Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Soshi_Sone

Clan Power

15 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,865
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,776 posts
12,891 battles

I'm not part of a clan, but as I've played the game I make note of those that I see.  There are several clans that contain superior players.  This is a direct observation by me based on the games I've played.  Although I don't keep stats, I can say that when I see those tags on my team, my win rate is high.  When I see them on the opposing team, my win rate suffers.  And, of course, sometimes there is balancing talent and or a balancing clan.  Even a good bit of internecine engagements.  

 

As folks have said many times...it's not the simple fact there is a "clan" or a "division".  It's the caliber players in the clan or division.  When 25% of your players are not only "good" (or great) in general, but are divisioned for coordinated play, that's a BIG plus if they're on your team and big minus if you're up against 'em.

 

Again, just an observation over time.

 

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56
[JASH]
Members
385 posts
5,187 battles

I think this is a function of people playing in divisions together more than just being good and in a clan.  If you have a division of 3 people working together on your team it helps tremendously.  I've only played in a division for a small portion of my games, but my win rate is always significantly higher than usual when playing in a div.  Communication for the win, who knew....

 

I'd also suggest that for those of you who care about win rate, don't play shitfaced at 3am ET.

 

 

Edited by murf4321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
205
[RIPQP]
WoWS Wiki Editor, Supertester
725 posts
7,647 battles

FratStar or Pope_Shizzle (I forget who, maybe it wasn't even one of these...) made a post a long long time ago about how a division of players with certain win rates will have a "combined" win rate several times higher than their individual win rates. 

 

I don't remember the actual math, but even a division of three 50% players will have an effective WR of 60% or more. The higher the individual WR's, the higher the effective WR.

 

Speaking from experience, a division of three ~60% players can easily run a 80%+ WR, if not higher, if they are unopposed by another equal or better division.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
942
Members
4,452 posts
6,152 battles

In the pubs if you are unlucky enough (it's random of course) to come up against these clan buddies several times in a row but have none on your team you can lose a batch of games in a row.  Happened to me a week ago on Sat night.  Lost over 10+ in A ROW. Kept getting on the teams with no one hooked up.  It was slaughter after slaughter. They love to come down to the lower ties and club. It's legal and players like to division with their buddies so I understand. It can just be brutal however at times. Just have to accept it.  Of course you can get a run of matches with them on your side so it all evens out I guess. WoT has so much of this "platooning" of guys with 30,000 + games who club in the low tiers that it just can make it hell on new players. Drives many of them away from the game real fast. I could of course join a clan but it's just not my thing.  Just do my best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56
[JASH]
Members
385 posts
5,187 battles

I feel like people downtier because high tier games are campy and unfun.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,708
[HINON]
WoWS Wiki Editor, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers
6,498 posts
3,751 battles

It has to do with the fact that they are talking to each other, either via comms, discord, chat, etc, and can trust each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,672
[OO7]
Members
2,229 posts
9,694 battles
48 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I'm not part of a clan, but as I've played the game I make note of those that I see.  There are several clans that contain superior players.  This is a direct observation by me based on the games I've played.  Although I don't keep stats, I can say that when I see those tags on my team, my win rate is high.  When I see them on the opposing team, my win rate suffers.  And, of course, sometimes there is balancing talent and or a balancing clan.  Even a good bit of internecine engagements.  

 

As folks have said many times...it's not the simple fact there is a "clan" or a "division".  It's the caliber players in the clan or division.  When 25% of your players are not only "good" (or great) in general, but are divisioned for coordinated play, that's a BIG plus if they're on your team and big minus if you're up against 'em.

 

Again, just an observation over time.

 

 

Absolutely.  In fact, it acts as a doubling effect.  Meaning if you stack three unicum players on a team, not only does that team have a huge advantage with the production capability of those three, it also blocks 3 tomatoes from filling those spots which amplifies the impact.

 

The same happens in the other direction too.  When you have three clan buddies who are very below average players (45% or lower win rate players) divisioned on your team or the enemy team, it's again a double impact.  The team is already facing a monster uphill battle to pull out a win, but those three spots are also blocking unicum players from filling those spots.  Again, it has an amplifying effect.  It's even worse than fail divisions (classic definition of mixed tier divisions) which is why I also call them fail divisions because their mere presence is drastically increasing their team's probability of losing the match.

