GZ Air dominance load out

[GreyFox78659]

5f/0/0

 

with her awesome secondaries able reach out and touch something. This actually is an option.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

I like the idea, though the fighters would stlll need a buff to be anything other than scouts/defensive soaks/ in order to compete fairly for air superiority/. As for the secondaries, to truly make them a viable mid game offensive tactic (rather then a hilarious and superbly enjoyable end game finisher of annoying cruisers and dds), they need their unbuffed 10 km range restored, if not increased to 12-15km. Currently sitting at 6.6km, secondaries have insufficent reach.

[GreyFox78659]

8 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I like the idea, though the fighters would stlll need a buff to be anything other than scouts/defensive soaks/ in order to compete fairly for air superiority/. As for the secondaries, to truly make them a viable mid game offensive tactic (rather then a hilarious and superbly enjoyable end game finisher of annoying cruisers and dds), they need their unbuffed 10 km range restored, if not increased to 12-15km. Currently sitting at 6.6km, secondaries have insufficent reach.

Agree totally 5f/0/0 and her current load I think would be perfect now

[pewpewpew42]

I think WG wouldn't go that far (4/0/1?), but it's a solid idea. +1

[GreyFox78659]

It's better than 222.

[Grathew]

Unless the Graf gets an armor and stealth improvement the damage you would put out with your secondries would be incredibly low when compared to even an AS Lexington. Sure you would win the air war but the damage you wouldn't be doing would hinder your team. So I'd stick with 2/0/3, hopefully I could do 2/0/2-2 with four dive bomber squads two loaded with AP for the big boys and two loaded with HE for the smaller ones. 

[GreyFox78659]

4 minutes ago, Grathew said:

Unless the Graf gets an armor and stealth improvement the damage you would put out with your secondries would be incredibly low when compared to even an AS Lexington. Sure you would win the air war but the damage you wouldn't be doing would hinder your team. So I'd stick with 2/0/3, hopefully I could do 2/0/2-2 with four dive bomber squads two loaded with AP for the big boys and two loaded with HE for the smaller ones. 

Well currently she is good enough to finish off battleships with secondaries in coop. She can pretty much hold a cap as is as long as she doesn't encounter heavy armor and guns. Even then she can spot them first and runaway.

[Grathew]

Try it in random battles and give me the results. I'm doubting the effectiveness. Also the problem isn't the battleships but rather the cruisers who could spot you first but deal way more damage. Also they could currently sit outside of your secondary range and still spot you shelling you with impunity. Hence why I say you need to buff the range to at least the minimum spotting range or and buff the armor to make that a truly viable option. 

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

5 hours ago, Grathew said:

Try it in random battles and give me the results. I'm doubting the effectiveness. Also the problem isn't the battleships but rather the cruisers who could spot you first but deal way more damage. Also they could currently sit outside of your secondary range and still spot you shelling you with impunity. Hence why I say you need to buff the range to at least the minimum spotting range or and buff the armor to make that a truly viable option. 

In co op the secondaries are powerful enough to finish off an over confident cruiser, but their range is insufficient to contribute to fleet action. Sadly. Much to campaign for during the GZ rework.

Ships can't sit out of your range, because GZ is quite fast @ 32km+, while cruisers and dds have to WASD to effectively fire torps, torps which have already lost 90% of their hit chance because you are bow on to their potential spread, as you cry "Bring me closer, let's cuddle!" So we can close the distance, if disciplined.

I have after action report screenshots, but need to remember to screenshot in game action, promise, unforgettable stuff that needs sharing.

