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Ajatcho

Why was the Carrier Graf Zeppelin built & never finished?

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+1 up for you.

A little side note is that German Engineers assisted in designing the new IJN carrier aircraft.

In our game, we must assume a time-line that led to it's actual use, trials, and adaptation into standard naval combat.

I would suspect German/IJN designs would be the norm.  The catapults would rust in place.

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VERY interesting video; thank you sincerely for posting this!

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3 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

+1 up for you.

A little side note is that German Engineers assisted in designing the new IJN carrier aircraft.

In our game, we must assume a time-line that led to it's actual use, trials, and adaptation into standard naval combat.

I would suspect German/IJN designs would be the norm.  The catapults would rust in place.

The catapults were an artifact of adapting a land based aircraft to naval use. Had the US Navy succeeded in using the P-51 Mustang on carriers, they would have been in the same boat. The catapult was fine for launching, but landing without killing yourself was worthy of an Air Medal.

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I think the big issues were the aircraft, and the catapult system for launching them.  The later was, quite frankly, just short of insane.  It was typical German engineering overkill in complexity.

23b1659db102e94e9353b10d585d99ed.jpg

The use of launch trollies, as shown above, required the plane to be put on one in the hanger using a overhead gantry crane.  The plane and trolley were then taken to the flight deck and moved to the catapult via a track system built into the deck.  The trollies had to be recovered at the forward end of the catapult and then returned to the hanger for reuse.

There was testing of it done with the various planes to be used on Graf Zeppelin, and I'd bet the tests showed the absurdity of the system for a mass launch of aircraft.

Rebuilding the ship to eliminate the catapult / trolley system... Which also definitely gets in the way of rolling take offs... to allow the more commonly used rolling take off, would have required a major amount of effort and expense.

Then there's the aircraft.  As the video notes, the Luftwaffe wasn't thrilled with supplying the planes or pilots for the carrier and that likely would have remained a big bone of contention.

So, between a bad and overly complex design, and a very real potential lack of aircraft, the carrier was cancelled.

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 0:56 PM, SgtBeltfed said:

The catapults were an artifact of adapting a land based aircraft to naval use. Had the US Navy succeeded in using the P-51 Mustang on carriers, they would have been in the same boat. The catapult was fine for launching, but landing without killing yourself was worthy of an Air Medal.

The US tested the P-51 aboard the USS Shangri La in 1944.

$_35.JPG

They also tested the B-25J at the same time.

6181409714_dde5bb569d.jpg

The P-51 was found to have several problems that would have made it a poor carrier plane.  The high stall speed was a real hazard for the pilot.  The plane's landing gear was to stiff causing the plane to rebound on hitting the deck and would have required major modifications.  The liquid cooled engine was also considered undesirable aboard ship.

The P-51 could take off and land using rolling take offs so that wasn't an issue.

http://www.mustang.gaetanmarie.com/articles/naval/naval.htm

Edited by Murotsu
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On 8/29/2017 at 9:20 PM, Murotsu said:

The US tested the P-51 aboard the USS Shangri La in 1944.

$_35.JPG

They also tested the B-25J at the same time.

6181409714_dde5bb569d.jpg

The P-51 was found to have several problems that would have made it a poor carrier plane.  The high stall speed was a real hazard for the pilot.  The plane's landing gear was to stiff causing the plane to rebound on hitting the deck and would have required major modifications.  The liquid cooled engine was also considered undesirable aboard ship.

The P-51 could take off and land using rolling take offs so that wasn't an issue.

http://www.mustang.gaetanmarie.com/articles/naval/naval.htm

 

Yeah, there's a lot of people around here that think you can take any plane and it's automatically a carrier-capable aircraft.  It's not that easy, nor simply tossing in a tailhook.  There have been a few aircraft in history that capably served both land and carrier based air forces, but those types are the exception.  Aircraft service life on a carrier deck is brutal.  You can watch WWII era or modern carrier flight deck operations, it's straight pounding for the planes.

 

And +1 for showing a Mustang on a carrier deck, that novel picture alone is worth it.  Bet it made for good bragging rights and stories for the pilot.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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