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mustangman6579

Trying to play a DD in CO-OP is nearly impossible.

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I honestly can't believe how much the AI cheats in CO-OP. 

 

I am trying to get this mission done before it ends and figured CO-OP would be the quickest way. Well, I could be wrong. 

Seems the AI ALWAYS knows where you are, spotted or not. I also learned that the entire fleet of AI will follow you around the map, even when you've never been spotted. 

 

I in fact even tried a game in my CV. The AI CV sent torp bombers straight at me, even though I not once got spotted. 

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IMHO, PvE is where WOWS developed/perfected the RDF skill.  I use that on the bots by heading one way at battle start and then switching to where I really want to go after a bit.  That often puts them slightly out of position.  I also use their focus on a DD (actually I think it is the lowest HP ship near them) to our advantage.  I can lead the red ships broadside across my team's guns; plus, they are not firing on my teammates.  In addition, the minute they start after me, I turn and stop firing for a bit;  they seem not to react to non-aggression and stop firing while continuing to follow me.  Oddly, I can then fire at them with no retaliation.  That is at around tier 6 and below.  Higher tier bots seem to be smarter and harder to use tricks on.

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At high tiers it is a trial. At low tiers DDs can be fun, Okhotnik is a machine of a death in PvE. 

AI following DDs is doubly negative: in addition to the DD driver who gets focused on, because all the ships are following the DD, on the other side of the map human players have few or no ships to shoot at.

Its a wrong idea and I and others have been asking for that to change for ages, but.... 

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3 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

IMHO, PvE is where WOWS developed/perfected the RDF skill.  I use that on the bots by heading one way at battle start and then switching to where I really want to go after a bit.  That often puts them slightly out of position.  I also use their focus on a DD (actually I think it is the lowest HP ship near them) to our advantage.  I can lead the red ships broadside across my team's guns; plus, they are not firing on my teammates.  In addition, the minute they start after me, I turn and stop firing for a bit;  they seem not to react to non-aggression and stop firing while continuing to follow me.  Oddly, I can then fire at them with no retaliation.  That is at around tier 6 and below.  Higher tier bots seem to be smarter and harder to use tricks on.

trying to play my Yugo, but with very little luck. I also love how they doge torps before they are spotted. 

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The lowest hit point seems to be a target for sure.  I've seen bots fire over 2 or 3 ships that were broadside to them at 2km to 3km away, just to shoot at me 10km away because I was low health.  Other than that, they will always target a DD first if it is close, even if another ship type is closer.

 

The AI will come steaming towards you in the most direct route no matter where you are.

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What's bad is that you can't fake out the higher tier bots by deselecting them.  I tried the Yugo in PT PvE and it was sort of painful.

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Knowing how the AI cheats can be an advantage, because you can use that against them. For example, they only know that you have launched torpedoes against them if you are targeting them at the time of launch. So, you target them, set your tubes around the lead indicator, then press the appropriate key (X) to switch targets just before you fire. If nothing else comes around to distract the bot, they will sail right into your torpedoes.

Island ambushes also work well, especially given how they tend to go right at you. Use the bots' strengths against them, turn their limited coping abilities against them.

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Yes, it's challenging at times, but it is by no means impossible. PvE makes driving a DD in randoms quite relaxing. DD is my preferred class to use in PvE.

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4 minutes ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

Knowing how the AI cheats can be an advantage, because you can use that against them. For example, they only know that you have launched torpedoes against them if you are targeting them at the time of launch. So, you target them, set your tubes around the lead indicator, then press the appropriate key (X) to switch targets just before you fire. If nothing else comes around to distract the bot, they will sail right into your torpedoes.

Island ambushes also work well, especially given how they tend to go right at you. Use the bots' strengths against them, turn their limited coping abilities against them.

I need to try this

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1 minute ago, mustangman6579 said:

I need to try this

It'll take a couple of games to get the hang of this, but in the end it will do you good not just for your co-op play, but for how you might approach random battles. It's all about being able to assess strengths and weaknesses, comparing them to yours, and using that knowledge to crush your enemies.

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DDs are tough to play in coop and I like it. Yes, the bots cheat. They have RPF since before we even new existed.

They target DDs and follow you in a conga line.

It makes for decent training.

 

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Yup, they always know where you are and a few patches ago, they always react to your torps WAAY out of range for them to react.

 

Gunship DDs, or Yolo is the only way to go.

