Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Sinton

Maual Control for Secondary Armament

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

Hi All,

Is there anyone out there using this 4th level Cpt. skill.  I've noticed that some of my ships' secondary firepower is quite hefty.  At the end of a battle I sometimes find myself pretty banged up, at close quarters and waiting for Main Guns to come off cool down.  Having 6- 10 guns w/ 1200 or so dpm, 4-6 km range and 4-7 sec reload/ improved dispersion (-60% at t7>)  sounds not so awful compared to sitting and praying that my Main Rifles are up before my opponents are.  I'm a brawler and I find myself pretty much a face hugger even though at the battles outset, I swear restraint!

I'm interested in all opinions.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
417 posts
12,490 battles

I use it on my Bismarck, G. K., and Izumo. It's not really worth it below tier VII and even then, only on BBs with a good secondary armament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
387
[POP]
Members
1,224 posts
8,030 battles

What Junkie said... On my German ships it's absolutely brutal. I've played games in the Bismark with over 350 secondary battery hits, multiple kills, etc. 
But, there's big difference in the skill between tier 6 and tier 7. It's a decent skill to have on the Scharnhorst, but you need to have other skills to boost up your secondary range. You should also make sure you have the secondary and firestarting flags on your BB... it helps. 

The final point, is that it doesn't make battleships able to just wade into 4 enemy ships and win. In general, I stay back in the first half of the match, just like normal... then, if I see an opening, see a lone enemy, see a relatively undefended cap... then I'll charge. 

Manual secondaries let's you do two things (but only one at a time). 
A) Help take down a ship that you are also killing with main batteries
B) Work on a second ship (usually a DD or wounded cruiser) while you attack a different ship with main batteries. 

And, you have to be aware of your environment... manual secondaries means just that. You have to select a target and they will shoot only at that target. Don't get surrounded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

Is there any way to find out the dispersion of Secondary armament?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
585
[ARRGG]
Members
4,674 posts
7,503 battles

I use manual secondaries on my Tirpitz it is set up for secondaries and its great, I just manually target a ship and at about 11 k if visable they just start auto fireing, once set they constantly track the ship at any range if visable and will do so the whole game, many times the sneaky DD I set at the beginning of game will pop up within secondariy range that I did not see tilll the secondaries fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
116
[--V--]
Members
482 posts
10,633 battles

I use on German BBs T7 and up, including Scharnhorst.  Its a must have for those ships.  Makes them like real BBs.

I also have a Yamato and Montana captain with the secondary build as well.  Their range and ROF isn't as good, but can REALLY help sometimes when DDs and German BBs get close.  A lot of times the German BB drivers are surprised when I start hammering them with secondaries at 9km+.  They sometimes turn away because they don't like the same treatment.  Especially with Yamato.

I've tried it on a couple of cruisers just for kicks, but the range just isn't good enough for it to be effective.  So the captains points are best used elsewhere.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,036
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
15,160 posts
8,772 battles
1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

What Junkie said... On my German ships it's absolutely brutal. I've played games in the Bismark with over 350 secondary battery hits, multiple kills, etc. 
But, there's big difference in the skill between tier 6 and tier 7. It's a decent skill to have on the Scharnhorst, but you need to have other skills to boost up your secondary range. You should also make sure you have the secondary and firestarting flags on your BB... it helps. 

The final point, is that it doesn't make battleships able to just wade into 4 enemy ships and win. In general, I stay back in the first half of the match, just like normal... then, if I see an opening, see a lone enemy, see a relatively undefended cap... then I'll charge. 

Manual secondaries let's you do two things (but only one at a time). 
A) Help take down a ship that you are also killing with main batteries
B) Work on a second ship (usually a DD or wounded cruiser) while you attack a different ship with main batteries. 

And, you have to be aware of your environment... manual secondaries means just that. You have to select a target and they will shoot only at that target. Don't get surrounded. 

 

I all comes down to how much micromanaging you are willing to accept for the extra effectiveness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[TF16]
Members
825 posts
4,768 battles

The Warspite, when outfitted for secondaries, can put up an impressive amount of secondary fire.  Manual Control would help that out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
387
[POP]
Members
1,224 posts
8,030 battles
1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

 

I all comes down to how much micromanaging you are willing to accept for the extra effectiveness.

