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Other navy's candidates for legendary captains

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6 minutes ago, Omega_Weapon said:

Decent choices. What about Russia, France and Italy?

About the only 20th century Russian admirals of note are Kolchak and Kuznetsov. Kolchak is problematic though because of his role in the Revolution.

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Great selection, I like to propose:

 

For Japan Raizo Tanaka with destroyer skills.

 

For Germany Bernhard Rogge with cruiser skills and a healthy bonus of stealh.

 

For USA Clifton Sprague for CVs and Ernest Evans for destroyers.

 

For the UK Edward Fegen 

 

 

Edited by Jumarka

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I'm assuming the captains have to be of the WWII era, so that leaves out other notable captains.

I'm not as fluent in historical captains, aside from those already mentioned.  The only one I would greatly like to see would be Captain Tameichi Hara as an IJN Destroyer Captain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tameichi_Hara), though I believe he has enough proponents that I won't belay the point, and the question was about nations other than Japan and the US.

 

 

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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Just now, Jakob_Knight said:

I'm assuming the captains have to be of the WWII era, so that leaves out other notable captains.

I went with WWI era as well with my nomination for Karl von Müller

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1 hour ago, icyplanetnhc said:

 

I honestly would've preferred William Tennant as the reward captain for the Dunkirk scenario.

Jack Dunkirk is WG's attempt AT William Tennant..  Tennants nickname was Dunkirk "Joe" because of what he did there on HMS Wolfhound..  The Dunkirk Jack is actually the flag that was flown from the jackstaff of the ships as identification and is still flown today when the little ships get together every 5 years to recreate the crossing.  Tennants ship was the last to leave the beaches as he sailed up and down the beach with a megaphone calling for any last British survivors.

As a result, Tennant was appointed Companion of the Order of the Bath in 1940 and went on to become Captain of HMS Repulse.

M

 

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1 hour ago, Goose21891 said:

Wasn't Mountbatten the one blown up by the IRA in the 70's?

yes in Ireland on his own boat.

M

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49 minutes ago, Jumarka said:

 

For the UK Edward Fegen 

 

 

Wow.. unusual and rare choice, but yes a notable name and VC recipient from the Jervis bay incident :)  Because of his links and what he did, could Fegen not be a commonwealth commander?

It's a nice suggestion, but I would second Mountbatten as well for various reasons, but like Fegen actually served on ships in BOTH World Wars unlike the a lot of the more common suggestions.

M

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2 hours ago, Goose21891 said:

We'd probably get Jackie Fisher, Jellicoe, Tovey, Beatty, or Cunningham before Mountbatten

Sir Philip Vian tops those.

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Maximilian von Spee

 

Heroic victory, heroic defeat, heroic death... Legendary as all get out.

 

And he looks the part as well.

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hi

My thoughts on some good Commanders

1.Kapitän zur See Hans Wilhelm Langsdorff   

2.Kapitän zur See Hans Karl Friedrich Max von Müller

3.Admiral Wilhelm Franz Canaris

4.Admiral Maximilian Reichsgraf von Spee

I chose those German Commanders because they are not too controversial

And just for someone quiet unique and left field in the event we get a Austria-Hungarian ship

 Corvette Captain Georg Johannes Ritter von Trapp

Yes believe it or not he not only sang but had a distinguished career in U-boats and served aboard the protected cruiser SMS Zenta

So I'm certain there would so captain skills that could be suited for him.

Another option for Commander's of CV's could be not necessarily a ship Captain or Admiral but perhaps a particular Aircraft Squadron leader or even a Air Group Leader ( CAG ).  

Which would give extra benefits to CV captain skills.

Late entry but had throw this name in

Vizeadmiral Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière

He served on a number of ships during his career but will always be remember for his professional service and his respect for the " Rules Of Engagement " while serving aboard his U-boat during the First world war

there is certainly some captain skills that would suit him also.

regards

 

Edited by tm63au

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UK: I'd have to agree with it likely being Jellicoe or Beatty.