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28 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

It's awesome DD training! 

LOL You definitely learn to dodge incoming fire! 

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I dunno, I played pve to get the bb kills and torpedo and got 4 torp hits in two different launches on an Iowa and killed a Kongo + a fuso in a seperate match. The pve bots are predictable, you just have to know how to play around it. I got the kills in 3 games in my shiri in pve. 

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46 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

At high tiers it is a trial. At low tiers DDs can be fun, Okhotnik is a machine of a death in PvE. 

AI following DDs is doubly negative: in addition to the DD driver who gets focused on, because all the ships are following the DD, on the other side of the map human players have few or no ships to shoot at.

Its a wrong idea and I and others have been asking for that to change for ages, but.... 

Another problem is that if the enemy ship is chasing your DD (or heck, any type of ship), it'll always have its bow towards you, which if you're trying to fire torps at that enemy ship, makes it very difficult to land torps in the normal way.

I've found that the best way to get torp hits, at least with lower tier DDs, is to make torpedo runs that would be suicidal in PvP battles.  The thing is that bot BB's aim poorly at lower tiers, and if you time your run correctly, you can do an incredible amount of damage.  Clemsons are devastating when doing this, particularly if there are two enemy BBs sailing near each other.  If you're quick, you can sail between the 2 bot BBs and dump both your port and starboard torps and smash both both BBs.

 

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29 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I've found that the best way to get torp hits, at least with lower tier DDs, is to make torpedo runs that would be suicidal in PvP battles.  The thing is that bot BB's aim poorly at lower tiers, and if you time your run correctly, you can do an incredible amount of damage.  Clemsons are devastating when doing this, particularly if there are two enemy BBs sailing near each other.  If you're quick, you can sail between the 2 bot BBs and dump both your port and starboard torps and smash both both BBs.

 

 

That's pretty much how I got through the first stage of the mission. At least for DDs you just can't play the way you would play in PvP, which is good and bad.

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21 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Another problem is that if the enemy ship is chasing your DD (or heck, any type of ship), it'll always have its bow towards you, which if you're trying to fire torps at that enemy ship, makes it very difficult to land torps in the normal way.

I've found that the best way to get torp hits, at least with lower tier DDs, is to make torpedo runs that would be suicidal in PvP battles.  The thing is that bot BB's aim poorly at lower tiers, and if you time your run correctly, you can do an incredible amount of damage.  Clemsons are devastating when doing this, particularly if there are two enemy BBs sailing near each other.  If you're quick, you can sail between the 2 bot BBs and dump both your port and starboard torps and smash both both BBs.

 

^^^ This!  I have DD's of all nations up to tier 5 or 6 and USN DDs to tier 9, with most of that played in PvE. You play much differently with a DD in coop than in randoms. I find it best not to sail out in front of the group, stick with a cruiser or battleship then leap out to attack. Another strategy that works much better in PvE is camping smoke. Let the battleships spot for you while you hide in your smoke. The bots rarely torp smoke like human players so it is much safer to sit there and pound away with guns, holding your torps until they get close. For engagements that take place in more open water, turn your torp reticle off before firing helps immensely. This only gives the bots the same amount of time to react as a human, in other words when the torps get into visual range. If your aiming reticle is on when you fire, the bots immediately react even though they are not in visual range of the torpedoes. It is an annoying thing with the AI but one that is easily overcome. With that said, Crucis is correct, make normally suicidal torp runs on BBs, the bots are not the best shots so if you engage your speed boost and do a bit of zig zagging, you will just devastate them. Does not work really well with cruisers, their high rate of fire means they will burn you down or blast you out of the water. You may get the kill but it will be a "one for one" trade. 

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What's the mission, and why not just do it in PVP?

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3 minutes ago, Ju87s said:

What's the mission, and why not just do it in PVP?

Kill 5 Bbs in a nonbb ship. Easier and quicker to do in pve since games are shorter and there are less people gunning for the kills. 