That's the nice thing about BBs, you have a lot more time to do things like set up secondary targets. 

In DDs and some cruisers, you're constantly engaged with driving and shooting. In BBs, you fire, then you have 20-30 seconds of downtime. Maneuvering takes a while too, so you can study the map and intelligence, etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

Doing totally theoretical math on my Alabama w/ Cpt. skills of BFT, AFT and MC of SA, I'm putting out potentially 18,000 dpm/ 4.8 sec to an improved 6 km w/ -60% improved dispersion....90, 000 dpm between rifle reloads...it is beginning to dawn on this noob the additive benefits of combined skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
387
[POP]
Members
1,224 posts
8,030 battles
Just now, Sinton said:

Doing totally theoretical math on my Alabama w/ Cpt. skills of BFT, AFT and MC of SA, I'm putting out potentially 18,000 dpm/ 4.8 sec to an improved 6 km w/ -60% improved dispersion....90, 000 dpm between rifle reloads...it is beginning to dawn on this noob the additive benefits of combined skills.

 

I dunno, 6km isn't much. If you're that close, you better be prepared for a broadside full of torps. 

That's why I like Bismark, with all the skills, he shoots at 11.3 kilometers. Well out of torp range of even tier 9 IJN torpedo destroyers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

True enough Ogre, I was saying earlier, though, that if I survive to the end of a battle I'm either trying to catch up to the fighting or pit-bulling someone's face having a gunfight in a phone booth... that's always been my style.

Ergo, the CQB advantage of MC of SA w/ B/AFT really speaks to this old Rifleman.

Never said I had style and never said I was good... I just like to fight. It helps your guys' win rate! :Smile_izmena:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,465 posts
8,739 battles

Just keep in mind the downside of the skill.  Without the skill, your secondary gunners will independently target any ship within range.  When more than one ship is in range, their targeting algorithms decide which to shoot at.  When you select a specific target, they will try to prioritize that target, but all guns will continue to target ships if they cannot target your selection.  Of course, they still fire like they are still hung over from the previous night's liberty, but they all will fire at anything that is in range and within their firing arc.

When you choose the manual control skill, that changes.  You do gain considerable accuracy, but there is a cost.  With this skill, your secondaries will only fire at targets you select.  That means that, if you do not select a target, they will not shoot.  That also means that, if you do select a target, and it is on the other side of the ship or, otherwise, outside their firing arc, they will not shoot.  In both cases, the entire enemy fleet could be coming in on you, and they would continue with their poker game until you selected a target or until the target you do select comes within their firing arc.

The upside to the skill is that it means that all guns that can shoot at your selected target will shoot at it, and they will do so with highly increased accuracy.  I think most people believe that this is worth the cost on ships like the Bismarck or other ships with effective secondary builds.  Just bear in mind that, when you choose it, you have to select a target to get anything out of your secondary gunners.  As someone else mentioned, this is not a big problem for a BB since BBs have a long reload time, giving you extra time to micromanage your secondaries, but it is something to keep in mind.

In summary:

Without the skill:  Secondary gunners will each independently target any ship in range and within their firing arc and automatically shoot at it, keeping all your secondaries that can target something in play at all times.  If you select a target, the gunners that can shoot at it will prioritize that target, but all gunners will continue to engage targets they can shoot at if they cannot target your selection.  Of course, all your gunners shoot like they are Stevie Wonder after a night of heavy drinking.

With the skill: Secondary gunners will only shoot at your designated target.  All guns that can hit the target will engage that target with increased accuracy.  Gunners that cannot target the selected target will continue to sleep off the previous nights debauchery so that, when the target does come within their range and firing arc, they can shoot better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

TY Sotaudi.  Excellent points. 

    I was considering this for my Alabama Cpt. as a test.  As a practice for this I have been actively and constantly been manually targeting aircraft during gameplay just to see what the increase (some, but not much) is in planes shot down when using my cruisers.  Since then I believe my situational awareness is a bit improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,465 posts
8,739 battles
1 hour ago, Sinton said:

True enough Ogre, I was saying earlier, though, that if I survive to the end of a battle I'm either trying to catch up to the fighting or pit-bulling someone's face having a gunfight in a phone booth... that's always been my style.

Ergo, the CQB advantage of MC of SA w/ B/AFT really speaks to this old Rifleman.

