Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
MrDeaf

Why didn't WG try out weaker plating armor on RNBB?

36 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

2,927
[SYN]
Members
14,349 posts
10,218 battles

Quite a while back, WG tried out weaker plating armor to reduce BB camping in higher tiers, but this didn't work with the existing BBs, because none of them were particularly well suited for the task.

Enter RNBB, with a more cruiser like agility and stealth.
We all know most cruisers must use WASD, concealment and map knowledge to avoid taking damage, so why not RNBB?

RNBB will still have BB like belt armor, but I don't see why they need to feature BB levels of plating, when they already get cruiser levels of agility and stealth.

 

* "Plating armor" is the bow and stern section, as well as much of the deck and casemate sections.
If you don't know what I mean by "Plating armor", go look at the Armor viewer.

Edited by MrDeaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,616 posts
9,711 battles

And listen to the crapflinging howler monkeys spit and throw feces about their cage?

I think not.  Every BB line needs to have good cit protection because I need to play with my [edited] out, guns that shoot across the map because they need to scratch their [edited]on the border, AA levels to swat down any CV strike before it can drop, but still needs to be able to stop on a dime to avoid those pesky unavoidable homing torps which do way too much damage, and needs to be immune to fires, and HE spam in general.  We need to get a new ship every time we heal.  Need it.  Chicks dig clean paint jobs or something.  WG needs to get with the program.

Gotta live the one shot CA high life in my big sparkles boat.

*my apologies to crapflinging howler monkeys.  this post was written before my first cup of coffee.  you were just the first annoying little beast that popped into my head.

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,364
[-K-]
Members
5,038 posts
8,925 battles

My impression is that WG felt pressured to make the British BB's as strong as possible, while still remaining somewhat "balanced", or risk major backlash from the community due to their legendary status.  Hence the strong armor, almost untouchable citadel, super heal, and uber-HE shells at the higher tiers.  

 

If they would have made them simply equal to the USN or IJN, complaints probably would have been founded that they were boring, not unique enough, or didn't live up to the hype/legendary status of the Royal Navy regardless of the hyperbole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
975
[CTF80]
[CTF80]
Members
4,196 posts
10,139 battles
1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

And listen to the crapflinging howler monkeys spit and throw feces about their cage?

I think not.  Every BB line needs to have good cit protection because I need to play with my [edited] out, guns that shoot across the map because they need to scratch their [edited]on the border, AA levels to swat down any CV strike before it can drop, but still needs to be able to stop on a dime to avoid those pesky unavoidable homing torps which do way too much damage, and needs to be immune to fires, and HE spam in general.  We need to get a new ship every time we heal.  Need it.  Chicks dig clean paint jobs or something.  WG needs to get with the program.

Gotta live the one shot CA high life in my big sparkles boat.

*my apologies to crapflinging howler monkeys.  this post was written before my first cup of coffee.  you were just the first annoying little beast that popped into my head.

OMG....ROTFLMMFAO!!!!  You just described most BB players without error!  Much laughing for me...cannot even sip coffee right now. :cap_haloween::Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,616 posts
9,711 battles

Pure speculation after a few cups of coffee but it could be an issue with IFHE.  WG has to know this skill is broken, and has to design the new BBs armor to be balanced against this skill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
471 posts
1,992 battles
6 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

We all know how that would go. Maybe with the French BBs? One can only hope.

Well the Dunk has already kinda set a precedent for a bb with soft sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,257
[FOXEH]
Beta Testers
8,780 posts
14,775 battles
2 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

*my apologies to crapflinging howler monkeys.

in all honesty, that was the one part of the post I totally agreed with ...

WG/WoW has kind of shot itself in the foot with this "national flavor" twist on every line they release. Here we have a historical line with real ships for most of the tiers and the Devs have to balance between having to "listen to the crapflinging howler monkeys spit and throw feces about their cage" on one side if the ships are weak and/or do not adhere to historical play, and having to listen to "it's just another cookie cutter clone" if the ships weren't unique in their own way and have a distinct "national flavor".

IMHO (and ONLY my opinion) Wow should seriously review the entire policy of a "national flavor" to the ships they model and instead just try to make each ship as good as it was designed to be while maintaining a semblance of balance, which is obviously difficult enough without the damn bells and whistles needing to be thrown in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,927
[SYN]
Members
14,349 posts
10,218 battles
24 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Pure speculation after a few cups of coffee but it could be an issue with IFHE.  WG has to know this skill is broken, and has to design the new BBs armor to be balanced against this skill. 

That wouldn't explain why RNBB get a caliber/4 penetration on their HE shells.

