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CaptGodzillaPig

DD and Cruiser Folks, How would you have "your" BB play?

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For as long as I have been playing,  The different ship classes always seem to gripe that the other person isn't doing their "job".    As a guy that spends a bit of time in DD's I could almost say that they get the worst of the bashing from the team, and that may hold true in game chat, but the poor BB driver is really the guy that just can't do anything right.  I played cruisers for a bit back in the day and they used to be useful, but for the sake of conversation let's just agree that cruisers are good for nothing but damage farming and as a team mate just expect that they will knock some HP off your target, or maybe secure a kill, and that is all.  If you get a "bonus" CA driver that get's out from behind an island you found a unicorn.  No knock on Cruisers guys...  I know why you hide.  I am the one that deletes you when you show up.

Back to the point.

Since all of you DD and CA/L drivers like to complain about us golden child BB's so much, how would you have us play for you?  In other words, "What can we do for you....our little under gunned and under armored children." 

Players like me, who like to buck the trend of the "camping" BB that sits back,  The one that seems to get all the hate..  We try to run the vanguard to a cap and hold it down.  That said,  sometimes it works well and sometimes it ends in a fiery death.  very good players here, people I may but heads with, but still respect, have said that if you stick around you can influence the game later.  I have seen this personally and it works.  I have been that guy and trust me.  Rolling around the map in a GK when the other team is all beat up and limping and just pounding out kills left and right.  Well that is something to behold.  lol.  It's like being 20' tall and walking through a field of midgets.  But,  I tend to go the other way and run the front.

So just make up your mind you other classes.  What do you want us to do?  If we push, we are stupid.  If we sit and rack major damage we are butthats..  If you want to hate us fine, but just pick a reason to hate us so at least maybe some people can do something you will actually like.   A good BB driver can roll 200k plus in a game, rock 4 kills or more..  Take some caps..  Team loses.  Oh it is that damn BB's fault.   

Every game you lose, just look at who the top player is and think, "what could I have done to maybe help him out."  If you weren't in a spot to help think, :What could I have done to be like him."

 

Just send us BB guys a memo when you figure it out.    Run in.. Sit back.. You make up your minds.. 

 

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To their strengths I guess.

 

Some are better alongside the forward CAs (German BBs) whilst some are generally better standing back a little. Of course if the team has a plan, then hopefully all will follow it, but basically I'd hope all the team would support each other and play to their ships strengths.:Smile_honoring:

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It depends on the team.

I've had matches were I took my BB to the fight and put my self in harms way to tank damage to give my team better shots without return fire and a few teammates called me a noob for not hanging back and doing long range fire.

Same way I've camped and done long range fire and people people cried on how I was hanging back and letting them take the hits. 

You really can't make everyone like how you play your BB so play to the strength of your ship and always watch the minimap to see how both teams are deployed and august accordingly.

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For me as far as BB play I expect theme to be a BB not a island hold up guy not a hide behind the team kinda guy. When BBs push properly and effectively the team that has usually wins. The problem is that the Cruisers especially the American ones do not have the proper armor lay out and or length of Belt armor instead the company gives theme citadel armor that isn't belt armor as a means of ok deal with it but Russian ships at least have it right. Once they fix American Cruisers to actually have there Belt armor and stop using Citadel armor that is around the Engines and Ammo Lockers first this will allow the cruisers to go and support like they where meant to. Till this happens BBs wont stop supporting islands Cruisers wont be able to help theme in a escort role. This requires an understanding of armor layout on a ship where it is and what it does.

shot-17.08.31_02.13.21-0445.jpg

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20 minutes ago, Elegant_Winter said:

The grass is greener..

But you still have to mow it.

 

I just hope my BB friends don't suck and know how to play. Many have difficulty managing their rock armour while staying combat relevant.The team needs BB guns and alpha, leave the "hiding" for those pesky destroyers.

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1 minute ago, Canadatron said:

But you still have to mow it.

 

I just hope my BB friends don't suck and know how to play. Many have difficulty managing their rock armour while staying combat relevant.The team needs BB guns and alpha, leave the "hiding" for those pesky destroyers.

