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Thunderstruck2016

Balance changes to the Belfast

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2 hours ago, Ju87s said:

Are you saying that on rare occasions, you have in fact seen the Easter Bunny?

 

At the mall every Spring... :fish_cute_2: 

 

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Edited by Sir_Davos_Seaworth

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The Belfast is getting changed. Along with Kutuzov, they are intended targets of the upcoming changes to IFHE and Smoke.

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I prefer the nassau to the KA.  faster reload makes it much easier to deal with pesky destroyers, she dodges torps better and with her turret layout it's much easier to get all your guns on target.  it seems these days a lot of tier 4 carrier clubbers are taking advantage of the fact that no tier 3 ships have any AA capable of being a deterrent and even without manual drops you can still wreck face, especially when they are platooned and working together.  also destroyers shrug off your secondaries and just charge in and torp you at point blank range if they have to.  Yeah, if you're in a game without carriers or dd's you're overpowered, but they don't seem to happen that often.

 

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10 hours ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

As Wargaming made damage the relevant metric for the IJN DD's nerfs, yes it relevant.

That wasn't the reason they were nerfed.

 

They were nerfed because they were literally cancer to T8+ Matches.

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looks like ifhe change isn't happening in the next patch.  so, until it happens,  we can say belfast is still OP.  

 

only DD that was even close to cancer was shima.      but  losing stealth fire affected lower tiers as well.    meh,  I just play ships that fit the meta so no biggy for me, but  it still made ijn DDs  really tough to do well with.    I'd rather troll the BBers with my udaloi or khab.   

 

 

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The only thing I took away from this thread is that since I don't have a Belfast, I really need to buy it before they remove it.

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55 minutes ago, centarina said:

only DD that was even close to cancer was shima

That was the only one that was heavily nerfed as well oddly enough.

 

And oddly enough -after- that happened games per week went up at T10.

 

 

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The big issue with König Albert is that she's effectively idiot proof.  She has a 10-gun broadside with 305mm guns (instead of 283mm guns found on Nassau) with a 30 second reload. She retains the same effective immunity to citadel hits. Toss on great secondaries, reasonable speed, handling and concealment and you've got a recipe for game balance disaster.  She's the hardest hitting, toughest battleship at her tier and not by a small margin either.  When played semi cautiously, she has the influence to swing matches all by herself through tanking and damage dealing.

Contrast this with Belfast.  She's not idiot proof.  Belfast has got the hitting power -- there's no arguing that.  She makes her own cover and then hoses down anything spotted within her gun range.  With stacked fires, she can hoover up damage long after she's ceased cycling her guns. Smoke also goes a long way towards keeping her safe.  But in those gaps in between, Belfast is highly vulnerable and she gets punished for mistakes.  This keeps her from being a dominant force in an average player's hands (while still making her absolutely disgusting in a veteran's). 

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A couple of things about the Belfast that compound it abilities is captain skills. My Belfast has had a 19 point IFHE captain in her since inception. Most of your other T7 CA's have not. This alone makes her appear to be much stronger than a normal ship. My Fiji for example started out with a 10-12 point captain.

A second thing is that a lot of players figured out around day 2 of her release that division her with a Fiji or another Belfast multiplies her power considerably because you can trade off smoke for the entire battle. A Fiji works a bit better because she has torps.

I think over time she will get weaker as people learn how to shoot into smoke. At T8+ any ship smoking up must slow down and usually get pummeled. This skill will trickle down to T7 and the Belfast will do less damage and its winrate will drop.

When they change IFHE it will also reduce some of it's damage. I don't think the Belfast is nearly as strong as she appears. There are a bunch of mitigating circumstances that act as multipliers to here win rate.

My personal results are 62 percent winrate and 46k with 200 battles. I bought her on day 1. A lot of her stats are from pre IFHE patch. My normal winrate is 52.3. I do less damage with other t7 CA/CL's. I guess I prove how strong the Belfast is. She is the highest damage CA/CL that I play except for my Zao and Hindenburgh. She is very close in damage to the Roon, Ibuki and Chappy, but slight higher.

 

 

 

 

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I have a better win rate in Fiji than Belfast for Solo, 2 man and 3 man divisions. Shchors is better in Solo play than either by a wide margin (68% vs. 58% for Fiji). Belfast is fragile and you have to take risks to get the most out of her. 

