Citrusss

Did BBabies cry out another nerf to DDs?

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Somehow, every topic on the forum was about how the upcoming smoke mechanics will nerf battleships but hey, battleships can survive without smoke whatsoever - huge HP pool, great armour, repair party.

 

However, with the new patch many gunboat destroyers will be hit the hardest! And this, of course, includes higher tier RN cruisers and other nations' heavy cruisers which were using smoke just not to get one-shot killed by battleships. Literally, WG is taking away survival chances of heavy cruisers and gunboats. First, open water stealth fire, now this... 

 

I propose the following: make BB understandable completely and make another game for the rest - which has complexity and non-BB domination game play.  

 

Look at the queues - 6/12 slots per team are battleships pretty much every match!


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Gunboats aren't really going to be affected by this too much. They are just going to be detected at 3-4(ish)km when firing in smoke. Though I do think that this change should not affect the ship who created the smokescreen. RN cruisers really didn't need any kind of nerf.

 

As for lots of BBs around, they did just release a much anticipated battleship line very recently...

Edited by SovereignEagle

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havn't you seen all the Nerf RN BB thread? if other classes are gone, they will whine about certain BBs.      it is never ending cycle of whining about their own inadequacies.    For cruisers,  it is kinda bad that certain DD have concealment that is better than smoke conceal during fire.   that could be very dangerous.  


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The upcoming smoke changes are a nerf to team play. This is why no one likes them, because they discourage smoking your allies and helping them out. They seem to have mitigated this by making the smoke effect the individual rather than the smoke cloud.


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I was under the impression that the smoke changes means something like a US DD goes from 2km detect shooting in smoke (assuming no modifiers such as TAM on an enemy ship) to 2.5 - 3km detect when shooting in smoke.

RNCL's I grant get hit with larger detect ranges, but even on a ship such as the Minotaur the range is  around 5-6km nearly that of Hydro, and really even with the Mino you don't want to be that close and you should have friendlies around as spotters, otherwise if you get blindsided by a ship getting that close I have to ask; what are you doing that far extended/blind in a Mino? Or how did that enemy slip through your spotters?


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The problem is, this won't effect battleships the way Wargaming thinks. Half the reason to even bother pushing at high tiers is knowing you will have friendly smoke to act as cover to fire out of. Otherwise you are too easily focused down.

So all of those BBs who just sit parked at 25+km? There are probably going to be EVEN MORE OF THEM from this.

 

Wargaming wants to force a mobile meta, and that's a great goal. But of course they are going about it the completely wrong way.
There's two ways to do it really.
A Un Nerf high tier battleship agility, while simultaneously un nerfing the IJN torpedoes. The DDs will actually get more kills, as potatoes will still not have a clue how to dodge metal fishes, even if bbs had 2x the agility they had back in beta. 
B Bring back CVs. A static target is a dead one to CVs. 

 

But, wargaming being the dumpsterfire of a company that they are, refuses to do either because that's too much like admitting they were wrong.

Edited by Mavairo

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11 minutes ago, SovereignEagle said:

As for lots of BBs around, they did just release a much anticipated battleship line very recently...

I mostly play high tiers (8-10) and not many RN BBs are there yet but still overpopulated with battleships

 

5 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

I was under the impression that the smoke changes means something like a US DD goes from 2km detect shooting in smoke (assuming no modifiers such as TAM on an enemy ship) to 2.5 - 3km detect when shooting in smoke.

RNCL's I grant get hit with larger detect ranges, but even on a ship such as the Minotaur the range is  around 5-6km nearly that of Hydro, and really even with the Mino you don't want to be that close and you should have friendlies around as spotters, otherwise if you get blindsided by a ship getting that close I have to ask; what are you doing that far extended/blind in a Mino? Or how did that enemy slip through your spotters?

I think I've seen a table before which shows way more than 5 km for RN cruisers and even more that 5 for gunboats like Ru DD. these "average" include 100 mm guns of akizuki and such


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17 minutes ago, awildpervert said:

its okay just charge in and suicide torp

Those rifles are pitiful.  


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7 minutes ago, comtedumas said:

Those rifles are pitiful.  

the arisakas are pretty accurate from what i heard from some gun owners sucks its hard to find one with the emperor's seal.


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Well I'm working off memory, so I will concede that.

I think the other RNCL's are about 7.5km because of the larger caliber. Although I feel only the Minotaur is the one that I would ever really risk close in aggression because of the traverse. The previous ships are setup in a way that for me at least I tend to keep more distance because of the turrets and other factors. Of course that's all my own opinion. 

As for the DD's my memory was that the US, IJN, and KM kept really low sub-4km detect ranges when shooting. If it's higher than I can see that being an issue. 

I might go look for a table.


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2 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

Well I'm working off memory, so I will concede that.

I think the other RNCL's are about 7.5km because of the larger caliber. Although I feel only the Minotaur is the one that I would ever really risk close in aggression because of the traverse. The previous ships are setup in a way that for me at least I tend to keep more distance because of the turrets and other factors. Of course that's all my own opinion. 