That is the problem the BBs wont do there job and part if the Cruisers cant support theme due lack luster made up armor values for anything other than Russian cruisers.

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2 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

To their strengths I guess.

 

Some are better alongside the forward CAs (German BBs) whilst some are generally better standing back a little. Of course if the team has a plan, then hopefully all will follow it, but basically I'd hope all the team would support each other and play to their ships strengths.:Smile_honoring:

Is there such a thing as a "forward cruiser"?!  They're usually even farther back than Te bbs.  Hell it's getting so that you often see dds behind the bbs.

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32 minutes ago, MikeDSp said:

That is the problem the BBs wont do there job and part if the Cruisers cant support theme due lack luster made up armor values for anything other than Russian cruisers.

People need to get over this idea that a bbs job is to tank.

 

To be a tank you need more than armor and health... you need a way of forcing the enemy to shoot you instead of the squishies.  (Anyone who used to play that other WoW game back in the day should remember how pallies had armor and hp, but made [edited] tanks because they couldn't hold aggro and force the big bads to ignore the squishy damage dealers... you can't be an effective tank, no matter how hard it is to kill you, if you can't force the enemy to waste his time trying to kill you instead of softer targets)

 

Until wg implements aggro and aggro control tools, there is no such thing as a tank in this game.  There are just damage dealing classes with different tools to help them deal damage.

 

Tldr it's not a bbs job to soak up damage for the team because bbs possess no ability to actually force the enemy to shoot at them.

Edited by Shadeylark
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I love playing fletcher,but it pains me when BBs ignor killing radar cruisers first.

to be honest,when I play Alabama,my priority is always radar cruisers,killing them first makes a DD job a lot easier.

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When i'm playing DD i'm expecting support from every ship in my team CA, DD BB CV everything i could have. I'm expecting BB to be at least 10 km behind me, that way he can easily shoot any target i spot and the BB would not be surprised by anything since i'm spotting for him.

 

When i'm playing CA i expect BB to shoot and take shells for me as i start fire . I expect them to shoot the designated target when i need (except if they have to protect their broadside or if a DD show up near him)

 

A BB can easily have 200k dmg+ kraken confederate ... however a BB that use cruiser and DD as meat shield while shooting other target is not a good player. So yeah blaming the GK that have 5 kill and over 200k damage is justified when you know the player has been camping far away and shooting AFK target . I would rather compliment a BB player that helped the team even if he's not the top on the team than complimenting the BB who used every single ship as shield meat, doing nothing but shooting low HP target, ignoring threat to other DD/CA  and finish 1st with a Kraken.

 

If you play a BB to stay like 17km away from your target, to me you're not a good BB player. You have armor, health and guns. YOU should be the one who take hits . That being said, sometime as a BB you need to fall back and repair, and i do understand. But at least stay in a position where you can be somehow efficient (no going for the edge of the map is not usefull)

Edited by AlcatrazNC
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I tend to play a mix of everything - i.e. I play DD's, CL's, BB's and even CV's sometimes - depending on my mood, karma (not WOWS karma) at that moment, and any campaign missions I'm working on.  When I do BB, how I play it depends on the map, where I spawn, and what the red team looks like.  At first I usually will not charge right into a cap, but will hand back a bit supporting whatever is trying to cap.  I try not to yolo or solo if at all possible!  In short, I try to play to the situation - sometimes it works out, sometimes not.  

Somewhat off topic - I think the only class that does not get the gripe comment are CL's - DD's get blamed for not capping, not smoking, going off yolo, not spotting; BB's get blamed, as you stated, for camping or for charging in; and CV's get blamed for everything!  Was working on one of the missions in my Lex the other day, and a DD asks in Chat "CV, can you give me some <blank> fighter cover!"  Feeling a bit salty as the Red CV just shot down all my fighters, I comment back "They're all <blank> rearming!".  The DD gets sunk early in the match and I get the Blanking useless comment for my efforts.

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43 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

Is there such a thing as a "forward cruiser"?!  They're usually even farther back than Te bbs.  Hell it's getting so that you often see dds behind the bbs.

In most of my matches the DDs operate 6- 12km, CAs 10- 15km (or a little further if Kutz style) and BBs 10 - 20km.