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38 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

^^^ This!  I have DD's of all nations up to tier 5 or 6 and USN DDs to tier 9, with most of that played in PvE. You play much differently with a DD in coop than in randoms. I find it best not to sail out in front of the group, stick with a cruiser or battleship then leap out to attack. Another strategy that works much better in PvE is camping smoke. Let the battleships spot for you while you hide in your smoke. The bots rarely torp smoke like human players so it is much safer to sit there and pound away with guns, holding your torps until they get close. For engagements that take place in more open water, turn your torp reticle off before firing helps immensely. This only gives the bots the same amount of time to react as a human, in other words when the torps get into visual range. If your aiming reticle is on when you fire, the bots immediately react even though they are not in visual range of the torpedoes. It is an annoying thing with the AI but one that is easily overcome. With that said, Crucis is correct, make normally suicidal torp runs on BBs, the bots are not the best shots so if you engage your speed boost and do a bit of zig zagging, you will just devastate them. Does not work really well with cruisers, their high rate of fire means they will burn you down or blast you out of the water. You may get the kill but it will be a "one for one" trade. 

A couple of points to further clarify what you've said.

1) Speed boost.  Hit the speed boost about 1 km before you're spotted.  Why?  To give your DD time to accelerate up to the higher max speed.  It's best to be sailing at max speed when you're detected to minimize the amount of time in your torp run.

2) Torp runs on cruisers.  Another thing to consider is that most cruisers have torpedoes.  And unless you know for a fact that they've already launched theirs, you can fully expect the cruiser to get its torps off before its sunk, and if you're on a suicidal torp run, you're probably going too fast to dodge the bot torps at such close range.

3) When trying to aim your torps during a suicidal torp run, don't get picky.  You don't have time to be precise, particularly if you're trying to launch multiple torp launchers.  My best results have come from aiming ahead a bit of where the aiming guide says to aim.  For whatever reason, if you aim right on the aiming guide, the torps usually seem to run behind where you want them to go.  So aim with more lead when you're at really, really short range.  Also, be aware that if you're too close, your torps may not have time to arm.  I don't know the exact range, but it's probably close to 1 km.

4)  This one should be obvious with a little thought.  The best suicide runs are made by charging at the bow of the enemy BB from directly ahead.  Why?  First, you limit the number of guns that can bear on you.  Secondly, your closing speed will be extremely high.  (If you try to make a torp run from behind, the closing speed will be rather low.)  Third, once you're close enough to fire your torps, all you have to do is turn a little bit left or right, rather than make a big turn like you'd have to do on a torp run from the side.  Should you turn left or right?  Try to go down the side of the enemy BB that's away from the direction his main guns are aimed.  Of course, if you're running between two BB's and trying to torp both, well, you go between them and that's that.

 

Edited by Crucis
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As long as you understand the bots cheat, playing dd's in co-op can actually be fun. 

Understand they know where you are, understand they have their guns pre-aimed at you, unless they are engaged with someone else. If they are, they will immediately disengage and go for you, no matter how dangerous the ship they are fighting is.

 

Running off a pink stain...

 

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XI1nD18.jpg

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In my experience, tier 4 is the last really fun tier for DD's in Co-op.  Tier 5 can be good too, but you see a lot of tier 7's and the AI really starts doing it's "be as big a Di$% to DD's as possible" thing.  I found playing any tier 5 premium DD to be utterly miserable because of that- you get focused from the get go, and are running for your life the whole match. not doing your job.  Normal tech tree DD's don't seem to get the redheaded stepchild treatment quite as bad- I enjoyed the hell out of my Podvoisky and Nicholas.

  Tier 6 is when it really starts getting rough.  Both Farragut and Gnevny seem to get swarmed as soon as you try to cap or shoot at anything... Phooey!

  Now they and ALL my premium DD's sit in port and rot- and will continue to do so until something changes.  No more premium DD's for me.  With 118 ships in port, I'm not about to waste my time with that nonsense- not when I have ships that are actually FUN to play in whatever mode I choose.

 Today I actually used my Izyaslav to get through the 5 BB kill mission in co-op.  Didn't take long at all, lol!   I used every trick you guys listed here and some I invented on the spot.  That little ship is nasty!  Got lucky with 2 games in a row with lots of BB's- before that I tried using cruisers and ran into none... (or if I did, they lasted 4 seconds after being spotted,lol)   For whatever reason, the bots will often let you get away with the point blank suicide drops that get you sunk in randoms.  And with 9 torps to drop, chances are very good for a kill or at least crippling damage.  Had so much fun, I forgot all about my intention to switch to Podvoisky after a few games!   I haven't used Clemmy in a while- it gave up it's good captain to Farragut, and I've nothing to replace it with at the moment.  (Wickes has a permanent captain- that ship is way too fun to keep starting over all the time!)  I remember it was just as fun to play the same way I played Izzy today.

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