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AhosChaos

IJN Rockets

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So I never realized that some of the IJN CV's have rockets, or at least in real life they did.  The Shinano is the most notable one with the most rockets, but they were also mounted on the Unryu and Ikoma class CV's as well.  I have also seen them on some diagrams of the Zuikaku.  Are they good, not really, they had a fuse set to roughly 1-1.5km but could technically reach out to almost 5.  Like the British rockets, they will probably be pretty bad, but they would look cool on the CV while still being bad.

 

I think in game, they are replaced by single mounts which provide more DPS and range than the rockets would, but if they ever do make an Unryu or Shinano premium, I hope to see these on there.  (Although with the Kaga already in at tier 7, the Unryu is unlikely as it would also be a somewhat rough fit at tier 8).

Spoiler

 

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As with most first-gen technologies, they weren't the most reliable. Is there anything you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?
 

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1 hour ago, Chobittsu said:

Is there anything you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?

 

The shovel.

Edited by HowitzerBlitzer
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3 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

Is there anything you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?
 

 

The F6F Hellcat came pretty close. 

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4 hours ago, AhosChaos said:

So I never realized that some of the IJN CV's have rockets, or at least in real life they did.  The Shinano is the most notable one with the most rockets, but they were also mounted on the Unryu and Ikoma class CV's as well.  I have also seen them on some diagrams of the Zuikaku.  Are they good, not really, they had a fuse set to roughly 1-1.5km but could technically reach out to almost 5.  Like the British rockets, they will probably be pretty bad, but they would look cool on the CV while still being bad.

 

I think in game, they are replaced by single mounts which provide more DPS and range than the rockets would, but if they ever do make an Unryu or Shinano premium, I hope to see these on there.  (Although with the Kaga already in at tier 7, the Unryu is unlikely as it would also be a somewhat rough fit at tier 8).

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

1. After what they did with Hood that it hits defensive fire, something all Tier 8+ CV's get and lower tiers may still need, it can auto delete DB's 2 tiers higher - just no, keep them out of game.

 

2. Kaga at 7 means nothing. They can have multiple premiums of a type at a tier (Atlanta and Indi, the Kaze clones), not to mention last check IJN still has materials like USN to potentially have a line split at tier 7-10, or a full split after tier 4.

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17 minutes ago, Captain_Dorja said:

Is there anything you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?

 

Two atomic bombs that we know of... 

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Two atomic bombs that we know of... 

3

Los Alamos

Hiroshima

Nagasaki

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1 hour ago, WanderingGhost said:

2. Kaga at 7 means nothing. They can have multiple premiums of a type at a tier (Atlanta and Indi, the Kaze clones), not to mention last check IJN still has materials like USN to potentially have a line split at tier 7-10, or a full split after tier 4.

Honestly adding more carriers into the tech tree with different load aircraft and squadron layout options could be interesting. 

Also seeing that Kaga is getting put into the tech tree, I feel it is time to dust off my AS Saipan.

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2 minutes ago, Grathew said:

Honestly adding more carriers into the tech tree with different load aircraft and squadron layout options could be interesting. 

Also seeing that Kaga is getting put into the tech tree, I feel it is time to dust off my AS Saipan.

 

Their finally adding it to buy that way? good.

 

And yeah, in theory USN has at least a branch with other CVE/L, Wasp, Yorktown, couple other projects/tweaks/variants including Iowa class conversion which could be balanced as the "Strike" line, a bit more geared at offense than defense, though we still need to balance out the existing line so it's not a default to that line, and an IJN line that could maybe shift more toward air control/DD hunter. Or essentially, in a game where they actually balance things the "Yorktown line" basically balances more like current IJN where it is better at taking out a capital ship, but not quite as good as the Lex line at hunting DD's, and the second IJN line maybe dialing back the TB's and all for fighters and more accurate DB's via more plane per group. Unless you add army planes or the like, you can only get so much variance in aircraft, USN, least once you get to the Hellcat, have alternative armaments (Hellcat wth 2x 20 mm replacing 2 .50's, 6 mg corsair vs 4 cannon, I believe the F8F started out 6-8 MG but still feel it should be replaced for an aircraft not designed to operate from CVE/L). And to my knowledge only the US tried that (USS Shangri-La, Essex class they tested launch AND recovery of Navy variant B-25H and P-51D). Which, aside from balancing more like the opposing country/a opposing country (UK may also have enough for a second line or a sub branch, depending on point of view), the only other difference that would be a plane difference is that one line at tier x ends in jets as fighters, and only fighters. And that while they have speed, they have lower hit points and DPS (matching the sensitivity particularly of early jet engines and less agility in a dog vs prop planes as well as less time on target against a slower target) with ammo still dependent on armament and all. Makes them great as interceptors but not as dogfighters, though hopefully low damage will prevent issues with strafe if that's still a thing (it seriously needs a rework). That or maybe any of the X-planes we can find, like the "flying flap jack", just a quick search, aside from Shangri-La test as a set up (something I've proposed as a stock hull Essex tier 8 premium), for at least different fighters (one can fill all roles) Boeing XF8B, Curtiss XF14C, P-38 (Lockheed wanted to navalize it, Navy turned it down at the time feeling it too big for CV service and bias against liquid cooled engines, understandably) and of course, Vought XF5U.