 

I could complain about some German BBs working within hugging range, or some BBs working from what could be considered the next match they are so far back.

However, these type players are the minority in the games I've had, so what's the point (although I find the hugging BBs worse due to them getting in the way of their teams attacks)?

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It would depend upon the BB line.  For example KM BBs are strong up close to mid range, so it would be nice if they pushed up with CAs where they could help support CAs and as an added benefit they would get to enjoy our AA protection and an additional layer of torp detection.   What isn't useful is a BB hugging the map boarders 10+ KMs away from their closest ally ship (further away from any cap point) trying to do their best "sniper" shooting. 

 

I seriously doubt anyone expects BBs to be up on the front lines with DDs but most BBs I see are barely even in the engagement zone.

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if destroyers didn't move around all invisible and dodge unrealistically and survive a full salvo and wreck you battleships would be more willing to move up.  OR if cruiser were able to more effectively hunt and eliminate them that would be a solution too.  maybe cruisers need more buffs against DDs.  

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Running DD: I need them close enough to threaten cruisers trying to just waltz into caps. I can knife fight or avoid the DDs just fine. I just need those damned Neptunes and Minotaurs dead or deterred.

 

Running CA: Anywhere close enough that I'm not always the prime target for enemy BBs. 

 

Running a BB myself: Close enough to provide appropriate fire support. 

 

The common theme? Closer to the action than many of them tend to be.

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Your answer is literally in the original post.  Don't sit back and snipe and don't full w yolo.  At the start and mid game, generally speaking, you should be in the middle of the two options.  Close enough to caps, close enough to protect your allies, yet have the awareness and positioning so that if you get focused you can disengage.

 

You should consistently be in the fight without dying, which means you take a central position when possible, that's how a battleship is played effectively. 

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4 hours ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

For as long as I have been playing,  The different ship classes always seem to gripe that the other person isn't doing their "job".    As a guy that spends a bit of time in DD's I could almost say that they get the worst of the bashing from the team, and that may hold true in game chat, but the poor BB driver is really the guy that just can't do anything right.  I played cruisers for a bit back in the day and they used to be useful, but for the sake of conversation let's just agree that cruisers are good for nothing but damage farming and as a team mate just expect that they will knock some HP off your target, or maybe secure a kill, and that is all.  If you get a "bonus" CA driver that get's out from behind an island you found a unicorn.  No knock on Cruisers guys...  I know why you hide.  I am the one that deletes you when you show up.

Back to the point.

Since all of you DD and CA/L drivers like to complain about us golden child BB's so much, how would you have us play for you?  In other words, "What can we do for you....our little under gunned and under armored children." 

Players like me, who like to buck the trend of the "camping" BB that sits back,  The one that seems to get all the hate..  We try to run the vanguard to a cap and hold it down.  That said,  sometimes it works well and sometimes it ends in a fiery death.  very good players here, people I may but heads with, but still respect, have said that if you stick around you can influence the game later.  I have seen this personally and it works.  I have been that guy and trust me.  Rolling around the map in a GK when the other team is all beat up and limping and just pounding out kills left and right.  Well that is something to behold.  lol.  It's like being 20' tall and walking through a field of midgets.  But,  I tend to go the other way and run the front.

So just make up your mind you other classes.  What do you want us to do?  If we push, we are stupid.  If we sit and rack major damage we are butthats..  If you want to hate us fine, but just pick a reason to hate us so at least maybe some people can do something you will actually like.   A good BB driver can roll 200k plus in a game, rock 4 kills or more..  Take some caps..  Team loses.  Oh it is that damn BB's fault.   

Every game you lose, just look at who the top player is and think, "what could I have done to maybe help him out."  If you weren't in a spot to help think, :What could I have done to be like him."

 

Just send us BB guys a memo when you figure it out.    Run in.. Sit back.. You make up your minds.. 

 

If you can sit back and punish cruisers/dd's that the dd spots so the DD can operate, that's one thing. 

 

Most BB's that sit in the back can't hit crap back there, and they don't target the threats to the dds in the early game.  If you can give me an EFFECTIVE 200k on targets actively contesting caps, great.  I don't care about kill count, that can be fudged with sniping.