Germany I'd throw my vote for either:

Reinhard Scheer, Maximillion Von Spee,  Gunther Lutjens.

The former two don't really need defense as they speak for themselves (Jutland, Falklands), the latter I'll at least make the case for.

Lutjens would fit most in line with the WW2 commanders as well as he is notible for not supporting the Nazi's antisemetic views. Not enforcing the Nurnberg laws, as well as one of the officers that set a letter to Raeder protesting it, final nail would be refusing to use the Nazi salute during Hitler's visit to Bismarck, instead using a traditional salute.

He commander either directly or indirectly several ships we have in game: Karlsruhe (I believe it was), Scharnhorst/Gneisenau, Bismarck, and Prinz Eugen. Karlsruhe. Ultimately dying onboard Battleship Bismarck, likely when the bridge was struck.

After his death, West Germany named one of their guided missile destroyers for him. So if his behavior was such that the country that has/had some of the strictest anti-nazi laws would say that he was alright, I'd wager he should at least be safe enough for a game. The Lutjens served into modern Germany, only being decommisioned in the early 2000s.

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Canada's man = "Hardover" Harry DeWolf.

Capt of HMCS Haida - WWII

BTW this is just a thumbnail of his whole story...

The history of Canada's navy is rich with fascinating characters who dedicated their lives to the service of our country. They fought battles in the pitch of night, experienced and lived through wars and conflicts, and ensured the continued existence and development of our navy through their own personal sacrifice and devotion. Vice-Admiral Harry George DeWolf, the most highly decorated Canadian naval officer of the Second World War, served from Sept. 22, 1918 to May 25, 1961, and his 42 years of superb service to Canada epitomized the spirit of adventure we all seek.

At the tender age of 14, he left home to attend the Royal Naval College of Canada in Esquimalt, B.C. He remained at the college for three years and was sent to England as a midshipman to serve in HMS Resolution. After two years and four months he was promoted to Sub-lieutenant, took a course at the Royal Naval College in Greenwich, and spent six months studying gunnery, torpedoing and navigation. In the summer of 1925 he returned to Canada and joined HMCS Patriot, one of Canada's two destroyers (the whole Canadian navy at that time was comprised of two destroyers, a couple of minesweepers and a total complement of 500 officers and men). Early in 1930 , now Lt(N) DeWolf took command of the minesweeper training ship Festubert, operating from Halifax, a post he held for two years. In May 1931 he married Gwendolen Gilbert of Somerset, Bermuda. In 1932 the young DeWolf was posted to HMCS Vancouver, and the following year to HMCS Skeena (Canada now had four destroyers). In July 1935 he was called to service at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa where he was made assistant director of intelligence and plans, and was promoted Lieutenant Commander.

Convoy Duty in HMCS St. Lauren

When war broke out, DeWolf was appointed commanding officer of HMCS St. Laurent, and in that capacity did convoy duty out of Halifax until 1940. The ship was then ordered to England to assist with the evacuation of British and French troops from France following Dunkirk. While on anti-submarine duty in the North Atlantic, "Sally", (Sally Rand) was her full nom de guerre after the famous fan dancer of the day) rescued all 859 oil soaked survivors of the SS Andora Star, a liner that had been torpedoed by a U-boat.

With the St. Laurent a sitting duck in U-boat infested waters, her seaman, both in the ship's boats and over the side on the scramble nets, hauled in the survivors. Nearly all, as it turned out, were German and Italian prisoners bound for internment in Canada. DeWolf was twice mentioned in dispatches during this period. Before being relieved in July 1940, St. Laurent became the first Canadian ship to exchange shots with the King's enemies when she engaged a field battery of General Irwin Rommel's "Ghost" division near Ste. Valery-en-Caux on the Channel coast of France.

