Fighters' dogfights

[Citrusss]

Hi lads, 

 

got a question: are all dogfights random? I cannot see how else I could lose to inferior fighters in a dogfight without any AA support.once I lost 3 (!!) squads on my Essex fighters to 1 stock Essex fighters far away from any ship with considerable AAA. My captain skills and modules are all for fighter's superiority. But sometimes just "poof" and they disappear. Never seen anything like that even driving my DM and having a focused strike on my be a carrier. 

 

How do they work?

[Spartias]

There was likely a ship hidden in smoke that was a dedicated AA boat.

 

Also...

 

Some ships with great AA can actually fire AA from stealth.

[AdmiralHattori]

There is a possibility that you were dogfighting within a Minotaur's long range AA. Minotaur's AA range is quite far (I don't own one but I think they can go up to around 10 km?) and strong so at times you might of not noticed it. Or you might of hit the RNG lottery of losing 3 squads to 1.

[Citrusss]

Just now, Spartias said:

There was likely a ship hidden in smoke that was a dedicated AA boat. Some ships with great AA can actually fire AA from stealth.

I check for that. At tiers 8-10 there are very few ships which can do AA fire from stealth and that window is very narrow anyway. 

[Citrusss]

Just now, AdmiralHattori said:

There is a possibility that you were dogfighting within a Minotaur's long range AA. Minotaur's AA range is quite far (I don't own one but I think they can go up to around 10 km?) and strong so at times you might of not noticed it. Or you might of hit the RNG lottery of losing 3 squads to 1.

That's what I am willing to know: is dogfight all RNG or is it all math. (no Mino that match and many other)

[DeadManxDan]

4 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

I check for that. At tiers 8-10 there are very few ships which can do AA fire from stealth and that window is very narrow anyway. 

Akizuki, Harakaze, Benson, Lo yang.  Best way to get a solid answer is to have the replay available.

[Spartias]

12 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

I check for that. At tiers 8-10 there are very few ships which can do AA fire from stealth and that window is very narrow anyway. 

 

It only takes one.

[AhosChaos]

Gearing and Fletcher (both AA specced)with DF can fire from stealth and with MFCAA can take a few planes, but not a full squadron especially if it they are firing from stealth.  Dogfights are random to an extent, but to lose 3 full squadrons to 1 tier 8 squadron is highly unlikely.  Then if you say you have AS and all of the fighter perks, it is even more unlikely.  The only real possibility is that hie strafed out and caught 2 of your fighters coming in then strafed again, but I'm sure you would have seen that.  Even then 2 strafes from tier 8 fighters, a damaged squadron at that, will not be able to take out a tier 9 squadron in 2 strafes.  

 

A replay is really needed to fully understand.

[Citrusss]

can't open a replay - game client crashes for some reason when i try several different one to find one the most representative. This situationhappens quite often if not with lower tier fighters but others as well. 

I will see if something similar will happen and share a replay.

[TornadoADV]

Dogfights are generally whoever's HP bucket fills quickest due to RNG and loses a aircraft from the formation. So you can get some real terrible rolls that see one of your fighters instantly shot down when they start pursuing strike aircraft for example. It's about as archaic as how AA functions in this game.

[WanderingGhost]

29 minutes ago, Citrusss said:

Hi lads, 

 

got a question: are all dogfights random? I cannot see how else I could lose to inferior fighters in a dogfight without any AA support.once I lost 3 (!!) squads on my Essex fighters to 1 stock Essex fighters far away from any ship with considerable AAA. My captain skills and modules are all for fighter's superiority. But sometimes just "poof" and they disappear. Never seen anything like that even driving my DM and having a focused strike on my be a carrier. 

 

How do they work?

 

The "sometimes poof" would make me say that it's strafe, regardless of tier a player uses that it can auto delete planes. Unbalanced as hell.

 

If that's not the case, the ONLY scenario I can see that happening, with no AA, is that he has a full out fighter build, all moder. slots that can buffing fighter performance, AS, DFE, the works, and you have little or none of that, giving him enough of an edge in HP and DPS to match/surpass your planes and win.

 

While there is a measure of RNG, there is some science to it. But the only time normally without AA and strafe used a lower tier group wins is lower tier USN vs higher tier IJN, because national fighter balance is that warped and tier balance warped to a point the top 3 tiers were isolated (as well as CV vs other ship balance) that, barring the previous exception, higher tier fighters always win, beyond maybe the rarest stroke of luck. With the only other possible exception being as I said they have full fighter build and you have nothing toward fighters.

 

If it's not strafe, a straight up fighter build vs you not having the fighter upgrades at all, or, as we've eliminated you playing IJN as you say Essex, we'd have to have a replay to figure it out because either it is the worst RN possible foryou, and even mine is not that bad, or something is fishy. 

[AlcatrazNC]

I think it's because of RNG. I had some games with my IJN CV where sometime i lose like 2 planes but delete a full US fighter squadron and the next game, i lose my entire squadron against 2 planes of the same US fighter. 

[Rilak]

I'm always losing my fighters if left unattended. 1 strafe and 2-3 squads can get erased or down to 1 plane.  You look at them and they are now in a standard fight.  But In reality they got straffed 1st then dogfight.