 

They can make differences in lines/branches, just depends what way they want to go, and how accepting the community would be if it was say just a line that behaved more like the opposing countries line just a new flag and other small differences.

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3 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

Their finally adding it to buy that way? good.

 

And yeah, in theory USN has at least a branch with other CVE/L, Wasp, Yorktown, couple other projects/tweaks/variants including Iowa class conversion which could be balanced as the "Strike" line, a bit more geared at offense than defense, though we still need to balance out the existing line so it's not a default to that line, and an IJN line that could maybe shift more toward air control/DD hunter. Or essentially, in a game where they actually balance things the "Yorktown line" basically balances more like current IJN where it is better at taking out a capital ship, but not quite as good as the Lex line at hunting DD's, and the second IJN line maybe dialing back the TB's and all for fighters and more accurate DB's via more plane per group. Unless you add army planes or the like, you can only get so much variance in aircraft, USN, least once you get to the Hellcat, have alternative armaments (Hellcat wth 2x 20 mm replacing 2 .50's, 6 mg corsair vs 4 cannon, I believe the F8F started out 6-8 MG but still feel it should be replaced for an aircraft not designed to operate from CVE/L). And to my knowledge only the US tried that (USS Shangri-La, Essex class they tested launch AND recovery of Navy variant B-25H and P-51D). Which, aside from balancing more like the opposing country/a opposing country (UK may also have enough for a second line or a sub branch, depending on point of view), the only other difference that would be a plane difference is that one line at tier x ends in jets as fighters, and only fighters. And that while they have speed, they have lower hit points and DPS (matching the sensitivity particularly of early jet engines and less agility in a dog vs prop planes as well as less time on target against a slower target) with ammo still dependent on armament and all. Makes them great as interceptors but not as dogfighters, though hopefully low damage will prevent issues with strafe if that's still a thing (it seriously needs a rework). That or maybe any of the X-planes we can find, like the "flying flap jack", just a quick search, aside from Shangri-La test as a set up (something I've proposed as a stock hull Essex tier 8 premium), for at least different fighters (one can fill all roles) Boeing XF8B, Curtiss XF14C, P-38 (Lockheed wanted to navalize it, Navy turned it down at the time feeling it too big for CV service and bias against liquid cooled engines, understandably) and of course, Vought XF5U.

 

They can make differences in lines/branches, just depends what way they want to go, and how accepting the community would be if it was say just a line that behaved more like the opposing countries line just a new flag and other small differences.

 

Kaga is coming in 6.10 according to the patch notes. 

 

Also that seems like a good idea for another thread. While I don't have the knowledge to fill out a full or half line for either the USN or IJN with either light/escort or simply different carriers. It would be interesting to see a offensive biased branch and a defensive biased branch. So IJN losing a fighter but picking up a dive bomber on one branch, and the USN getting either an extra dive or torpedo bomber based on tier and ship in question.  While the other branch would lose out on some punch for extra fighters.

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7 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Two atomic bombs that we know of... 

 

You assume that they just slapped those together overnight, you should look into their development history, pretty fascinating read

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2 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

You assume that they just slapped those together overnight, you should look into their development history, pretty fascinating read

Oh, no assumption or presumption on my part. The response was for the quote "worked right the first time". Both bomb dropped from aircraft worked right the first time. I know that but not so sure the first test went off right the first time. 

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4 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Oh, no assumption or presumption on my part. The response was for the quote "worked right the first time". Both bomb dropped from aircraft worked right the first time. I know that but not so sure the first test went off right the first time. 

And that's my point, there were tests done beforehand. They didn't just slap some explosives around a Uranium core and pitch it out of the plane, there was years of study and development, and even then it wasn't a perfect device.
Someone else mentioned the F4F or F6F above, but that wasn't a first-gen tech, the aeroplane had been around for decades before the F4F was built. It's like saying "I'm going to invent the iPhone today" and you're met with a perfectly working iPhone 6 as your prototype, skipping the stages of development and trial-and-error that would precede the 6th version of the product.
We didn't go straight from Mark IV Tank to the Leopard 2, there were other tanks in the middle, the Mark IV was clearly not perfect, otherwise it would still be in use today (ISIL not included, I hear they have working Panzers and Stugs   xD)

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The IJN AA Rockets would just be the tier 8+ AA consumable with some cool special effects, which would be a neat retrofit to the tier 8+ CV's.