Never said I had style and never said I was good... I just like to fight. It helps your guys' win rate! :Smile_izmena:

That statement reminds me of a line from the sit-com, "My Two Dads."  If anyone is not familiar with it, it was a series about a teenage girl who lost her mother and was being raised by two bachelors.  At any rate, one episode featured the girl dating a much older teenage boy against her "fathers'" wishes.  They came back to the family's apartment, which appeared to be empty, and the boy started forcing his "affections" on the girl, not taking no for an answer.  It was then that Greg Evigan, one of the dads, popped up from somewhere behind the couch, causing the boy to back off.  He explained to the boy, basically, that it would be better for his health if he left immediately, and the boy something like, "What?  You know karate or something," and Greg Evigan, said, "Oh, I got no technique.  I just go psycho."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,465 posts
8,739 battles
4 minutes ago, Sinton said:

TY Sotaudi.  Excellent points. 

    I was considering this for my Alabama Cpt. as a test.  As a practice for this I have been actively and constantly been manually targeting aircraft during gameplay just to see what the increase (some, but not much) is in planes shot down when using my cruisers.  Since then I believe my situational awareness is a bit improved.

Kudos to you for doing so.

As a side note, it was not part of the discussion, but the equivalent AA manual skill is a bit different.  It increases the accuracy, but it does not cause all gunners to only target the selected target or only fire when a target is selected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,465 posts
8,739 battles
2 hours ago, Sinton said:

Doing totally theoretical math on my Alabama w/ Cpt. skills of BFT, AFT and MC of SA, I'm putting out potentially 18,000 dpm/ 4.8 sec to an improved 6 km w/ -60% improved dispersion....90, 000 dpm between rifle reloads...it is beginning to dawn on this noob the additive benefits of combined skills.

I assume those numbers are averaging all guns firing at the same time.  When making this calculation, remember to take into account what we were discussing, that, with this skill, only the guns that can fire at the selected target will bother firing at all.  Thus (assuming there were enough targets in range so that all guns could aim at something), you could either calculate the DPM of all guns firing with the normal (read, bad) accuracy (i.e., without the skill), or you could calculate the DPM for a subset of your guns which are able to fire at a target at a given angle with the increased accuracy (i.e., with the skill).  However,  there would never be a time where all guns could be firing at the same time with the increased accuracy.  Thus, in either case, the potential DPM would probably be lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[LOS]
Members
556 posts
7,576 battles

My calculations only included secondary armament on port or starboard( usually 1/2 of listed guns a caliber)...unless a mount was amidships and therefore able to swing to either side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
4 posts
1,679 battles

I've started taking this instead of AFT on my German BBs and Yamato and I'm liking it better so far. The added range from AFT I find rarely results in many extra hits because even with both AFT and manual secondaries once shots are going out at over 10km they're just not hitting anything other than another BB or sideways cruiser, and that's not what I want secondaries for in the first place.

If you only take manual secondaries and not AFT you still get a range of 9.2 on Bismark/Tirpitz and 8.8 on Yamato with flags, but you keep the 60% dispersion. This basically means you can still buzz saw destroyers that try to rush you and put substantial damage into cruisers between your reloads, as well as setting fires. The major downside, as mentioned, is you can only attack 1 thing at a time so one half of your ship will always be doing nothing even if you're surrounded. Since I rarely seek to intentionally get myself surrounded though it's not much of a trade off in my opinion.

Putting the points you save from not taking AFT into fire prevention or concealment expert opens up some interesting options to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
363
[PVE]
[PVE]
Beta Testers
1,559 posts
3,734 battles

Using manual on the Yamato is quite interesting because if those 155mm ap rounds. You can get some nasty surprise on the damage those things can do on cruisers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
878 posts
8,950 battles

I don't go full 2nds spec over T8, my Bizmarck & FDG both have manual 2nds and AFT (both roll into Tirp/Sharn well), but the range mod only on T8 & below.  GK just gets AFT. 

 

I have thought about it with Montana and Iowa, but they would really need the range mod - not willing to sacrifice aim. 

 

No way on my Yamato, she is not a brawler.  Maybe if I ever buy Izumo again, but then you suffer an unholy spotting range. 

 

No opinion on RN, not grinding a 4th BB line. 

Edited by WhiteRecon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×