As for the DD's my memory was that the US, IJN, and KM kept really low sub-4km detect ranges when shooting. If it's higher than I can see that being an issue. 

I might go look for a table.

mind these values on top of 2 km, if I understand that correctly.

Edited by Citrusss

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I've learn't that complaining on the forums does absolutely nothing, the developers simply do not care about the opinions of their players.

 


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8 minutes ago, awildpervert said:

the arisakas are pretty accurate from what i heard from some gun owners sucks its hard to find one with the emperor's seal.

type 38 is quite good rifle.  it is based on mauser action and comes with chrome lined bore making them very durable.       too bad that so many of them have been sporterized and mums ground off after the war.    Type 99 on the other hand can be found in much poorer quality depending on when it is made.    it just isn't as nice as type 38 though.     I have  38, 99, 44 and paratrooper take down.     interesting rifles, but i do prefer american  guns in general for WW2 type. 


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33 minutes ago, awildpervert said:

its okay just charge in and suicide torp

Violent, but hilarious way of showing the IJN and IJA tensions of World War 2.


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So my understanding is as follows:

Old detection range in smoke firing or not firing equals 2km (ignoring TAM and such).

 

New smoke:

Detection in smoke not firing, 2km.

DD detect in smoke when firing average of 2.5km, this replaces not adds to the 2km minimum detect.

Cruiser detect in smoke when firing average of 5.9km, this replaces, not adds.

BB detect in smoke when firing average of 13.6km, this replaces, not adds. 

That is my understanding.


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41 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

Somehow, every topic on the forum was about how the upcoming smoke mechanics will nerf battleships but hey, battleships can survive without smoke whatsoever - huge HP pool, great armour, repair party.

 

However, with the new patch many gunboat destroyers will be hit the hardest! And this, of course, includes higher tier RN cruisers and other nations' heavy cruisers which were using smoke just not to get one-shot killed by battleships. Literally, WG is taking away survival chances of heavy cruisers and gunboats. First, open water stealth fire, now this... 

 

I propose the following: make BB understandable completely and make another game for the rest - which has complexity and non-BB domination game play.  

 

Look at the queues - 6/12 slots per team are battleships pretty much every match!

well seeing they nerfed torpedos to hell aleady I don't know what they really can do the nerf dd now?


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3 minutes ago, Meatshield_No13 said:

So my understanding is as follows:

Old detection range in smoke firing or not firing equals 2km (ignoring TAM and such).

 

New smoke:

Detection in smoke not firing, 2km.

DD detect in smoke when firing average of 2.5km, this replaces not adds to the 2km minimum detect.

Cruiser detect in smoke when firing average of 5.9km, this replaces, not adds.

BB detect in smoke when firing average of 13.6km, this replaces, not adds. 

That is my understanding.

will see. gotta wait test server feedback. need full capt reset again though


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7 minutes ago, 5D_Kitakami_Megatron said:

well seeing they nerfed torpedos to hell aleady I don't know what they really can do the nerf dd now?

remove them from the game?


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45 minutes ago, SovereignEagle said:

Gunboats aren't really going to be affected by this too much. They are just going to be detected at 3-4(ish)km when firing in smoke. Though I do think that this change should not affect the ship who created the smokescreen. RN cruisers really didn't need any kind of nerf.

 

As for lots of BBs around, they did just release a much anticipated battleship line very recently...

Hi SovereignEagle - if WG  were really trying to follow their 'big Ships not hiding in smoke' then they could have easily left those ships alone that were given the smoke in the first place; as you suggest (possibly because they need it in the case of RN).

 

However, they can't do that because this is an attempt to nerf the Kutuzov and Belfast - without nerfing premiums directly. So if they let ships that produce smoke off with the smoke changes it defeats the purpose. :Smile_honoring:


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2 hours ago, Citrusss said:

Somehow, every topic on the forum was about how the upcoming smoke mechanics will nerf battleships but hey, battleships can survive without smoke whatsoever - huge HP pool, great armour, repair party.

 

However, with the new patch many gunboat destroyers will be hit the hardest! And this, of course, includes higher tier RN cruisers and other nations' heavy cruisers which were using smoke just not to get one-shot killed by battleships. Literally, WG is taking away survival chances of heavy cruisers and gunboats. First, open water stealth fire, now this... 

 

I propose the following: make BB understandable completely and make another game for the rest - which has complexity and non-BB domination game play.  

 

Look at the queues - 6/12 slots per team are battleships pretty much every match!

The only crying that I've been seeing for months now has been from a minority of DD players. Folks like you have no room to talk about "BBabies"

 

Edited by ReddNekk

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Someone mentioned that BBaby word again and I just had to show up to break things. And faces. And hopes and dreams.


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Why complain?  BBs have a role, DDs have a role.  Just go out and play your best.

 

~B


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2 hours ago, comtedumas said:

Those rifles are pitiful.  

 

The Arisaka gets a bad reputation because of the late war 'last ditch' models (Which were produced as quickly and cheaply as possible with substandard materials and workmanship). But in truth the action was strong and it was both accurate and reliable. I would say that it was every bit as good as any other bolt action military rifle of the time. 


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