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renegadestatuz

New update on the deep water torps

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It would be much easier to memorize a ship type separation than a draft separation.

Although, with the draft separation, you would have had weaker, lower tier cruisers being unaffected by higher tier DW Torp.

Mogami, for instance, had a shallow enough draft to skim over the T10 DW torp.

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If they do add this into the game, i hope its not just an IJN  /Pan Asian trait. 

 

It would make no sense that the USN model torpedoes get DW models on the Pan asian line but not on the actual USN line. Knowing wargaming this is exactly what they will do. 

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1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:

It would be much easier to memorize a ship type separation than a draft separation.

Although, with the draft separation, you would have had weaker, lower tier cruisers being unaffected by higher tier DW Torp.

Mogami, for instance, had a shallow enough draft to skim over the T10 DW torp.

I think thats cool, It adds a nice layer of depth imo compared to the class based system. 

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It's interesting but personally, and not just cause I cruiser main, I feel like if the DD's get a damage boost against BB's from using these Torps, they shouldn't be able to hit cruisers. Or if they do, then it should come with reduced range, and that's given that a cruiser's role IS to kill DD's, that is their hard counter, and thus should not be susceptible to a new counter to the class to which DD's are a *supposed* to be a hard counter for, BB's. That said, either way, I'd hope most DD's take these torps so I can be a full on DD hunter without impunity in my Fletcher.

Also, I hope there is some sort of visual queue in game to which torp is coming at you, deep or not, in the same vain that you can visually tell HE from AP.

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The only thing this will do is keep DD's from torping each other.  Yay! DD's can only shoot each other thus giving them a 6 minute average time to live vs 5 minutes?  Of course that just means the majority of everyone on the map will just start the match off with HE and reduce that to 4 minutes average time to live...

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Was it possible to set/change run depth on torps manually in reality? Would be pretty cool to swap depth settings in game if that were something they could actually do IRL. 

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I'm waiting until these get further along before I form an opinion on DWT.

 

I will say before this announcement I wasn't interested in it at all.

 

With this announcement I'm much more interested.

Edited by Wulfgarn
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Yeah, the first method tested would be an automatic no-no from WG point of view..  way to much complexity and we know that the powers that be are NOT going to add complexity into the game. (sarcasm intended)

The second method is a cop out for just another gimmick to make a line different.  

I still would not play a DD that has restricted target capability with torps..  it restricts their role to much and in a DD v DD engagement, they won't be able to truly compete..  as it is, they will be useless at clearing other DD's from smoke in caps as their TT's will not be able to target those DD's.. therefore..  another gimmick which will gimp the class.

Look at it this way...  It is end of game and there is one DD on red team and one DD on green team..   Red team has an IJN DD left..  Green team has a Pan Asian DD left...    All the Red team has to do is play cat and mouse..  Green team has NO EFFECTIVE COUNTER with their weapons as the red team has guins and TT's  the green team guns only. 

Really, do we want a weapon that is useless at end game and gives a pretty much guaranteed win to the team not using it?

Didn't we see enough of unitended consequences with the GZ?

M

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I think that if WG are introducing them to target a certain class, then it makes sense for them to use the class divide rather than depth to measure.

 

Still not completely hooked as they are torpedoes and WG haven't exactly been kind in regards to them. I expect something like a low yield or loooong reload - there is no way WG is going to release an efficient, fast and reliable way of killing a BB (unless another BB).

 

However, this may get me logging back into the game again! 

 

Thank you renegadestatuz. :Smile_honoring:

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Personally, idk why they just don't lower det ranges on torps that we have now.

 

I know they need another gimmick and i assume they want only certain Types/Lines to have them, but dang.

 

Doesn't even need to be as low as they're testing, but somewhere around there. 

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Well, that answers a question I had in the back of my mind and I don't like it at all.  We're looking at a massive buff to DDs and a pretty nasty nerf to cruisers with the Pan Asian line right now.  An entire line with torpedoes you won't see until it's all but guaranteed they'll hit?  AND they work against all classes except DDS?  That'll work out great...  CVs can't really expect to dodge torps anyhow, BBs can heal to minimize damage, but cruisers are screwed here.  Most can't heal back damage, have no real torpedo protection system, and at most can take about two torpedoes before they're gone. 

And that's not even touching on DD vs DD balance now.  A Pan Asian DD won't be able to fight back against other DDs with torps.  Does that mean they're screwed in a knife fight, or are they crazy good gun boats as well?

The gimmicks are starting to get stale here, WG.

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3 minutes ago, Wardog_Noir said:

Well, that answers a question I had in the back of my mind and I don't like it at all.  We're looking at a massive buff to DDs and a pretty nasty nerf to cruisers with the Pan Asian line right now.  An entire line with torpedoes you won't see until it's all but guaranteed they'll hit?  AND they work against all classes except DDS?  That'll work out great...  CVs can't really expect to dodge torps anyhow, BBs can heal to minimize damage, but cruisers are screwed here.  Most can't heal back damage, have no real torpedo protection system, and at most can take about two torpedoes before they're gone. 

And that's not even touching on DD vs DD balance now.  A Pan Asian DD won't be able to fight back against other DDs with torps.  Does that mean they're screwed in a knife fight, or are they crazy good gun boats as well?

The gimmicks are starting to get stale here, WG.

Devs said in Gamescom interview that the Pan-Asia DDs will be mainly gunboat focused with good guns.

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Here's hoping the damage output is lower than regular torps, just to compensate for their reduced visibility.

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1 minute ago, renegadestatuz said:

Devs said in Gamescom interview that the Pan-Asia DDs will be mainly gunboat focused with good guns.

They are the same guns as USN from tier 8 onwards, so  good guns is "Good in close range, bad at long ranges."

