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Smoke Changes 0.6.11

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After reading the changes.. I really like this.    GG Wargaming.   Adjusting smoke without breaking smoke ships will be nice.  I really like the look of this change.

 

Some Key Notes from Below

1: Planes cannot detect Ships in smoke.

2: Detection Range based on main battery Caliber

on Average.

2.5km Destroyers

5.9km Cruisers

13.6km Battleships.

 

 

 

---------------

In Ranked Battles especially, we noticed players preferred passive play and and either set their smokescreens too early or tried to wait their enemies out. We took your feedback into account, and started working on smoke mechanics. We're aware this is a core game mechanic and approached it diligently. After many tests, we'd like you to test the new smokescreen mechanics, which are unlikely to influence performance of the ships equipped with Smoke Generators, and balanced according to this consumable. The change should only affect close and medium-range battles.

Currently, a ship firing from within a smokescreen was totally invisible and could be detected only in the range of assured acquisition (2km standard, 3km if a Target Acquisition System Modification 1 was mounted,)  and by Surveillance Radar or Hydroacoustic Search.

With the new mechanic, a ship that fires her main caliber guns is easier to spot or detect by enemy ships, while aircraft still cannot detect her. Her new detectability parameter depend on her class and main battery caliber. The average detectability range is 2.5km for destroyers, 5.9km for cruisers, and 13.6km for battleships, and the ships can be detected over 20 seconds from firing.

You can view the 2km range of assured acquisition and detectability after a main battery shot in the ship's  characteristics in Port, and by pressing H or mousing over your HP indicator in battle.

Check the Update Notes for each ship's detectability range after they fire from a smokescreen!

  • Cool 2

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My only concern about the smoke change the learning period is going to be messy as hell. Not for me, but for BB's/CA's that hug the crap out of DD/CL drivers expecting/waiting for smoke. Also, I would like to know how sitting behind the smoke works. If I'm a BB behind but not in the smoke, will it still show me through to ~12km or will it act like a wall.

Edited by _RC1138

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The "average" range is interesting to me....  Wonder what the Belfast will be as compared to say, a Zao.  I'm hoping for a very "tight" range for a class of ships as opposed to a broad range or we will still see a Belfast with a 3km detection range.  Also, what is the basic mechanic they will vary it on.  Will it be gun range, gun caliber, or ship size.  In anycase, I'm excited and hopeful.

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Also, I'm wondering if it's based on detection base range or caliber (or something else entirely) as it gives a noticeable advantage to KM BB's sitting in smoke if it's based solely on caliber (having lower caliber at tier than nearly all their competition). If it's on base detection, then RN BB's and USN BB's will be the least hurt. And I mean this mathematically, not practically.

Edited by _RC1138

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3 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

My only concern about the smoke change the learning period is going to be messy as hell. Not for me, but for BB's/CA's that hug the crap out of DD/CL drivers expecting/waiting for smoke. Also, I would like to know how sitting behind the smoke works. If I'm a BB behind but not in the smoke, will it still show me through to ~12km or will it act like a wall.

 

Ditto, this would be very useful to know.

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2 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

but for BB's/CA's that hug the crap out of DD/CL drivers expecting/waiting for smoke.

Had one the other day when I took out my mostly mothballed Shiratsuyu screaming for a smoke screen. Of course I didn't even carry smoke that battle:Smile-angry:

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Is this another WG's abuse of the unconditional proximity detection? Is it limited by line of sight? Will I be detected if I fire from within the smoke and there's a red ship within the new in-smoke-detection distance but without line of sight (behind a rock)?

Also. What happens when a ship fires with smoke between it and the red ships, but it's not in the smoke?

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I have all the detection ranges for ships in this thread here sans RN BBs: 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, chewonit said:

1). Is this another WG's abuse of the unconditional proximity detection?

 

2). Is it limited by line of sight? Will I be detected if I fire from within the smoke and there's a red ship within the new in-smoke-detection distance but without line of sight (behind a rock)?

 

3). Also. What happens when a ship fires with smoke between it and the red ships, but it's not in the smoke?

 

1). It is not. Proxy spotting is still the same until you fire your guns. After that your base detection in smoke becomes a certain distance. All of which can be found here:

 

2). I believe yes. It is limited by line of sight. It isn't proxy spotting, it is normal detection.

 

3). The same thing that happens now. They can't see you. However you need to take in account spotter aircraft which will see you behind the smoke.

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33 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

My only concern about the smoke change the learning period is going to be messy as hell. Not for me, but for BB's/CA's that hug the crap out of DD/CL drivers expecting/waiting for smoke. Also, I would like to know how sitting behind the smoke works. If I'm a BB behind but not in the smoke, will it still show me through to ~12km or will it act like a wall.

We should all play at least a little bit on this PT to see how the changes work. Over all I feel this will be a good change and the first posts after thousands of matches about this will be entertaining.

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Smoke change is stupid only promotes snipe camping... 