 

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I want them to play like my div mates do in a BB.  Close enough to pressure objectives and for me to be able to easily smoke when things get hairy.  I regularly burn most of my smokes smoking my team.  Its pretty rare for me to use them to farm unless we need the kills. 

Its a two way street.  I cant sail 10km from the friendly side of a cap back and forth all game because thats where a BB wants to sit.  I'd never get anything done.  Want my smoke?  Push in closer and you will get it.  Not only that but I can spot DDs and torps and other threats to you.  It is in my interest to keep you alive.  I do prioritize my consumables.  If you are being ineffective my consumables goes to the guys that are putting in the work.

Most games I start out telling the team where I am laying a preplanned smoke that will get them into cover when my smoke wears off.  30-40 seconds after my smoke wears off my next smoke is ready for them to push up again.  Good smokes win games like few other things can.  Guys just need to pull their work in the team so I can do mine.

 

Its as simple as that.

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For me it depends on which BB line I am playing.  in the KM BBs I am looking for a push point so I move in closer to the cap to put my secondaries to work on a spotted DD to help push him out, and yes that means even getting into the cap if possible.  While I will shoot my main guns at him, I want to help our DD push him out.  USN (- Missouri) I want to sit in that say 13-15km range (not of the cap of the enemy the other side of the cap.  Mo is a different story, her I do want to somewhat push the cap too. I want put fear of radar on the opposing DD in the cap.  I will try depending the map to push up where I can to try and protect 1 side of the BB from taking it from another cap while up in close.  IJN line I am working seems to be more I want to sit back in that 16-18km range and focus on whatever I can to help.

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Why do people hate BB's at times ?

 

What people complain about.

1: When you see Battleship's ignore shooting at DD's.

2: When you see Battleships go off to the side flanking..    Going to the side cap.. then going even on past it... 

3: Battleships that set so far back they shoot from 15km+ The Entire game... Then 3/4 your team is dead.. and they are still in the far back with full HP.

 

 

What People want.

1: Shoot at Destroyers..  Shoot at them from 12-14km and closer... Your gun arcs are good enough to hit them well.   Even a 2k volley against a DD puts pressure on him to move back because... oh crap... people are gonna focus me... This gives your DD's a better chance to push up and cap.

2:  If there is A/B/C Cap.   Do not send your BB to the far right of C cap.. Try to stay between B/C  or in the middle range of C.   Going far to the side may help win the cap.. but after that.. you are out of position.. and your not supporting B.

3: Move up!.  No i am not saying charge in and die.   go for a mid range if you have full hp.. and your team is getting pounded.. move up and draw some fire. (not saying yolo.. Not saying put yourself in a position to get focused)

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2 hours ago, Shadeylark said:

People need to get over this idea that a bbs job is to tank.

 

To be a tank you need more than armor and health... you need a way of forcing the enemy to shoot you instead of the squishies.  (Anyone who used to play that other WoW game back in the day should remember how pallies had armor and hp, but made [edited] tanks because they couldn't hold aggro and force the big bads to ignore the squishy damage dealers... you can't be an effective tank, no matter how hard it is to kill you, if you can't force the enemy to waste his time trying to kill you instead of softer targets)

 

Until wg implements aggro and aggro control tools, there is no such thing as a tank in this game.  There are just damage dealing classes with different tools to help them deal damage.

 

Tldr it's not a bbs job to soak up damage for the team because bbs possess no ability to actually force the enemy to shoot at them.

I think you're getting caught up on the semantics of what it means to "tank".  It's not about agro management, it's about positioning.  A BB can't control if it gets shot at or not, but it can put itself in positions where it becomes a significantly greater threat to the enemy.    A BB 10km away from the enemy is going to be a bigger threat than a BB 20km away from the enemy.  This is what people mean by "tanking".

Even if the enemy decides to ignore the BB and focus down cruisers instead, at least this means the BBs will be able to capitalize to a greater extent.  A BB sitting on the back does neither of these things, he is less likely to draw fire from cruisers, and he is going to output less damage in turn.  

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