I mean, it's as if they are encouraging you to use IFHE for lolcits with HE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49
[DACO]
Members
174 posts
9,212 battles

After free xp-ing my way through the AWFUL Queen Elizabeth and reaching the King Edward, it actually plays like a Scharnhorst.  Spam some HE every 25 seconds but not have any torpedo's and you're good to go.  I'm actually enjoying her and I don't feel anything is op, since I face many similar ships.  There was a lot of whining since BB's were using HE and the masses were crying.  Honestly, the same people [edited] no matter what....dam, it's a free game if you decided not to buy premium.  I enjoy the entertainment aspect so good job WG. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,475
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,408 posts
3,407 battles
1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

My impression is that WG felt pressured to make the British BB's as strong as possible, while still remaining somewhat "balanced", or risk major backlash from the community due to their legendary status.  Hence the strong armor, almost untouchable citadel, super heal, and uber-HE shells at the higher tiers.  

 

If they would have made them simply equal to the USN or IJN, complaints probably would have been founded that they were boring, not unique enough, or didn't live up to the hype/legendary status of the Royal Navy regardless of the hyperbole.

 

If anything though, RN BBs need a raised citadel from T8 onwards. Or keep a 72s traverse and relying on their better than average rudder shift to turn themselves around to help get the guns into play.

 

I do expect a nerf later on; for the time being though, having the RN BBs be this OP is just for easy money off the Teaboos before bringing the ships into line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,052
[OPG]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,871 posts
10,411 battles

I think giving them 28mm of armor plating on the bow and stern would be alright. That way you don't have biskos ruining your day, but anything else can. Although having fought conquerer in my Yamato, that thing is like how Montana used to be before it's deck armor was buffed. Yamato shells absolutely shred conquerer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
159
[LLMF]
Alpha Tester
1,219 posts

32mm is to allow "bow tanking".  Reducing nose armor would discourage it but then BB's would end up lasting slightly longer than DD's as BBs would need to fight angle on to mitigate pens.  Then the only fix would be to increase dispersion of main batteries, then they'd need to do the same for the laser guided cruiser ordinance, then they'd need to add duds to torpedoes to keep the DD's from being the only ships that can cause real damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,927
[SYN]
Members
14,349 posts
10,218 battles
8 minutes ago, StoptheViolins said:

32mm is to allow "bow tanking".  Reducing nose armor would discourage it but then BB's would end up lasting slightly longer than DD's as BBs would need to fight angle on to mitigate pens.  Then the only fix would be to increase dispersion of main batteries, then they'd need to do the same for the laser guided cruiser ordinance, then they'd need to add duds to torpedoes to keep the DD's from being the only ships that can cause real damage.

Did you read the part about RNBBs having Cruiser like agility and concealment.

In fact, the Concealment on the higher tier RNBB can even better than cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,616 posts
9,711 battles
3 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

That wouldn't explain why RNBB get a caliber/4 penetration on their HE shells.

I mean, it's as if they are encouraging you to use IFHE for lolcits with HE.

Of course they want lol HE cits.  Its a BB and BB players will cry if they cant one shot things. 

I was referring instead to their armor profile being that heavy to limit IFHE spam on them to avoid people crying over CLs ripping BBs apart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Beta Testers
4,950 posts
1,487 battles
6 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Quite a while back, WG tried out weaker plating armor to reduce BB camping in higher tiers, but this didn't work with the existing BBs, because none of them were particularly well suited for the task.

Enter RNBB, with a more cruiser like agility and stealth.
We all know most cruisers must use WASD, concealment and map knowledge to avoid taking damage, so why not RNBB?

RNBB will still have BB like belt armor, but I don't see why they need to feature BB levels of plating, when they already get cruiser levels of agility and stealth.

 

* "Plating armor" is the bow and stern section, as well as much of the deck and casemate sections.
If you don't know what I mean by "Plating armor", go look at the Armor viewer.

 

2 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Did you read the part about RNBBs having Cruiser like agility and concealment.

In fact, the Concealment on the higher tier RNBB can even better than cruisers.

 

Yes we did he rightfully ignored it because they don't have cruiser like agility. They don't have anything close to cruiser agility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
3,666 posts
7,161 battles
6 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Quite a while back, WG tried out weaker plating armor to reduce BB camping in higher tiers, but this didn't work with the existing BBs, because none of them were particularly well suited for the task.

Enter RNBB, with a more cruiser like agility and stealth.
We all know most cruisers must use WASD, concealment and map knowledge to avoid taking damage, so why not RNBB?