 

You can say that being on TS or other VOIP communication just adds to the impact of unicums, but that's kind of already factored in to the equation as to why they produce the results they produce.  Tomatoes using TS doesn't really have much of an impact because they aren't really using it effectively to coordinate and execute strategy to improve their game play.  It's more of just a tool for socializing.  Not that Unicums aren't socializing, unicums do both.

 

Just to be clear, there is no right or wrong here per say, both scenarios have equal right under the ToS to play the way they play and division with whomever they wish to division with.  For those that care about winning as a team regardless if they are try-hards or super casual players or anyone in-between, if given a choice, they would clearly rather have the capable players on their team.  So common sense would suggest that it's probably not the most "thoughtful of others" approach to create a division of three very below average players.  If I was a below average player, I would never div with two others like me unless it was co-op.  I see 12 people on a team and my first thought is always "The larger group's needs come before my own."  That's what being in a team is all about, at least that's how I was raised.

Edited by VGLance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,619
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,711 posts
11,332 battles

Mostly I see a tag and assume they are average players (like myself), but there are a few tags that if I see a div of... I assume they are going to win the match for which ever team lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,065
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,674 posts
9,998 battles

If you're not cynically exploiting the matchmaking mechanics with your division you don't seem to be doing it right.

Back when div tiers weren't restricted to +/-1 I used to see a Ryujo/Kutuzov/Kutuzov division - guaranteed top tier for 2 of the 3 plus guaranteed strong AF AA on your team. By cycling through 2 of 3 of them were guaranteed to be top tier, which is much better than average.

Just divisioning with a carrier, and therefore knowing that the red team will have one (and speccing/skilling accordingly) is incredibly strong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,763
Members
9,864 posts
1 hour ago, murf4321 said:

I think this is a function of people playing in divisions together more than just being good and in a clan.  If you have a division of 3 people working together on your team it helps tremendously.  I've only played in a division for a small portion of my games, but my win rate is always significantly higher than usual when playing in a div.  Communication for the win, who knew....

 

I'd also suggest that for those of you who care about win rate, don't play shitfaced at 3am ET.

 

 

 

NO, it isn't. You see divisions all the time that don't play well, because they are simply average players.

The division advantage is for the competent and unicum players, and it's just another reason balance in MM is almost impossible to achieve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56
[JASH]
Members
385 posts
5,187 battles
6 minutes ago, awiggin said:

 

NO, it isn't. You see divisions all the time that don't play well, because they are simply average players.

The division advantage is for the competent and unicum players, and it's just another reason balance in MM is almost impossible to achieve.

False.  Playing in a division for all players helps the players in the division regardless of skill.

It is an advantage to playing in a division, there are literally no disadvantages. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,763
Members
9,864 posts
4 minutes ago, murf4321 said:

False.  Playing in a division for all players helps the players in the division regardless of skill.

It is an advantage to playing in a division, there are literally no disadvantages. 

 

 

Really? :Smile_facepalm:

First one I looked up, below average player with 17k games. Look at how much Divisions helped him....:Smile_teethhappy:

I can find more if you like, or you could actually do your own research....:cap_hmm:

 

Hhq3iIW.png

cBV3Vpr.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
217
[ZR]
Beta Testers
1,134 posts
12,631 battles
54 minutes ago, murf4321 said:

False.  Playing in a division for all players helps the players in the division regardless of skill.

It is an advantage to playing in a division, there are literally no disadvantages. 

 

Just because you play in a division does not mean you will win the game or even have any influence on the game. For example a division of 3 people that just bought the Tirpitz with zero game experience. Are they a help to the team or a hindrance? 3 skilled players in a division is a whole different thing but there will be games that they can't even carry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40
[T8ERS]
Members
40 posts
8,717 battles
41 minutes ago, KamiSamurai said:

Just because you play in a division does not mean you will win the game or even have any influence on the game. For example a division of 3 people that just bought the Tirpitz with zero game experience. Are they a help to the team or a hindrance? 3 skilled players in a division is a whole different thing but there will be games that they can't even carry. 

In other words :

Divisions are a force multiplier, independent of skill.

 

A division magnifies the influence of the players in the division, for better or worse. Bad players dont become good when they div, in fact they are worse than 3 solo players of similar skill level.

 

with 3 bad solo players there is a chance 1 or 2 will accidentally do something good. With a 3 man division of bad players they are much more likely to fail together at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,865
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,776 posts
12,891 battles
3 hours ago, murf4321 said:

I'd also suggest that for those of you who care about win rate, don't play shitfaced at 3am ET.

 

Who is "shitfaced" and what clan is he in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×