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Not_Your_Average_Potato

Anyone else feels that the Conqueror HE a little bit OP?

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Taking a bit of a break from CV play and went back to my BB mainly the Montana lately.  I am used to getting HE spam and have fired set on me all the time. But unfortunately I really felt that the fire chance is a bit too high for the Conqueror.  Basically almost every salvo he sets a fire.  I thought the Zao was bad but this seemed to be taken to a whole new level.  I personally think lowering the fire chance a bit might make it more balance??? Right now it almost felt like anyone can just free XP up to the tier x and just load HE and spam away and do well.  I don't have the Conqueror so I can't say for sure if it's OP or not but on the receiving end it certainly feels that the ship is OP in the setting fire department.

Edited by Not_Your_Average_Potato

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This is the natural result of the bow camping meta. Sit still? Burn.

"But I never sat still!"

Yeah, too many people did.

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8 minutes ago, Lert said:

This is the natural result of the bow camping meta. Sit still? Burn.

"But I never sat still!"

Yeah, too many people did.

Too true Lert, to true.

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22 minutes ago, Not_Your_Average_Potato said:

Taking a bit of a break from CV play and went back to my BB mainly the Montana lately.  I am used to getting HE spam and have fired set on me all the time. But unfortunately I really felt that the fire chance is a bit too high for the Conqueror.  Basically almost every salvo he sets a fire.  I thought the Zao was bad but this seemed to be taken to a whole new level.  I personally think lowering the fire chance a bit might make it more balance??? Right now it almost felt like anyone can just free XP up to the tier x and just load HE and spam away and do well.  I don't have the Conqueror so I can't say for sure if it's OP or not but on the receiving end it certainly feels that the ship is OP in the setting fire department.

It's going to take a bit of time to get the proper analytics from the stats to decide.  Most new ships have inflated stats right out of the gate due to higher caliber players grinding up the lines quickly.  Once the average player population infiltrates the entire line, we'll see how OP she really is.

 

WG typically (and rightfully) does not make knee-jerk changes to tech tree ships over such a short time span.

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17 minutes ago, Lert said:

This is the natural result of the bow camping meta. Sit still? Burn.

"But I never sat still!"

Yeah, too many people did.

Sorry hate to disappoint but I don't bow tank in my BBs.  Always keep moving.  Unless u are in a choke point and the situation really requires u to do so.  But very rarely.  

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The testers had them and they were apparently approved, let's give them more than a week before we start giving them OP status.

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4 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

The testers had them and they were apparently approved, let's give them more than a week before we start giving them OP status.

This:Smile_great:

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The only issue I take with Conquerer(and subsequently the other high tier RN BBs) is their concealment values in conjunction with the bloom time. They blink in and out of detection fairly easily, because the reload times are standard with the 20 second bloom time. This is the exact reason WG said they wouldn't implement a shorter bloom time for DDs(even though it was entirely possible to shorten DD bloom time without making them "blink" in and out of detection), yet here's a new BB line that can do exactly that, and can fairly easily abuse it.

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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2 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

The testers had them and they were apparently approved, let's give them more than a week before we start giving them OP status.

The majority of testers also called them extremely strong at least, if not OP.  Let's not forget that they have zero say in what actually goes down at the balancing department, they just provide feedback that's especially listened-to compared to the rest of us.

 

Also, I just noticed you're from Minnetonka.  You pay attention to the sailing scene over there at all?

Edited by ValkyrWarframe

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I took a 20K HE salvo in my Missouri from a Conqueror and set a fire. I really feel like no ship should be able to do that much damage with a HE salvo. We will see long term what happens to this line but I really do not think an entire BB line based on high HE damage is not good. 

 

Just my .02. 