 

Basically the top tier ships are USN DD's with dw torpedoes.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, renegadestatuz said:

Devs said in Gamescom interview that the Pan-Asia DDs will be mainly gunboat focused with good guns.

Of course, that really isn't surprising to hear.

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Since my Internet is down, I've been running Silent Hunter 4.  I have total control on torpedo settings.

They are set before firing.

Torpedo settings are Fast/Short-Range vs. Slow/Long-Range.

The depth setting is a separate adjustment based on what type of ship being attacked.  Tier 1 patrol vessels would be VERY shallow, while Battleships would run deeper to get under the belt-armor.  Detectability is also effected by depth for obvious reasons.

As designed, the US Magnetic Influence was supposed to trigger beneath the bottom of the ship, creating intense pressure, then cavitation, thus breaking the target ship in half.  It was a wonderful, and later perfected idea that simply wasn't debugged enough to work early in the war.  Furthermore, Japanese warship degaussing coils defeated the system by removing magnetic charges from the hull.  Even if Magnetic Influence worked, it could only be used against cargo ships. 

At the beginning of the war, US contact ignition mechanisms were only found to work at strike angles more than 45 degrees from a right angle hit.

Having to guess deep/shallow torps before battle, is like hard selecting HE or AP for your battleships before hitting the 'Battle' button.

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11 minutes ago, AVR_Project said:

Having to guess deep/shallow torps before battle, is like hard selecting HE or AP for your battleships before hitting the 'Battle' button.

Well other than for RN BB's... that's not that hard in 90% of cases. And to wit, just like a CA has to decide before battle to be DD hunting focused (Sonar+Radar for example) or AA/Support Focused (spotting/fighter craft+DFAA), I don't think it is an unfair ask for DD's to have to choose to be GP (general purpose) or Anti-Capital ship.

Edited by _RC1138

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34 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

Was it possible to set/change run depth on torps manually in reality? Would be pretty cool to swap depth settings in game if that were something they could actually do IRL. 

 

Yes it was, if you were shooting at a cruiser, BB, or CV you would set your torps to a deep setting, say 25' while if you were shooting at DD's your setting would be much shallower, say 15 feet. Deep running torpedoes would cause more damage to deep draft vessels while missing shallow draft vessels. The default setting would be the shallow setting which would hit everything but with a much reduced effect against armored deep draft vessels. I hope this is on a toggle and that shallow torps cause less damage to deep draft vessels.

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Just let ANY SHIP which has torps to select DW or SW (Shallow water) much like guns choose AP or HE.   Keep it simple and FAIR!  

 

Second thought...will CV Planes have this option as well???

Edited by dionkraft

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59 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

That said, either way, I'd hope most DD's take these torps so I can be a full on DD hunter without impunity in my Fletcher.

So you also see a future where only dedicated anti-DD boats will be mounting "standard" torps?

43 minutes ago, Wulfgarn said:

Personally, idk why they just don't lower det ranges on torps that we have now.

Because that would be admitting they should never have been nerfed in the first place, and the furball over iChase and the GZ should show everyone exactly how quick WoW is to admit it has made mistakes.

42 minutes ago, Wardog_Noir said:

The gimmicks are starting to get stale here, WG.

The "Gimmicks" have been stale here for a long time, like radar that sees through islands.

38 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Devs said in Gamescom interview that the Pan-Asia DDs will be mainly gunboat focused with good guns.

The tier 10 DD has a ROF over twice that of Gearing; same ship but fires over twice as fast.

36 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

They are the same guns as USN from tier 8 onwards

You need to re-read the gun specs if you believe that because they aren't the same at all.

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I see nothing wrong with torps that feel like an equivalent of shimakaze torps. It just means hydro will be that much more important if Vigilance simply doesn't buy enough time to evade. Will put cruisers in a tougher position, since they'll have to choose between DF or hydro more carefully since a Pan-Asia DD's DW torps doubtless ignore TDS.

 

Course, it'd be nice if DWT work well enough that T8-10 BB and CA rudders get buffed a bit. But doubt that'll ever happen.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

So you also see a future where only dedicated anti-DD boats will be mounting "standard" torps?

Because that would be admitting they should never have been nerfed in the first place, and the furball over iChase and the GZ should show everyone exactly how quick WoW is to admit it has made mistakes.

The "Gimmicks" have been stale here for a long time, like radar that sees through islands.

The tier 10 DD has a ROF over twice that of Gearing; same ship but fires over twice as fast.

You need to re-read the gun specs if you believe that because they aren't the same at all.

 

So chu mu has the exact same ROF as fletcher. 

Hsiang Yang has the exact same ROF as Gearing?

 

Am I missing something? 

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57 minutes ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Yeah, the first method tested would be an automatic no-no from WG point of view..  way to much complexity and we know that the powers that be are NOT going to add complexity into the game. (sarcasm intended)

The second method is a cop out for just another gimmick to make a line different.  

I still would not play a DD that has restricted target capability with torps..  it restricts their role to much and in a DD v DD engagement, they won't be able to truly compete..  as it is, they will be useless at clearing other DD's from smoke in caps as their TT's will not be able to target those DD's.. therefore..  another gimmick which will gimp the class.

Look at it this way...  It is end of game and there is one DD on red team and one DD on green team..   Red team has an IJN DD left..  Green team has a Pan Asian DD left...    All the Red team has to do is play cat and mouse..  Green team has NO EFFECTIVE COUNTER with their weapons as the red team has guins and TT's  the green team guns only. 

Really, do we want a weapon that is useless at end game and gives a pretty much guaranteed win to the team not using it?

Didn't we see enough of unitended consequences with the GZ?

M

To a point I agree.  But remember the Pan-Asian DDs are based on the USN lines, which generally good speed and superior guns to the IJN counter parts.

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