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PanzerIV_Ausf_G

UK BBs are being played at cruisers, all the do is fire HE

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Wargaming you need to Nerf the UK BB line, or just rename them heavy cruisers.   First of all even you got to know that BBs should be firing AP most of the time.  But you made the UK HE so powerful all the UK BBs do is fire HE like 90% of the time.  I seen them take 10,000 and 20,000 off other BBs that are angled and bow on and start fies at the same time firing HE.  That is just too powerful.   Please make the UK real BBs and not some fake HE toy ship.

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Been going on for a while sir, I know since 0.6.3, Many cruiser and DD captains went BB for more armor, due to the 20 second detect timer. All WG did was re-enforce the bad habit and further dumb down the game, further lowering the skill level of the average player

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16 minutes ago, PanzerIV_Ausf_G said:

Wargaming you need to Nerf the UK BB line, or just rename them heavy cruisers. .

What a reasonable and rational statement.

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Honestly I don't understand the uproar over RN BBs favoring one ammo type over another.  After all I can't remember the last time I even loaded HE while playing my KM BBs.  So it is fine that the other BBs will almost always use AP but not that the RN BBs will use HE instead?   Not sure I see the difference really...

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5 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

why?

 

M

He's a noob that thinks he's being smart by discovering that AP sometimes does more damage then HE.

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10 minutes ago, SmirkingGerbil said:

Historically, UK BB's had larger and more powerful HE rounds . . . just saying.

 

Historically no one used HE shells in naval warfare and superstructure fires were practically meaningless. 

 

Justifying poor gameplay with history is not a good approach. 

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20 minutes ago, PanzerIV_Ausf_G said:

First of all even you got to know that BBs should be firing AP most of the time.  

 

Wrong.

You fire the round that will be most effective for damaging your target ALL of the time. For a bow on, angled BB that's usually going to be HE, for a broadside BB that's going to be AP. I swap between  types at need, as should you.

Stop whining about OP and go play a Brit BB to learn their weaknesses. There's plenty.

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4 minutes ago, Moonrider said:

 

Wrong.

You fire the round that will be most effective for damaging your target ALL of the time. For a bow on, angled BB that's usually going to be HE, for a broadside BB that's going to be AP. I swap between  types at need, as should you.

Stop whining about OP and go play a Brit BB to learn their weaknesses. There's plenty.

:Smile_great:

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3 minutes ago, Moonrider said:

 

Wrong.

You fire the round that will be most effective for damaging your target ALL of the time. For a bow on, angled BB that's usually going to be HE, for a broadside BB that's going to be AP. I swap between  types at need, as should you.

Stop whining about OP and go play a Brit BB to learn their weaknesses. There's plenty.

/sarcasm

WRONG.

Don't you know cruisers should be firing AP most of the time?  AND should be renamed Battleships!

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32 minutes ago, PanzerIV_Ausf_G said:

Wargaming you need to Nerf the UK BB line, or just rename them heavy cruisers.   First of all even you got to know that BBs should be firing AP most of the time.  But you made the UK HE so powerful all the UK BBs do is fire HE like 90% of the time.  I seen them take 10,000 and 20,000 off other BBs that are angled and bow on and start fies at the same time firing HE.  That is just too powerful.   Please make the UK real BBs and not some fake HE toy ship.

 

 

You were in your Nikolai of (Balans) trying to murder a Dookie-True and bow on to me, so of course I lit you up like the British equivalent of the 4th of July. Had you showed me any side at all I would have switched to AP.

 

Orion is probably too strong but since you were in a Nikolai .....welp..... :Smile_sceptic:

 

Edited by why_u_heff_to_be_mad

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Fire Prevention, Basics of Survivability, Superintendent, High Alert, DCM1, DCM2, fire duration reduction flag, increased hp regeneration flag, premium DCP and heal.  If you've taken all those and are still being overwhelmed by the soft HE and fire damage from RN BBs, then it seems to me we can have a conversation.  If you are not willing to take all of those because you'd rather have some other build, then I expect the RN BBs are working as intended, i.e., forcing you to make a choice in your build as to what danger (fire, torpedoes, aircraft) you wish to prioritize.

 

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all based on their early performance to see some aspects of RN BB HE nerfed, but I don't suspect the nerf will be hard enough to change the fundamental identity of the ships or completely eliminate their strong HE.

Edited by Lillehuntrix

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3 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

Honestly I don't understand the uproar over RN BBs favoring one ammo type over another.  After all I can't remember the last time I even loaded HE while playing my KM BBs.  So it is fine that the other BBs will almost always use AP but not that the RN BBs will use HE instead?   Not sure I see the difference really...

Have you played any of the high (or just higher) tier UK BB?  Or watched any youtube videos closely enough to catch the subtleties of RN BB HE spamming?