 

They were launched in volleys, flew up and went boom at a predetermined time of flight, not really a first generation weapon, more like bolting together parts of 3 different weapons to make a new one (Rockets, Time Delay Fuses and explosives were all well proven)  At least they weren't a completely flawed concept like the RN's UPAA Lanchers, which put an airborne minefield in front of the attacking aircraft, hopefully the enemy snagged a few and hopefully they didn't drift back on top of the launching ship. Lots of hopefuls there, not a good thing for a weapons system.

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12 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

1. After what they did with Hood that it hits defensive fire, something all Tier 8+ CV's get and lower tiers may still need, it can auto delete DB's 2 tiers higher - just no, keep them out of game.

 

2. Kaga at 7 means nothing. They can have multiple premiums of a type at a tier (Atlanta and Indi, the Kaze clones), not to mention last check IJN still has materials like USN to potentially have a line split at tier 7-10, or a full split after tier 4.

I mean i wasn't saying change DF into buff the DPS of the short range AA like the Hood, but rather them be more of a cosmetic feature.

 

The Atlanta and Indy are the only example of a nation having two of the same type of ship in the same tier.  The tier 5 Kaze's are clones and most were given away for free, so it's a little different than introducing two or three unique premiums into the mix.  The main reason why the Kaga means something at tier 7 to me is that it would introduce a fifth CV and a third IJN one at tier 7.  It seems like it would be poor marketing to split customers between two tier 7 CV's.  AFAIK, the CV purchases are not that high especially compared to premium BB's or CA's.  

 

Splitting the line at tier 7 does present an interesting idea though.  The Unryu class is basically like HIryu with a little more modern technology AFAIK, then at tier 8 you don't have really anything unless you drop the Akagi into tier 8.  Then at tier 9 and 10 there is a gap, one of the slots could probably be filled with the Shinano.  Looking at what CV's are left, these all of relatively small plane capacities.  The Akagi had the largest capacity of these three and then you have the awkward time jump again.  You go from more modern CV in the Unryu to old CV in the Akagi and then back to the Shinano, or whatever would be placed into tier 9 and 10 which are presumably more modern.  

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2 hours ago, Chobittsu said:

And that's my point, there were tests done beforehand. They didn't just slap some explosives around a Uranium core and pitch it out of the plane, there was years of study and development, and even then it wasn't a perfect device.
Someone else mentioned the F4F or F6F above, but that wasn't a first-gen tech, the aeroplane had been around for decades before the F4F was built. It's like saying "I'm going to invent the iPhone today" and you're met with a perfectly working iPhone 6 as your prototype, skipping the stages of development and trial-and-error that would precede the 6th version of the product.
We didn't go straight from Mark IV Tank to the Leopard 2, there were other tanks in the middle, the Mark IV was clearly not perfect, otherwise it would still be in use today (ISIL not included, I hear they have working Panzers and Stugs   xD)

 

Ah... but their was no requirement for it to be the original invention, was there? 

As I read your statement, 

Quote

As with most first-gen technologies, they weren't the most reliable. Is there anything you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?

 

It did not specify this: "Is there any first-gen technology you can point to that worked flawlessly the first time?" 

If that was your intention then of course there is likely nothing created by man that worked flawlessly the first time in the first generation of the invention. 

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:43 PM, Grathew said:

 

Kaga is coming in 6.10 according to the patch notes. 

 

Also that seems like a good idea for another thread. While I don't have the knowledge to fill out a full or half line for either the USN or IJN with either light/escort or simply different carriers. It would be interesting to see a offensive biased branch and a defensive biased branch. So IJN losing a fighter but picking up a dive bomber on one branch, and the USN getting either an extra dive or torpedo bomber based on tier and ship in question.  While the other branch would lose out on some punch for extra fighters.

 

Might be something I toy with later, Can't take full credit on USN another player has a thread on possible tech tree's that pointed me to ships like the Iowa conversion. And the fact the tech tree is where ships can have liberties taken makes it easier to manipulate if you need to say add a few planes or change AA. Now that I've seen Kaga's loadout, a second IJN might behave kinda like that with it's DB based set up, though it'd be a 4 plane TB group if it was even there. Though, that kind of improved drop circle is what I've been saying USN should have in it's tech tree line to actually better differentiate it's DB's from the IJN line and make them more useful and give them a more defined role.

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