[Grathew]

A smart cruiser wouldn't try to torpedo a target chasing them if they were spotted. For example Mogami does 34.5 knots, with two rear facing turrets means that a Mogami could kite you incidentally, setting fires and keeping both your and the secondaries attention while another ship blaps you for sailing straight lines. Your average IJN DD could torpedo you from stealth from with in your secondary range, even if you aren't like me and running AFT, Secondary mod and flag for the 9.4 km range secondaries with laser guided shells. Also any human player would simply drift farther away if you started to get the upper hand, or close in for a torpedo shank. Best case for Graf would be with speed flag chasing down a New Orleans, or Hipper/Prinz Eugen as those are the only cruisers who can't out run you with out runing a speed flag of their own. As Hipper and Eugen are the same ship, I see two viable targets you could maybe run down if they weren't trying to kite you. Of those two targets one of them has 6km torpedoes. Which means that with the more stock secondary range they would have a minimal amount of risk to engage you with torpedoes. Also note Atago, Takao, Mogami and Edinburgh could torpedo you from stealth. There are four cruisers who could launch torpedoes at you before you know they were even there. Which since Graf's best detection range is 11.4km they have to line up a shot, drop at near max then angle to hide the torpedo launch and open up on you. All from outside of secondary gun range.

Destroyers on the other hand shouldn't have any trouble killing a Graf. Almost all the destroyers you could come a cross can stealth torpedo you. All of them have better detection so you can go screaming "Bring me closer, let's cuddle!" all you want, but if they play smart and avoid dropping into detection range you won't find them with out aircraft. Depending upon the destroyer in question you may not be able to detect them from the air before they could get multiple salvos of torpedoes off. And if all you have is fighters the destroyer may just ignore that their spotted if you can't shoot them and open up with their own guns. 

Thus the only class of surface vessels you can catch would be the battleships. While your citadel protection is good I doubt anything other than a battleship on the most minimalist sliver of health wouldn't come out on top. At best I would say you trade. 

 

As I've said before Graf's secondaries make Graf able to be safe where other carriers couldn't be. If they buffed that a lot, so you could shoot your secondaries past your base detection with roughly the same accuracy, and added some armor then yes you could forgo bombers and still do well. Otherwise you need bombers, as Graf won't have the damage, speed, survavability or stealth to put those secondaries to work. I doubt that is the direction that WG takes Graf, I could see Graf getting 11.3km secondaries with mod and skills and flag couple that with strong enough bombers and fighters to hold his own in the air, maybe up range the AA a little or/and let defensive fire effect the 105 mm guns and suddenly you have an interesting supporting carrier, that can risk taking damage to directly support the fleet. Which would be historically accurate if I am remembering the design outline correctly.  

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

The only destroyer I am currently afraid is the Shimakaze, even bow on, avoiding a well planned 7km out torp spread is a nightmare. It is quite hard to (successfully) torp me from stealth, at best you may get one torp to hit if I am lazy/ Getting close to GZ (seen or unseen) which has a constant quite fast turnaround of planes, and so constant eyes up in the sky, is not easy for a DD, quite impossible for a heavy cruiser such as Atago. The only cruisers that have dared get close have been CLs, and I have made mincemeat of them in a combination of secondaries and dive bombing attacks.

[Grathew]

But the whole point of this thread was a 5 fighter only load out for Graf Zeppelin. If there was only fighters there wouldn't be dive bombers to help deal with the heavy cruisers. Which is my point, unless they did something massive to either the secondaries or armor or stealth or a combination of a few of those variables you would be a sitting duck for cruisers. Even with my 9.4 km build I still struggle to keep up with most cruisers in damage out put on secondaries alone. 

[IJN_Yamato_BB17]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 3:38 AM, nuttybiscuit said:

I like the idea, though the fighters would stlll need a buff to be anything other than scouts/defensive soaks/ in order to compete fairly for air superiority/. As for the secondaries, to truly make them a viable mid game offensive tactic (rather then a hilarious and superbly enjoyable end game finisher of annoying cruisers and dds), they need their unbuffed 10 km range restored, if not increased to 12-15km. Currently sitting at 6.6km, secondaries have insufficent reach.

Her base secondary range was 7.5 km. I agree that this needs to be restored and at the same time all mid to high tier carriers base secondary range be upped at least 6 km.