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CAPT_BAIUS

A discussion on the role of camping and how to eliminate it

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To Those That Despise Camping, 

 

Rather frequently someone makes a post about the pervasive nature of camping in World of Warships and how camping drains most of the fun out of gameplay, especially high-tier gameplay.  I don't claim to have an answer, but I wish some of us could come together here to discuss what aspect of the game mechanics make so many people turn to camping rather than playing caps and pushing forward with teammates.  Personally, I feel like camping is a bigger problem at the high-tiers due to two factors: the higher detection radii of the ships, and the longer gun ranges.  

 

Realistically, camping is a sound strategy - far from the enemy you can stay alive to rack up more xp points.  Yet ships are allowed to camp because they have the range to engage targets from the relative safety of range and because other unfortunate ships risk their hulls to spot targets for them.   I bolded the previous phrase because I believe shared line of sight (LOS) is the reason this first person shooter has such a camping problem.  If teams did not share LOS and had to spot their own targets no one could earn a living, let alone a pleasure, from camping,  

 

I recognize that even if LOS became independent for all players the high detectability radii of BBs would still allow them to snipe each other.  Regarding this fact I say, let them, they don't know enough about teamwork to be useful.  For CAs it's one less BB you'll have to worry about shooting at you. In fact, CAs would never have to worry about camping BB snipes anymore - BBs wouldn't be able to see them. Moreover, camping BBs would have a much harder time earning experience and moving into the higher tiers because they'd have such a hard time finding targets unless they changed their gameplay and actually moved closer points of interest like caps. Ultimately, independent LOS would place CAs and DDs in excellent positions to rule the higher tiers if camping battleships did not change their ways.  

 

Change would also come to communication, something that is non-existent and often rude at the higher tiers.  Independent LOS would promote teamwork as ships ahead would have to communicate with their team to warn of enemy targets.  Yet no one would be rewarded for the risks DDs take to earn this information if they don't move up with them to capitalize upon it.  Poorly communicating teams, or lone wolfs would be easily trapped and eliminated.  

 

Finally, BBs could still keep their blessed range and if they combined it with a spotting aircraft they could have a few minutes a round to open a strategic sniping window. For well skilled shots, this would be an opportunity to outshine the pack of mediocre campers because hitting citadels should be a reward for rolling the dice of BB RNG.  Please give me your honest thoughts.  I posted to start a friendly discussion in the hopes of making gameplay better for everyone.  

 

Thanks for Reading, 

A BB Driver Who Hates Campers 

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You should define what you see as "camping".  Not all people are likely to agree with your definition, or perhaps mine.  But it makes a good starting point.

 

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CVs are the best way to deal with campers.    A IJN DD is a good way also.   

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I would define camping as people clumping on the edges of the map or behind cover and not playing to capture the points.  It's downright frustrating to be trying to cap things alone in a battleship because your friendly cruisers don't want to leave the pack of battleships sitting in a corner and the friendly battleships won't move because they are afraid of destroyers and thus won't move without the cruisers moving first.  It's especially frustrating when the enemy has control of the points and your team cares more about staying alive to farm more xp than to try and risk their ships for a victory.  

 

Anyways, does anyone agree with my original post, or is the consensus that only I think the game mechanics need a readjustment.  

Edited by CAPT_BAIUS

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Is camping the problem or is it the map design? I don't think that camping is too bad in WoWs, it's partly because map designs (e.g. Okinawa, difficult to disengage in a BB).

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31 minutes ago, CAPT_BAIUS said:

I would define camping as people clumping on the edges of the map or behind cover and not playing to capture the points.  It's downright frustrating to be trying to cap things alone in a battleship because your friendly cruisers don't want to leave the pack of battleships sitting in a corner and the friendly battleships won't move because they are afraid of destroyers and thus won't move without the cruisers moving first.  It's especially frustrating when the enemy has control of the points and your team cares more about staying alive to farm more xp than to try and risk their ships for a victory.  

 

Anyways, does anyone agree with my original post, or is the consensus that only I think the game mechanics need a readjustment.  

I keep seeing people post about ships hiding in the map corners.  But I've never once seen this happen.  Oh, on very rare occasion, I've witnessed some noob sitting still in a BB near the max range of their guns, broadside to the enemy, sniping.  A couple of times those BB's have been hiding behind a low island as well, so they can't be seen.  But this is an extremely rare thing in my experience!!!

Now, are there people who won't aggressively push the way more aggressive players would like?  Sure.  Occasionally, you'll have a team that's got too many such players and not enough who will push into caps and it doesn't end well.  That's life in the big city.  Sometimes you'll get some noob who will think that it's the smart thing to do to be sitting out around 16-18km in a German BB like a Gneisenau sniping, rather than pushing in closer with their brawling BB when there's no good reason not to do so.  (No DDs around, etc.)  Some players just don't know how to play their ships.  On the flip side, there are also overly aggressive, but ignorant players who will rant at players for not being aggressive enough when those players happen to be in BBs that are not designed to be brawlers, but mid range snipers.

