply outside of smoke as well. If you can see the muzzle flashes from within the smoke and shoot at it. Well the same logic should apply to the ship in the smoke shooting out. 

 

Unfortunately logical and world of warships dont normally fit in the same sentence. 

 

Odd because at one point they where testing it where the smoke detection penalty applied even if you hid behind the smoke cloud.

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3 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

Odd because at one point they where testing it where the smoke detection penalty applied even if you hid behind the smoke cloud.

According to Octavian's livestream Q&A from this morning, it will still apply for ships sitting behind smoke and firing. So it's not just for ships sitting in smoke. It applies if there is smoke between you and the target, whether you're sitting in the smoke or sitting behind the smoke.

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Ahhh nice, was wondering if that had made it in. Thanks for the update.

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I honestly think it will still be workable  we will just have to choose the right situations when and when not to smoke certain teammates.  

Detection range for the Des moines i think i read was something like 8.5k?  while firing in smoke.

Well if that the case then as long as nothing is within that range all things should work as they do now with most ship other than BB"S

The only down side to this is smoking up when trying to capture a flag with an enemy DD less than 10k from you right?

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1 minute ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

The only down side to this is smoking up when trying to capture a flag with an enemy DD less than 10k from you right?

Correct. You'll more than likely be spotted at that point.

Edited by renegadestatuz

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3 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Correct. You'll more than likely be spotted at that point.

Okay so if i understand correctly. 

 

If a SS is between you and a BB. Lets say that BB is 11 km away, the detection penalty for firing in smoke is 13km.. 

 

even if you are both 5km away from the smoke screen, if the other side of the smoke screen has no LOS, the 13km detection penalty will apply in open water?  Even if no LOS is on the other side of the SS? 

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Here's how it works on PT right now:

pt0611-vision.png.0a2a96f937fc105c082f3b11378c0c23.png

.

 

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Ahh but here is the Question i wonder the most if you are detected while firing in smoke and you stop firing will your detection drop off  immediately or will will it take several seconds?

Because you are in smoke so it should reduce your time of detection right?

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

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37 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Correct. You'll more than likely be spotted at that point.

Haven't had time to play the PTS yet, so apologies for the question, but what about the opposite?  The DM, not in smoke itself, approaches a smoked-up DD in a cap circle, radars, and opens fire when the DD is at 8 km.  No other ships are around to detect.  Is the DM detected by the destroyer in smoke by virtue of its own in-smoke detection bloom?  Does that detection fade immediately if the DM manages to kill the smoked up destroyer, or does it persist for 20 seconds beyond that moment?

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1 minute ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

Ahh but here is the Question i wonder the most if you are detected while firing in smoke and you stop firing will your detection drop off  immediately or will will it take several seconds?

Because you are in smoke so it should reduce your time of detection right?

Still takes 20s.

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4 minutes ago, amade said:

Still takes 20s.

now see that to me should be reworked.  At least cut in half because your in smoke not open water

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42 minutes ago, amade said:

Here's how it works on PT right now:

pt0611-vision.png.0a2a96f937fc105c082f3b11378c0c23.png

.

 

Thank you for this. 

 

So if i understand correctly. Even applying long smoke screens infront of groups of friendlies will not help alleviate this new change. That irregardless of the smoke screen distance from the target. The bloom penalty will apply to detection no matter what. 

 

So this effectively kills firing from concealment completely within the distances set for ships.. outside of behind terrain

 

Not sure how i feel about this now..

 

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Smoke still makes ships less visible, even big ships.  They just aren't totally invisible anymore.  The bigger the ship, the bigger the detection penalty for firing the guns while in or behind smoke.  It will help prevent a gaggle of ships huddled in smoke from firing away with immunity. 

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47 minutes ago, GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND said:

now see that to me should be reworked.  At least cut in half because your in smoke not open water

We asked for that when OWSF was removed, give DDs a 5-10 second bloom time. Not this 20s garbage we have now. 

 

WG said they didn't like how ships would "Blink" in and out of view when they supposedly tested the idea. Meanwhile, ships blink in and out of view all the time due to LoS being broken by islands. 

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6 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

WG said they didn't like how ships would "Blink" in and out of view when they supposedly tested the idea. Meanwhile, ships blink in and out of view all the time due to LoS being broken by islands. 

 

I often wondered why in WoT, a tank would remain "spotted" for about 8 seconds (or so, can't remember the actual time) after LOS was broken while a ship that is considerably larger and less mobile/agile, disappears instantly. 

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4 minutes ago, Bronco said:

 

I often wondered why in WoT, a tank would remain "spotted" for about 8 seconds (or so, can't remember the actual time) after LOS was broken while a ship that is considerably larger and less mobile/agile, disappears instantly. 

and they disappear just before your guns reload.

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Quite an elaborate fix. Could the same effect have been accomplished by decreasing the time a smoke cloud remains. Possibly that the smoke gets thinner as time goes by. Like at 30 seconds after deployment the ship in the smoke will flash for 1 second and at 40 seconds for 2 seconds etc... You have ships flashing in and out of view then though.

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2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Quite an elaborate fix. Could the same effect have been accomplished by decreasing the time a smoke cloud remains. Possibly that the smoke gets thinner as time goes by. Like at 30 seconds after deployment the ship in the smoke will flash for 1 second and at 40 seconds for 2 seconds etc... You have ships flashing in and out of view then though.

Then you severely nerf destroyers, who are left relatively unscathed in this change.. 

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