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Hey

I think there is a case that HE on many of the RN BB's is a bit OP when you straight up compare their Fire Chance over their rivals and by good margin.  T4 +8%, T5 +13%, T6 Even, T7 KGV +5% and Nelson +10%, T8 -1% (NC higher), T9 +5%, T10 +10%.  These are values over the 2nd highest competitors, some cases are even more against lowest ships of the tier like at T9, Lion = 46%, while Izumo = 30%.  I would hardly say a +16% advantage is hardly fair.  The worst is tiers 4, 5, 7, 9, 10.  Now I understand every line has advantages and weaknesses, like german armour and it's dispersion, Japanese speed & range but weaker armor/AA and American AA & decent guns but slow speed, British have fantastic HE but slow turrets.  I think it would have been better to have the HE closer to their competitors BB's and let the RN have usable AP rounds comparable to their competitors.  Interesting to note that the Hood, flagship of the RN for many years only gets 34% at T7 (Same as Gneisenau), which is 7% less than KGV and 12% less than Nelson.  There are other factors that come into play like sigma for one; But these HE spamming BB's are a bit much overkill, no wonder everyone says shoot HE in a RN BB.

 

Pete

 

P.S.  Who comes up with this stuff and approves it.  One minute it's rather OP HE fire chances on the RN BB's and the next minute it's the Graf Zeppelin fiasco, whatever happened to testing, feedback, and "balancing"?

Edited by sasquatch_research

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On 9/7/2017 at 1:28 PM, ValkyrWarframe said:

The majority of testers also called them extremely strong at least, if not OP.  Let's not forget that they have zero say in what actually goes down at the balancing department, they just provide feedback that's especially listened-to compared to the rest of us.

 

Also, I just noticed you're from Minnetonka.  You pay attention to the sailing scene over there at all?

I can tell you, after being around st's as long as I have, they're listened to just as much as we are. Well, the non-russian ones, that is.

 

On 9/7/2017 at 10:59 AM, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Too true Lert, to true.

Oh, hi akashi! *waves*

 

 

Personally, I don't mind the fires. What bothers me is when I'm in my amagi and one salvo of he lands down the length of my deck and knocks off a quarter of my health. HE shouldn't do that. That's giving way too much easymode to nooblords who need to learn how to use AP.

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Fire is OP, Conquer is exactly in line with how it should be based on the current fire meta.  Fire needs to be adjusted, not a single ship.  

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lol.  WG  always make new  t10 ships  OP so that people will freeXP to it and spend bucks.   they will wait for couple month before  nerfing it down a bit, thus making it bit less OP by the time mass gets there.      they won't adjust anything for a while as long as they can profit from it.  :D

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the RN BB line is all together op at least at T8-10.  I main line BB's normally the Montana and i willl try and avoid fights with the Conqueror the sheer volume of fire require to kill it is insane ive watched Conqueror's GAIN health while taking salvos from BBs and Cruisers combine ap and he their super heal is insane.  Ive also taken 15 or 20k  HE alpha salvos from the Conqueror and been set on fire at the same time.  This is especially frustrating when a Conqueror pops up at 11.1 kms  and does this.  Now that the [edited] is over i like the fact that we have RN BBs in the game but i do think their super heal needs nerf to put it more inline with the other bbs and that should come along with a overall health increase again to put more inline with the other BB's.  Also the fire chance and alpha of the he should be nerfed as well i dont exactly mind their he being more powerful than the other BBs as it will set them apart but this is ridiculous.  I dont like where WG is going with this its taking skill out of the game as angling has no effect on RN bbs that are using HE i think the same thing about the up coming smoke changes and the Pan- Asian line.  Come on WG.   

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2 hours ago, lidzyftw said:

the RN BB line is all together op at least at T8-10.  I main line BB's normally the Montana and i willl try and avoid fights with the Conqueror the sheer volume of fire require to kill it is insane ive watched Conqueror's GAIN health while taking salvos from BBs and Cruisers combine ap and he their super heal is insane.  Ive also taken 15 or 20k  HE alpha salvos from the Conqueror and been set on fire at the same time.  This is especially frustrating when a Conqueror pops up at 11.1 kms  and does this.  Now that the [edited] is over i like the fact that we have RN BBs in the game but i do think their super heal needs nerf to put it more inline with the other bbs and that should come along with a overall health increase again to put more inline with the other BB's.  Also the fire chance and alpha of the he should be nerfed as well i dont exactly mind their he being more powerful than the other BBs as it will set them apart but this is ridiculous.  I dont like where WG is going with this its taking skill out of the game as angling has no effect on RN bbs that are using HE i think the same thing about the up coming smoke changes and the Pan- Asian line.  Come on WG.   