A big part of the problem from what I've seen when watching those videos is that the RN BB's can fairly easily get a 2 fire volley out of a single volley, which usually causes the enemy BB to use up its damage control party (DCP).  DCP's function for 20 seconds and give you an immunity during that period, before being expended and going on the long cool down.  But those RN BB's will have reloads that exceed 20 seconds, so that period of immunity means nothing to them.  That RN BB then fires its next volley of HE, and any fires it gets (a fairly likely possibility, of course) will stick.  And the same will be true for the next few volleys.  So it's entirely possible for an RN BB to get 3 or 4 fires burning on an enemy BB and there's nothing the enemy BB can do to stop it.  Frankly, this is something that even the best fire starting cruisers rarely do, because their fire starting chances are so high and they'll always have to functionally skip a volley after a BB uses a DCP.

RN BB's take great advantage of this DCP/reload timing issue.  And nothing short of carrying premium DCP's (which I suspect most people already did before the RN BB's showed up) and speccing their BBs and captains for maximum anti-fire will do anything to counter RN BB HE spamming.  Well, I suppose one other thing could be for teams to put a maximum amount of effort and team work into killing any RN BB they can get into their gun sights ASAP.

Perhaps the worst is the tier 10 Conqueror, because of the choice of twelve 16" or eight 18" guns.  For HE spamming, the 16" guns are much more preferable for no other reason than the greater number of guns means a greater average number of hits, which in turn means a great average number of fires started.  If there was ever a desire to nerf just the Conqueror, the simplest one would be to remove the 16" guns and only allow the 18" guns, since it would reduce the number of guns by 4 and increase reload times (larger guns, longer reloads).

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4 minutes ago, Lillehuntrix said:

Fire Prevention, Basics of Survivability, Superintendent, High Alert, DCM1, DCM2, fire duration reduction flag, increased hp regeneration flag, premium DCP and heal.  If you've taken all those and are still being overwhelmed by the soft HE and fire damage from RN BBs, then it seems to me we can have a conversation.  If you are not willing to take all of those because you'd rather have some other build, then I expect the RN BBs are working as intended, i.e., forcing you to make a choice in your build as to what danger (fire, torpedoes, aircraft) you wish to prioritize.

 

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all based on their early performance to see some aspects of RN BB HE nerfed, but I don't suspect the nerf will be hard enough to change the fundamental identity of the ships or completely eliminate their strong HE performance.

 

Again. Go pay a Fuji and take on an Iron Duke with HE.   AP you should get eaten, they can use HE do the same.

 

Tier 5 I think most are talking about.

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6 minutes ago, Lillehuntrix said:

Fire Prevention, Basics of Survivability, Superintendent, High Alert, DCM1, DCM2, fire duration reduction flag, increased hp regeneration flag, premium DCP and heal.  If you've taken all those and are still being overwhelmed by the soft HE and fire damage from RN BBs, then it seems to me we can have a conversation.  If you are not willing to take all of those because you'd rather have some other build, then I expect the RN BBs are working as intended, i.e., forcing you to make a choice in your build as to what danger (fire, torpedoes, aircraft) you wish to prioritize.

 

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me at all based on their early performance to see some aspects of RN BB HE nerfed, but I don't suspect the nerf will be hard enough to change the fundamental identity of the ships or completely eliminate their strong HE.

Huntrix, I also mentioned speccing ships and captains for anti-fire work.  That said, I do think that there's a problem with that, because it just seems wrong to me that the existence of a single line of BBs being able to be so strong at something that it forces all BB players to spec their ships and captains to counter that one thing.  It removes any variety in ship and captain builds if there's an extreme need to only use anti-fire builds.

 

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23 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

Honestly I don't understand the uproar over RN BBs favoring one ammo type over another.  After all I can't remember the last time I even loaded HE while playing my KM BBs.  So it is fine that the other BBs will almost always use AP but not that the RN BBs will use HE instead?   Not sure I see the difference really...

 

REally?  You must be doing something wrorg with German BBs'

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5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Have you played any of the high (or just higher) tier UK BB?  Or watched any youtube videos closely enough to catch the subtleties of RN BB HE spamming?

A big part of the problem from what I've seen when watching those videos is that the RN BB's can fairly easily get a 2 fire volley out of a single volley, which usually causes the enemy BB to use up its damage control party (DCP).  DCP's function for 20 seconds and give you an immunity during that period, before being expended and going on the long cool down.  But those RN BB's will have reloads that exceed 20 seconds, so that period of immunity means nothing to them.  That RN BB then fires its next volley of HE, and any fires it gets (a fairly likely possibility, of course) will stick.  And the same will be true for the next few volleys.  So it's entirely possible for an RN BB to get 3 or 4 fires burning on an enemy BB and there's nothing the enemy BB can do to stop it.  Frankly, this is something that even the best fire starting cruisers rarely do, because their fire starting chances are so high and they'll always have to functionally skip a volley after a BB uses a DCP.