RNBB will still have BB like belt armor, but I don't see why they need to feature BB levels of plating, when they already get cruiser levels of agility and stealth.

 

* "Plating armor" is the bow and stern section, as well as much of the deck and casemate sections.
If you don't know what I mean by "Plating armor", go look at the Armor viewer.

 

6 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

And listen to the crapflinging howler monkeys spit and throw feces about their cage?

I think not.  Every BB line needs to have good cit protection because I need to play with my [edited] out, guns that shoot across the map because they need to scratch their [edited]on the border, AA levels to swat down any CV strike before it can drop, but still needs to be able to stop on a dime to avoid those pesky unavoidable homing torps which do way too much damage, and needs to be immune to fires, and HE spam in general.  We need to get a new ship every time we heal.  Need it.  Chicks dig clean paint jobs or something.  WG needs to get with the program.

Gotta live the one shot CA high life in my big sparkles boat.

*my apologies to crapflinging howler monkeys.  this post was written before my first cup of coffee.  you were just the first annoying little beast that popped into my head.

It wasn't just the winning that did it. When Wargaming tested it out on the public test they found that it had the opposite effect of what they intended so they didn't do it. I'm not denying that winners did have a large part in it but just wanted to point out that that was not the sole reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,927
[SYN]
Members
14,349 posts
10,218 battles
24 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

 

Yes we did he rightfully ignored it because they don't have cruiser like agility. They don't have anything close to cruiser agility.

Go look at the wiki then
Here are some turning circles with rudder speeds.
You wouldn't believe how bad some cruisers handle in T8+

  • 780m, 16.0s
  • 790m, 15.0s
  • 800m, 12.1s
  • 830m, 15.8s
  • 840m, 11.8s
  • 890m, 9.7s
  • 940m, 17.4s

Because here are what the T8+BBs of other nations look like

  • 870m, 17.3s
  • 890m, 19.7s
  • 900m, 22.1s
  • 920m, 19.5s
  • 940m, 17.5s
  • 950m, 22.2s
  • 1050m, 19.4s

And then tell me T8+ RNBB don't have cruiser-like agility again

Edited by MrDeaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Beta Testers
4,950 posts
1,487 battles
Quote

And then tell me T8+ RNBB don't have cruiser-like agility again

 

 

Yep i'm telling you that again. Tirpitz is only a couple of tens of meters wider than Lion in turning circle and it takes just voer 24 seconds to complete a 90 degree turn. NO does it in 16.3 and Atago is just a hair over 17 seconds. @LittleWhiteMouse may have data for the others, (mine is all with Rudder mod 2 btw).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23,480
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
9,024 posts
7,604 battles

I have lots of data.

And they did try weaker armour on the RNBBs.  Conqueror originally had worse armour than Moskva with the equivalent main battery accuracy that you're now seeing being tested on Giulio Cesare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,248 posts
737 battles
Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I have lots of data.

And they did try weaker armour on the RNBBs.  Conqueror originally had worse armour than Moskva with the equivalent main battery accuracy that you're now seeing being tested on Giulio Cesare.

With all the different possible configurations of Conqueror tested, I don't understand how they finally arrived at the current one and not see any problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
499 posts
7,162 battles

OP, I'll you need to experience what you're proposing is go play the Nelson, which needs a super heal to offset the damage received.

Removing bow taking isn't necessary bad, but it's a MASSIVE change, and would have many unintended knock ons.

 

 

Edited by Veasel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Beta Testers
4,950 posts
1,487 battles
7 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I have lots of data.

And they did try weaker armour on the RNBBs.  Conqueror originally had worse armour than Moskva with the equivalent main battery accuracy that you're now seeing being tested on Giulio Cesare.

 

Any chance i could bug you for the turn time data on the T8 CA/CL's? Writing a NO review and will need it when i eventually get to the handling. Was gonna wait on bugging you but since the matter has come up and i can't get anything but atago and NO myself:(.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,927
[SYN]
Members
14,349 posts
10,218 battles
9 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

 

Yep i'm telling you that again. Tirpitz is only a couple of tens of meters wider than Lion in turning circle and it takes just voer 24 seconds to complete a 90 degree turn. NO does it in 16.3 and Atago is just a hair over 17 seconds. @LittleWhiteMouse may have data for the others, (mine is all with Rudder mod 2 btw).

Try Roon and Hindenburger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[WOLFD]
[WOLFD]
Beta Testers
4,950 posts
1,487 battles

NO is my only cruiser above T7, i have the Balt unlocked but grinding credits atm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×