Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
GreyFox78659

The why of Graf Zeppelin

10 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

315
[GRFOX]
Members
2,180 posts
4,521 battles

The more I play with GZ and the more I read her critics the clearer the picture is coming as to why this launch was such a rushed nightmare.

 

1: GZ was never a fleet carrier in real life. The Germans believed Carriers to be a support ship much like a cruiser or destroyer. Most other navies started this way but quickly made Carriers 100% dedicated to plane handling and the center of a formation versus a support vessel  with other functions in a formation. The German never got the chance to make this discovery. That leads to a problem as no other carrier is like her as they all quickly became single purpose ships with no armor relying on escort. GZ didn't she was still a cruiser with a flight deck expected to escort not be escorted. Hence she got good secondary weapons and some armor her planes were supposed to be shorter ranged divebombers and her fighters short range interceptors and not fly across the map like others.

 

2 Being so diffrent in excuction lead to a problem most players have never played with a carrier that is supposed to be escorting a battleship in fact quite the opposite is normally done. This lead to conflict in her development as testers balking at having to change styles so much and wanted GZ to be like other carriers. This lead to power creep because well she has good armor and secondaries and now better TBs instead of DBs

 

3 The power creep eventually got out of hand BB players complained so they neutered her secondaries and lowered her armor but her TBs were to OP for the BB players. The deadline was nearing so WG basically decided to go back to the original concept giving her back her DBs only they left her secondaries neutered and her armor lacking. 

 

So basically before we can fix GZ we as a community need to decide do we want a normal carrier with standard no armor long range play or the original concept close in armored support/escort carrier with good secondaries but her planes must be kept close by to be effective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[GRFOX]
Members
2,180 posts
4,521 battles

Can't have both we must pick one or she will be to OP.

Edited by GreyFox78659

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
87
[M_L]
[M_L]
Beta Testers
321 posts
8,831 battles

I don't see why getting a solid air group and good secondaries must me mutually exclusive. If Graf Zeppelin had battleship armor and a flight deck instead of main battery guns I would understand. But as is when engaging from the surface Graf Zeppelin is basically a combination of a stock German DD fire control leading tier 6 cruiser guns whilst being armored like a tier 8 cruiser with the hit points of a normal carrier. Even with upgraded the fire control to get out to 10 km range on the guns Graf would still struggle in anything out side of a one on one. Thus asking for both a competent air group and the ability to stand on your own in a 1 on 1 and support your team with secondaries isn't that big of an ask in my opinion. As lets face it no well captained cruiser, destroyer or battleship would loose to a Graf Zeppelin in a close range fight.

The only way that having both could unbalance Graf Zeppelin would be to give the ship torpedoes instead of both AP and HE bombs. Cause the torpedo bomber is the most broken weapon in the game, and literally is the root of all carrier balance problems 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,303
[TF16B]
Members
8,023 posts
16,964 battles

Maybe also give her a charge limited but fast recycling damage control? If Graf is going to be a close fighter/'escort' carrier, then she needs to be able to put out fires fast. 'Emergency Takeoff' just isn't going to cut it, as far as I'm concerned, because Carriers are pretty much the only things that makes other players scream 'KILL IT!!!' and start ignoring everything else in order to shoot at it besides a Des Moines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,014
[5D7]
Alpha Tester
2,716 posts
4,076 battles

It should have its armor, its secondaries and at least 1 TB squadron to make her worth something. I am not for all the silly things WG is doing to premiums now, but the fact that it really was and is supposed to be a vessel that sails with the fleet, she should be set up as such. You forget it was BB's who have had everything nerfed into the ground. DD's, Torpedoes, CV's, Fires, Stealth Fire.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4
[KGB]
Members
31 posts
1,650 battles

Agreed the incessant kvetching of potato BB players forcing every other class to be nerfed because they suck is starting to get annoying. WG keeps capitulating to the worst players in the  game and the results are starting to show. My beloved DDs are being ruined to cater to the lowest common denominator this must not continue. Now that we can take advantage of this crisis maybe we should let WG know to stop listening to people who only play BBs because they suck and can't use other classes. If you can't use other classes you are literally the last person on earth the developers should be taking advice from. The Graf is such a joke it's not even funny aside from the one clown posting a 1/100 game on every thread to brag making claims it is still OP while average damage output per game is about half of its counterparts even the Enterprises with down tiered aircraft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[GRFOX]
Members
2,180 posts
4,521 battles

Oh I know about BB players and the nerfing campaign in fact I refer to them as the BB mafia. There is also Shokaku cult as well which wants all carriers to be clones of Shokaku.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4
[KGB]
Members
31 posts
1,650 battles

I've only been playing around 6 months and I love the game but have been noticing most of the new changes to ships are meant to help extremely low skilled BB players who drag everyone else's game down with them. Sure is playing CAs and DDs harder than a BB or CV yes but constantly nerfing BBs is why the matches become unbalanced today unless some event in going on encouraging other ship use. They have to understand the BB players that suck don't spend as much money as every other player looking for an enjoying engaging fight with multiple facets and tactics instead of just making BBs the only OP class to an already OP class. Maybe nerf the reload times for BBs give them more speed and faster rudder and return DDs and CAs to normal like before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,305
[-Y-]
Alpha Tester
4,438 posts
6,631 battles
6 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Oh I know about BB players and the nerfing campaign in fact I refer to them as the BB mafia. There is also Shokaku cult as well which wants all carriers to be clones of Shokaku.

The Shokaku Secret Society, arghhhhh! The BB Brigade are no way near as bad as the SSS. Whenever I see a recommendation for a 2.3.4.5.1................ plane loadout I tremble  Can you imagine what they'd do to dear Saipan if they were listened too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[GRFOX]
Members
2,180 posts
4,521 battles

I hear you I don't want a shokaku I want a ship that uses her secondary guns to finish off what planes started. I killed two BBs in a coop match that way planes softened them up secondary guns finished them off. Btw they had been damaged before by other ships before I took the one one by one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×