My performance in Nassau is closer to Konig Albert, but still well behind the Premium ship.  However, on the somewhat rare occasions I play KA I typically use my 19-point Bismarck captain to farm Mike Yankee Soxsix flags. Risks?  That a CV will come after me. That's it. Otherwise I just drive the Konig Albert around destroying red ships. Even a Nikolai isn't that scary because of the armor. That ought to tell you something. 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I have long held the belief that Belfast is only overpowered in very specific situations -- namely when she's caught a destroyer away from her support.  She does this better than Atlanta because she can pop smoke and still hound a given target, making her a tremendous bully in and around cap circles.  Pulling this off though isn't as straight forward as it sounds.  It takes a definite threshold of game play understanding to pull off this trick and survive.  Many Belfasts struggle to keep their ship relevant in between smoke generation clouds.

This.

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3 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

The big issue with König Albert is that she's effectively idiot proof.  She has a 10-gun broadside with 305mm guns (instead of 283mm guns found on Nassau) with a 30 second reload. She retains the same effective immunity to citadel hits. Toss on great secondaries, reasonable speed, handling and concealment and you've got a recipe for game balance disaster.  She's the hardest hitting, toughest battleship at her tier and not by a small margin either.  When played semi cautiously, she has the influence to swing matches all by herself through tanking and damage dealing.

Contrast this with Belfast.  She's not idiot proof.  Belfast has got the hitting power -- there's no arguing that.  She makes her own cover and then hoses down anything spotted within her gun range.  With stacked fires, she can hoover up damage long after she's ceased cycling her guns. Smoke also goes a long way towards keeping her safe.  But in those gaps in between, Belfast is highly vulnerable and she gets punished for mistakes.  This keeps her from being a dominant force in an average player's hands (while still making her absolutely disgusting in a veteran's). 

LWM is spot on here too.  I wouldn't recommend Belfast to a newer player.  Her smoke is not forgiving.  I'd recommend a Kutuzov first to someone who wanted to get into the smoke spamming business.  Belfast's bow is also overmatched by 203mm guns.  A CA not to mention a BB can slam citadels right down Belfast's throat, where as other T7 cruisers not named Atlanta can all auto-bounce 203mm head on.

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Ah as one of the few people who cannot play the Belfast well let me be the one to point out her weaknesses that often get me deleted.                               1) at long range her guns are very floaty and it's easy to drive out from under her shells, also when up tiered she's out ranged by most ships so sniping is not an option.                                  2 ) she's pretty handicapped by anything less than a 19 pt captain. Belfast needs a long list of captain skills to do well. Anything less than all thoes skills will leave her wanting.                    3 ) she speeds up and slows down about as fast as a train. Yes you can add a module but you give up something else to do it.                                        4 ) you've probably been critted by a Belfast and not noticed till later. She may bleed you out but she will never one button delete you.                                   5 ) if a bb gets a clear shot on her citadel your going back to the locker room for the rest of the match.                   6 ) your smoke circle is small and tier 7,8,and 9 torps are fast.  

Can a Belefast rock yes, but you folks never remember the one that got lit by the DD she was fighting and ate 3 crits from an Iowa to become the devastating and first strike ribbons for the Iowa.

Edited by Cirdane

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7 hours ago, Sakuzhi said:

That was the only one that was heavily nerfed as well oddly enough.

 

And oddly enough -after- that happened games per week went up at T10.

 

 

See relevant Developer quote on Reddit.  The top players are getting +100k damage games therefore the IJN DD's are balanced around them.

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4 hours ago, Cirdane said:

Ah as one of the few people who cannot play the Belfast well let me be the one to point out her weaknesses that often get me deleted.                               1) at long range her guns are very floaty and it's easy to drive out from under her shells, also when up tiered she's out ranged by most ships so sniping is not an option.                                  2 ) she's pretty handicapped by anything less than a 19 pt captain. Belfast needs a long list of captain skills to do well. Anything less than all thoes skills will leave her wanting.                    3 ) she speeds up and slows down about as fast as a train. Yes you can add a module but you give up something else to do it.                                        4 ) you've probably been critted by a Belfast and not noticed till later. She may bleed you out but she will never one button delete you.                                   5 ) if a bb gets a clear shot on her citadel your going back to the locker room for the rest of the match.                   6 ) your smoke circle is small and tier 7,8,and 9 torps are fast.  

Can a Belefast rock yes, but you folks never remember the one that got lit by the DD she was fighting and ate 3 crits from an Iowa to become the devastating and first strike ribbons for the Iowa.

I've one shot deleted Omahahahahahahas with my Belfast.  I dont get to do so often, but if people get sideways on me, I will remind them about Belfast's AP with extreme prejudice.

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