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GeneralNaruto

British Penetration question

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Ok I am a bad person. My mind went right to the gutter when I saw the title.

 

Oh and BTW. British AP at least on the Iron Duke works just fine.

Edited by IronWolfV

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On 8/31/2017 at 8:17 PM, Carl said:

Got it done tonight. Here you go:

 

bCsvMFs.png

"Grober"

I can't take this chart seriously

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11 minutes ago, imweasel said:

Might help with pens on cruisers and certainly russian dds.

There is no BB HE that needs IFHE to pen any Russian DD, let alone BBs that have built in 1/4 HE pens.

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40 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

Ok I am a bad person. My mind went right to the gutter when I saw the title.

 

Oh and BTW. British AP at least on the Iron Duke works just fine.

 

 

                                                                  1v6rd5.jpg

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On 8/31/2017 at 3:46 PM, Doomlock said:

Considering their short fuse times it has a hard time citadeling ships that aren't cruisers, but it does lead to less overpens though.

 

It's just... "bleh" for the effort.  Even on Conqueror, last night I switched back to 457mm to sling AP like a "Good BB," but it's very unreliable.  The chart being tossed around showing the penetrations is nice and all, but in practice, the RN BB AP, even for the 457, is disappointing.

 

There is also the undeniable fact, that no matter what, the 457mm will never have the same LOLPEN ability as Yamato.  That is another hit against Conq's 457.

 

I mean, why use 8 guns with unreliable penetration power?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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9 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

I didn't mean that the fuse would cause it to not detonate, but rather the fuse time maybe is why AP is still considered to be under preforming, even though it has decent pen values at higher tiers.

 

 

Ahh,ok, i've heard a few people, including jingles, assume that the fuse can cause the shell to go off before it penetrates.I can't really explain why people are having such bad times. But it's not an issue with penetrating the targets at high tiers, (At T8 and below it absolutely is, QE has the best outside of T9&10 tier for tier). Without more info i can't really solve it for anyone.

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5 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

 

Ahh,ok, i've heard a few people, including jingles, assume that the fuse can cause the shell to go off before it penetrates.I can't really explain why people are having such bad times. But it's not an issue with penetrating the targets at high tiers, (At T8 and below it absolutely is, QE has the best outside of T9&10 tier for tier). Without more info i can't really solve it for anyone.

I assume it's because people are used to aiming for the belt to get Cits and I assume that is just not a valid tactic on RN BBs.

 

IDK, I'm grinding QE atm, makes me long for my Warspite. If only I could use it to grind the exp.

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On 8/31/2017 at 3:19 PM, GeneralNaruto said:

Does anyone know off the top of their head or have the numbers as to how much penetration each British battleship has with its AP and HE? Or is there a way to tell in port how much armor each shell type can pen?

 

The British BB AP has a fuse delay of 0.15 sec vs the AP of most other BBs of 0.33 sec.  This is why you're less likely to get overpens on Cruisers or thinly armored parts of BBs, but will get more shatters depending on range and armor characteristics on more heavily armored portions of BBs.   The penetration characteristics you're asking about are functions of shell angle (for AP) and distance and are performance curves, so there's no simple in-port general answer.

 

As for HE shells, British BBs have the German BB formula of 1/4 the shell diameter of armor penetration (HE shells don't care what angle it hits the ship).

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13 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

I assume it's because people are used to aiming for the belt to get Cits and I assume that is just not a valid tactic on RN BBs.

 

IDK, I'm grinding QE atm, makes me long for my Warspite. If only I could use it to grind the exp.

 

Yeah but on the high tiers that dosen;t apply. They have way more pen than they need to get there. only Yamato has better pen than the british 419mm and 457mm guns.

 

5 minutes ago, hangglide42 said:

 

The British BB AP has a fuse delay of 0.15 sec vs the AP of most other BBs of 0.33 sec.  This is why you're less likely to get overpens on Cruisers or thinly armored parts of BBs, but will get more shatters depending on range and armor characteristics on more heavily armored portions of BBs.   The penetration characteristics you're asking about are functions of shell angle (for AP) and distance and are performance curves, so there's no simple in-port general answer.

 

As for HE shells, British BBs have the German BB formula of 1/4 the shell diameter of armor penetration (HE shells don't care what angle it hits the ship).

 

A short shell fuse cannot cause shatters or bounces.

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1 minute ago, Carl said:

 

Yeah but on the high tiers that dosen;t apply.

 

 

A short shell fuse cannot cause shatters or bounces.

 

Actually, it does.  Depending on the armor profile, distance, etc., the short fuse will cause the shell to detonate before penetration - which is counted in-game as a shatter.

Edited by hangglide42

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8 hours ago, hangglide42 said:

Actually, it does.  Depending on the armor profile, distance, etc., the short fuse will cause the shell to detonate before penetration - which is counted in-game as a shatter.

 

No it won't, thats physically impossible, the shell would have to be doing less than 30 meters per second for that to happen. And if by some weird situation it was, it would bounce due to insufficient penetration.

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20 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

No it won't, thats physically impossible, the shell would have to be doing less than 30 meters per second for that to happen. And if by some weird situation it was, it would bounce due to insufficient penetration.

 

We can agree to disagree, but the ribbons you're credited w/ in game count this as a shatter.  The bounce ribbons happen depending upon the incident angle of your AP shell as it hits your armor  + a rotational factor (as the shell hits your armor, the effect of the nose hitting the armor digs in a bit causing the shell to rotate & changes it's actual impact angle slightly) w/ most ships triggering autobounce mechanics at about 60 degrees.

 

You may not agree w/ how to handle it but this is what the game does.

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2 hours ago, hangglide42 said:

 

We can agree to disagree, but the ribbons you're credited w/ in game count this as a shatter.  The bounce ribbons happen depending upon the incident angle of your AP shell as it hits your armor  + a rotational factor (as the shell hits your armor, the effect of the nose hitting the armor digs in a bit causing the shell to rotate & changes it's actual impact angle slightly) w/ most ships triggering autobounce mechanics at about 60 degrees.

 

You may not agree w/ how to handle it but this is what the game does.

 

Your completely not understanding what's going on in game at all.

 

Auto Bounce has absolutely nothing to do with shell fusing, the two don't interact at all. If you auto bounce no shell fusing check is made.

 

A bounce or a shatter occurs in exactly two situations:

 

1. You have insufficient penetration to penetrate the plate.

 

2. You autobounce.

 

Neither of those things is effected in any way by shell fusing values.

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31 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

Your completely not understanding what's going on in game at all.

 

Auto Bounce has absolutely nothing to do with shell fusing, the two don't interact at all. If you auto bounce no shell fusing check is made.

 

A bounce or a shatter occurs in exactly two situations:

 

1. You have insufficient penetration to penetrate the plate.

 

2. You autobounce.

 

Neither of those things is effected in any way by shell fusing values.

 

Carl - my posting had nothing to do w/ autobounce originally, you brought it up in your response which I tried to correct your misconception.  Autobounce refers to the angle of AP shell impact incidence that automatically bounces (I.e. Autobounce) which happens on most ships at close to 60 degrees.   You're confusing a shell's bounce characteristics (which is what is counted in the ribbon depicting a bounce) w/ autobounce.

 

The whole point of my original response was that if you have the British short fused AP exploding before penetration - the game counts that as a shatter.  Don't know what else to say - I'm just stating how the game scores it - you can file a bug if you disagree w/ how it works, but I can't change a fact.

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and what i'm telling you is the fusing mechanics make it physically impossible for it to explode before penetration, except in cases where it has insufficient penetration to get through the plate.

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