RN BB's take great advantage of this DCP/reload timing issue.  And nothing short of carrying premium DCP's (which I suspect most people already did before the RN BB's showed up) and speccing their BBs and captains for maximum anti-fire will do anything to counter RN BB HE spamming.  Well, I suppose one other thing could be for teams to put a maximum amount of effort and team work into killing any RN BB they can get into their gun sights ASAP.

Perhaps the worst is the tier 10 Conqueror, because of the choice of twelve 16" or eight 18" guns.  For HE spamming, the 16" guns are much more preferable for no other reason than the greater number of guns means a greater average number of hits, which in turn means a great average number of fires started.  If there was ever a desire to nerf just the Conqueror, the simplest one would be to remove the 16" guns and only allow the 18" guns, since it would reduce the number of guns by 4 and increase reload times (larger guns, longer reloads).

 

And what's stopping the player from letting 2 fires burn for a few seconds to enjoy fire immunity from the next salvo?  

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6 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

 

Again. Go pay a Fuji and take on an Iron Duke with HE.   AP you should get eaten, they can use HE do the same.

 

Tier 5 I think most are talking about.

To be fair, the Fuji and all RN CL's are particularly vulnerable to RN BB HE, due to their rather weak, even by cruiser standards, armor.  That said, while the people in the know have said to use RN BB HE vs BBs and AP vs cruisers, RN BB HE is so strong that it can penetrate the armor of most cruisers (I think) and 10k damage volleys are not that difficult to regularly get.  And while that may not be as devastating as a double citadel strike with AP, those strong HE volleys are probably easier to achieve with consistency against cruisers.

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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Have you played any of the high (or just higher) tier UK BB?  Or watched any youtube videos closely enough to catch the subtleties of RN BB HE spamming?

 

Yes I have seen them, I do play mostly tier X matches and I am about to hit tier VII in my RN BB.  Sure their fire chance is high and that might need to be adjusted as they are much higher than similar tiered BBs.  I never said their HE is balanced, my point is there is no difference between them favoring one ammo type over another while every other BB does the same with AP.

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5 minutes ago, Sventex said:

 

And what's stopping the player from letting 2 fires burn for a few seconds to enjoy fire immunity from the next salvo?  

Nothing will stop them, but from what I've seen, most players instinctively reach for the DCP button when they see that they have two fires.  They don't think about it.  Regardless... So you let yourself burn with 2 fires rather than put it out.  The RN BB is just laughing his way to the bank.  They keep pounding away with HE, probably get a 3rd and perhaps a 4th fire.  You eventually say enough's enough and put it out.  And the same thing ends up happening.  After the 20 second immunity wears off, the RN BB just starts the fire dance all over again.

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Just now, Crucis said:

Nothing will stop them, but from what I've seen, most players instinctively reach for the DCP button when they see that they have two fires.  They don't think about it.  Regardless... So you let yourself burn with 2 fires rather than put it out.  The RN BB is just laughing his way to the bank.  They keep pounding away with HE, probably get a 3rd and perhaps a 4th fire.  You eventually say enough's enough and put it out.  And the same thing ends up happening.  After the 20 second immunity wears off, the RN BB just starts the fire dance all over again.

I have no sympathy to the player that doesn't think.

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4 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

 

Yes I have seen them, I do play mostly tier X matches and I am about to hit tier VII in my RN BB.  Sure their fire chance is high and that might need to be adjusted as they are much higher than similar tiered BBs.  I never said their HE is balanced, my point is there is no difference between them favoring one ammo type over another while every other BB does the same with AP.

Of course there's a difference.  AP has no DOT effect.  HE does.  That's a huge difference!!!  Also, HE is easier to use, since it can be used effectively no matter what angle the enemy BB is showing to you.  AP can't do that.  Another huge difference.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

Sure their fire chance is high and that might need to be adjusted as they are much higher than similar tiered BBs.

And that's the crux.. yes it IS higher, but their AP potential is lower and more frequent shatters..  so therefore whilst not the same as current BB's.. still balanced..  but it means people have to THINK when playing against these ships now and maybe have a different strategy in place.  BECAUSE they are not the same, people go crazy and yet all the time they are yelling for change as all the sameness is getting boring..

M

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4 minutes ago, Sventex said:

I have no sympathy to the player that doesn't think.

This isn't about thinking.  It doesn't matter what you think when you're the target of that RN BB HE spam.  There's no good way to prevent being the smores at the RN BB's barbeque, short of sinking him before he can burn you to a crisp.  And that's easier said than done.

 

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