Regarding "staying alive to farm more xp than to try and risk their ships for a victory", this game is not just about winning (though winning does and should matter a lot).  It's also about the XP grind to the next ship, etc.  Furthermore, the best way to get better, have better stats, earn more XP and credits, and improve your win rate, is to stay alive as long as possible while contributing as much as possible.  Just charging into the fray tends to accomplish few of these things, if it's done blindly.  And I can tell you that I will rarely take one for the team, if doing so means that THEY get all the damage done, XP, and credits while I get jack for the win.  So, unless it's clan wars or some other team event where winning is the only thing that matters, if (in random battles) given a choice between an early death and a crapgame (poor XP and credits, etc.) for a win, or having a great game but losing, I'm strongly tempted to say that I'd rather lose, because winning isn't everything when you're trying to grind ships and credits and so on.  This is the reality in a game like this.  When you're grinding, a win means little to you if you have a poor game and get nothing for the waste of your time, whereas a great game in a loss can get you at least some reasonable earnings for your time.

 

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6 minutes ago, FayFay731 said:

Is camping the problem or is it the map design? I don't think that camping is too bad in WoWs, it's partly because map designs (e.g. Okinawa, difficult to disengage in a BB).

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of map design in WoWS, though I'm not sure that we'd agree on what makes a "good" map.  I think that there are far too many maps choked with far too many islands, particularly those really tall ones.  In some ways, I think that map design may be the worst aspect of WoWS.

 

 

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The only good maps are real ones, and the only one we have seen in the game so far is the Dunkirk map. Most players hate Ocean. I don't mind it even though I don't do all the well on it when I get it because when you do, individual skill and team play are the only criteria for succeeding on that map regardless of Tier or ship type. We will see more real maps in scenario play in the long run, if only because the history of naval combat in the game is what sells the game itself. I don't expect total realism in most games I play, especially this one, but at medium and close ranges, ship, gunnery and torpedo performance is not that far off reality.

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Good grief Charlie Brown...

1    Sometimes staying at a base is a good thing, cause without your base in some games you loose.

 

2   Sometimes some folks realize that a game does not have to be won in the first 5 minutes and team work is needed and when they see people running off to die, they stay back.

 

3   NO matter what you say in CHAT, you are not helping, because 9 times out of ten most complainers language is foul or aggressive.

 

4 IF you think DDS should always cap enjoy your below 50% win rate like me. because if a DD does not cap but hangs just outside and spots, the fleet arrives and the other DD goes down without losing yours.

 

5   Last and not least despite what people think, there is no such thing as camping or kill stealing...its callled POOR PLAY and if you yell about it in CHAT, you have failed the first test of leadership...TO Inspire.

 

Good Luck and Good Hunting

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I'm seeing that most people don't consider camping or playing for points rather than to win to be the problem that I think it is.  I will freely admit that looking at the number of battles you have all played I'm the rookie (725 battles) rather than the seasoned veteran.  Yet does anyone agree that gameplay moves in a faster more refreshing way at the low tiers?  

 

Perhaps this is due to map design.  I think certain maps due to island placement, or lack thereof, heavily bias the maps to make one class more relevant at the expense of another.  For example, anyone with torps rules estuary.  Maps with wide open spaces kill the ships that need to get close to play at their best ranges ie. german battleships (especially gneisenau), dds and cas. 


But I do disagree with staying alive to do more damage rather than play for the team.  I don't grind ships; I try to enjoy the unique aspects of every ship I play and change my playstyle to accommodate their differing characteristics (except for the NY I free xp'd through that one).  It really frustrates me that some people play this game more to grind ships than help their teams.  Also, it doesn't bother me to give my life away for a win because I have more ships in port.  If I need credits off I play lower tier bbs and dds.  

 

Some people seem to think that there is a right way and a wrong way to play ships.  Obviously blind agression will get you killed at the beginning.  Obviously sniping with German bbs is ineffective. For example, Gneisenau plays best inside 10-11 k.  People who play this ship at max range are idiots. When they play a ship like gneisenau at max range to stay out of harms way and attempt (likely unsuccessfully) to wrack up a big score they have "camped" in my mind.  This is probably my best attempt to define what I view as camping - people who sit at range, or behind cover or smoke, to maximize their own benefits rather than play the game as a team player.

 

 Moreover, for German bbs to be effective in higher tiers (Gneisenau is again a great example) It has to close.  When IJN and USN captains sit back and talk about how much damage they've wracked up in a match when the enemy has the cap points and a lead in points, I think they're playing wrong.  I see this a lot. I would define this as camping.   These captains should move up and support the german bb or any other ship that thrives on close quarters combat.  For these ships simply to draw fire in these situations is very helpful for the team.  It increases the chances of capping and winning even if this kind of support puts these battleships outside their ideal engagement ranges.  

 

But I think y'all are more right than me.  I think my criticism should rest more with independent minded players and a lack of teamwork than game mechanics.  I think this should change.  I started playing this game a few months ago because I think battleships are awesome and that teamwork could make this game a unique, though not super realistic naval warfare simulator.  But when people don't play to win, it's not as fun.  When people don't work as teams it's not as fun.  Maybe scoring needs to be changed so that people care more about winning than about personal damage? 

 

 

Edited by CAPT_BAIUS

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Cooper_Capt wrote, "CVs are the best way to deal with campers.    A IJN DD is a good way also."

Speaking as a player who spends most of his time in DDs, I love it when the other team camps, especially when I'm driving ships with range 10k+ torpedoes and low detection ranges.  I can spot for my own team's BBs and CAs from just outside detection range and spam torpedoes into their cluster camping formation.

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