So what you mean is "I don't want to change the current BB bow/smoke camping meta."

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13 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

So what you mean is "I don't want to change the current BB bow/smoke camping meta."

It's not bow tanking/camping meta... get in a brawl with one? oh sorry, you wont be able to citadel me and I'll give you 3 fires in return.  It's not just smoke abusers or detection time abusers, it's flat out able to eat ludicrous damage in a brawl, not be citadel'd, and will give you 3, 4 fires that you will not be able to put out (which will eat 72% of your health just from fire alone).

I flat out now refuse to play t9/10 bb's due to the disparate nature of the conqueror. I absolutely will unabashedly *never* give WG a penny with the conqueror staying as it is. million+ xp each GK's, Yam, Mo, will sit an get dusty. 

Edited by SPAPtasticles

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12 hours ago, SPAPtasticles said:

It's not bow tanking/camping meta... get in a brawl with one? oh sorry, you wont be able to citadel me and I'll give you 3 fires in return.  It's not just smoke abusers or detection time abusers, it's flat out able to eat ludicrous damage in a brawl, not be citadel'd, and will give you 3, 4 fires that you will not be able to put out (which will eat 72% of your health just from fire alone).

I flat out now refuse to play t9/10 bb's due to the disparate nature of the conqueror. I absolutely will unabashedly *never* give WG a penny with the conqueror staying as it is. million+ xp each GK's, Yam, Mo, will sit an get dusty. 

You don't know how to fight an RN BB is what you just told me, you don't try to citadel one, you don't aim at the waterline. Aim at the parts of the ship that don't have armor, they will take massive damage from your standard pens because how how little HP they have.

 

You are another example of a player that is unwilling or unable to adapt, and just rushes to the OP argument without trying to learn how to overcome a new challenge.

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On 9/23/2017 at 2:11 PM, Prkl8r said:

You don't know how to fight an RN BB is what you just told me, you don't try to citadel one, you don't aim at the waterline. Aim at the parts of the ship that don't have armor, they will take massive damage from your standard pens because how how little HP they have.

 

You are another example of a player that is unwilling or unable to adapt, and just rushes to the OP argument without trying to learn how to overcome a new challenge.

Even at approximately 23K per salvo every ~26seconds with favorable RNG mechanics at a range <10KM; a conqueror will still have better than even odds to out gun you due to heal pool. While it's weak, the trade off is that it can act like it has 140K health if played right and you have to eat HE salvos that will give you 3 or 4 fires, for a duration of at least 1 minute, not counting the splash damage it deals out. If the conq flees, then he comes back with appreciably more health as his maximum health is not as severely curtailed as if you were citadel'd in a yam/mont/GK (variable ceiling maximum?)

 

And for giggles, the citadel rate using AP via GK 420's at 7.5km is ~1% for waterline out of 500 shells fired; bumped up to ~1.5% for 10km (perfect broadside). I've adapted just fine, I simply shelved GK an yamato. They simply are not fun to play anymore. period. When I division with a Haku/Mid that would priority target a conq over all others, then I play those 2 ships. Otherwise for BB I stick with monty where it's got some level of conceal and maneuverability or switch classes to troll division. Conqueror 1 salvo: 12-18K dmg, *all* AA deleted and strong probability of 2+ fires? That's where it kills the fun and engaging and instead leaves "turned off wallet" in it's place. 

 

But meh, I feel it's not a challenge when you know your opponent on the other side just point and clicks in the general vicinity and is guaranteed fire and severe damage. Echoing another, it's perma easymode with no skill involved. Simply my opinion and direct observations. Like everything, take it with a grain of NaCl.

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When I'm in a Brit BB using HE it feels fine, balanced, at least in the larger scheme of things where various spices enhance the mix; when I am in other BBs and getting roasted by Brit HE... it's irksome.

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7 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

When I'm in a Brit BB using HE it feels fine, balanced, at least in the larger scheme of things where various spices enhance the mix; when I am in other BBs and getting roasted by Brit HE... it's irksome.

That's HE fire damage in general. Nothing will change that short of a rework.

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26 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

That's HE fire damage in general. Nothing will change that short of a rework.

Yes, and I'm not complaining actually.

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