"The change should only affect close and medium-range battles."

Yay, for the new boring meta you bring with this.

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My guess is smoke still acts like a wall (subject to assured acquisition, of course) if you're not in it.  Not only is this sensible, it's probably easier to code as well.  My question is what happens if you have intervening smoke AND you're in a smoke cloud?

 

This will evolve new strategy and tactics.  Obviously, a wall of smoke at a cap corner next to land mass would make a nice place to set up shop just like the current dynamic.  The new counter tactics will involve spotter planes, CV spotters, and flanking the smoke.  Also, there will remain the strategy of smoking someone up so they can heal.  The tactic here is you simply cannot fire main weapon..well, at least until you heal.  Or, slowly back out to get the wall effect before doing so.

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I'm very happy about this.  It's good in a general sense and also favors my play style in BBs, cruiser, and DDs, specifically my approach with regard to smoke.

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44 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

The "average" range is interesting to me....  Wonder what the Belfast will be as compared to say, a Zao.  I'm hoping for a very "tight" range for a class of ships as opposed to a broad range or we will still see a Belfast with a 3km detection range.  Also, what is the basic mechanic they will vary it on.  Will it be gun range, gun caliber, or ship size.  In anycase, I'm excited and hopeful.

I read that as 5-inch vs 6-inch vs 8-inch vs 'other' calibers will have slightly different values, but still 'around' the average value quoted.  Same for BBs, from 11-inch to 18.1 inch.  I guess we'll find out.

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2 minutes ago, MorbidGamer said:

Smoke change is stupid only promotes snipe camping... 

"The change should only affect close and medium-range battles."

Yay, for the new boring meta you bring with this.

 

 

Detection Range based on main battery Caliber on Average.

2.5km Destroyers

5.9km Cruisers

13.6km Battleships.

 

You want gun bloom detection range in smoke to be the same as without smoke - 100% of maximum range? 

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Just now, lemekillmister said:

 

 

Detection Range based on main battery Caliber on Average.

2.5km Destroyers

5.9km Cruisers

13.6km Battleships.

 

You want gun bloom detection range in smoke to be the same as without smoke - 100% of maximum range? 

Like I said this only promotes snipe camping. The average numbers are only there because it makes it look less like a drastic change, because there are so many lower caliber ships below T7. Anyone who plays T7+ is going to experience CRAP TONS of camping increase over this.

 

My average ship tier is 7.2 so this is going to suck BIG TIME.

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22 minutes ago, MorbidGamer said:

Anyone who plays T7+ is going to experience CRAP TONS of camping increase over this.

At high tiers, I see a lot of sniping, and I see a lot of smoke camping, but I don't see a lot of sniping smoke camping.

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43 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

My guess is smoke still acts like a wall (subject to assured acquisition, of course) if you're not in it.  Not only is this sensible, it's probably easier to code as well.  My question is what happens if you have intervening smoke AND you're in a smoke cloud?

 

This will evolve new strategy and tactics.  Obviously, a wall of smoke at a cap corner next to land mass would make a nice place to set up shop just like the current dynamic.  The new counter tactics will involve spotter planes, CV spotters, and flanking the smoke.  Also, there will remain the strategy of smoking someone up so they can heal.  The tactic here is you simply cannot fire main weapon..well, at least until you heal.  Or, slowly back out to get the wall effect before doing so.

If you're right, C-shaped smoke clouds.  A ship sits in smoke at one end, and the intervening non-smoked water in the middle turns the other lobe of the C into a smoke wall protecting detection from at least one angle.  Tricky to pull off, and probably best around islands to protect detection from other directions, but I wouldn't put it past our unicum clans to try this out.

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I rarely use smoke, so it doesn't bother me one bit.    C shaped smokes are hard to pull off due to  how long smoke is emitted, and subject to planes and angle.     

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Well, all i can say is I look forward to seeing less smoke hate threads when it comes out and everything blows over.

 

 

Nahh, who am I kidding...

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5 minutes ago, centarina said:

I rarely use smoke, so it doesn't bother me one bit.    C shaped smokes are hard to pull off due to  how long smoke is emitted, and subject to planes and angle.     

According to the OP and my reading of the PTS announcement (which could be a bit better worded), air detection is unaffected by the new smoke bloom mechanics - planes still will not detect ships in smoke.

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3 minutes ago, Lillehuntrix said:

According to the OP and my reading of the PTS announcement (which could be a bit better worded), air detection is unaffected by the new smoke bloom mechanics - planes still will not detect ships in smoke.

not if you are behind it,  you still may be detected depending on angle  and how the smoke is laid.  it is just lot harder to cover being behind vs in the smoke.

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Still allows DDs to park between multiple ships at 5-7kms yet be all but invulnerable unless a teammate is willing to banzai into a torpwall; MM being kind enough to provide ships with usable counters otherwise, well.....

I don't know what to suggest however as an alternative that might get implemented instead of the current mechanic allowing complete invisibility.

Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People

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