Rode a Live Torpedo Many years after the war, in the summer of 1960, Vice-Admiral DeWolf related the following HMCS St. Laurent story after being prompted by Admiral Rayner. "The mechanism of a live, armed torpedo was being painted by a sailor, who first lifted the safety catch to paint underneath it, and then lifted the firing handle to paint under that. The torpedo fired, naturally, and ran wild on deck," he said. "It slammed into the deck house, bounced off and kept changing around. Everybody, including me, was scared. The decks cleared pretty rapidly. Since we thought we were all going up any second, Petty Officer Ridge and myself decided to try and tame the torpedo. We got astride it. It was as slippery as a greased pig and we thought its propeller might cut our feet off. We rode and guided it over the rail and stuck one leg over the rail to hold it steady. The propeller was making a tremendous racket on the iron deck. We finally managed to release the air [edited] (the torpedo was driven by compressed air). We still had a live torpedo. When we got to port (in the United Kingdom) we hoisted it on the wall and left it there. I reported to headquarters, but I don't know what became of the torpedo."

HMCS HAIDA - One Canada's Most Famous Ships

In August 1943, DeWolf, who was promoted commander in 1940, was named commanding officer of the newly commissioned HMCS Haida, a Tribal class destroyer with a crew of 275 officers and men. "We had no facilities for training," he later said. "As we found a crew for a corvette we'd send an officer to sea the first day with them to show them what to do. It was almost as simple as that." Thus it was that on the night of April 25, 1944, at 2 a.m., Haida, three other Tribals and the cruiser HMS Black Prince were making a sweep off the Brittany coast when they fell in with three Elbing-class destroyers. Haida and HMCS Athabaskan went in pursuit of a single enemy ship, T-29, which they blasted to a blazing wreck until she went down. Shortly thereafter DeWolf was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (DSC) for services in action when, on June 8-9, 1944, he made contact with a powerful Narvik-class destroyer, Z-32, which he drove ashore on the Ile-de-Bas by gunfire after an all night action.

Return To Ottawa

In September 1944, newly promoted Capt(N) DeWolf was once more called to Ottawa and made assistant chief of naval staff. In January 1946 Acting Commodore DeWolf was invested with the Insignia of Commander (Military Division) of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire for his wartime services. In May 1946 he received the United States Legion of Merit, Degree of Officer.

From January 1947 to September 1948 DeWolf commanded both aircraft carriers HMCS Warrior and HMCS Magnificent, with additional appointment of senior Canadian naval officer afloat. In September 1947, the French government conferred on him the Cross of the Legion of Honour, rank of Officer, and in December 1948 he was awarded the Norwegian King Haakon VII Cross of Liberation. In September 1948 he was promoted rear-admiral, appointed flag officer Pacific coast and, after two years, was posted to Ottawa and appointed Vice-Chief of naval staff and a member of the naval board. On Dec. 15, 1952 Rear-Admiral DeWolf was sent to Washington as the principal military adviser to the Canadian ambassador, chairman of the Canadian joint staff, Washington representative of the chiefs of staff, Canadian representative of the military representatives committee of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and Canadian liaison representative to the Supreme Allied Commander, Atlantic.

DeWolf became chief of naval staff in Ottawa on Jan 16, 1956 and was promoted Vice-Admiral. He retired from the Royal Canadian Navy on July 31, 1960. On September 23, 1992, a 1.4 hectare park on the Bedford (Nova Scotia) waterfront was named the Admiral Harry DeWolf Park. Vice-Admiral DeWolf, passed away at his home in Ottawa on Dec 18, 2000 at age 97.

Edited by Furysghost
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3 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

France's is obvious right? Darlan.

 

Well... Yes and no. On the one hand, Darlan was probably the sole reason why France even had a standing navy by the time ww2 came around... On the other hand he was a bad person, being a Nazi symphasizer and all. He did more to help the Axis than the Allies. Though, credit where credit is due... He did scuttle the fleet at Toulon, true to his word. Though some might argue that Darlan was just giving Churchill a big fat middle finger in doing so, instead of his actions being purely to keep the navy out of Germany's greedy fingers.... It was probably a combination of the two.

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32 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

Well... Yes and no. On the one hand, Darlan was probably the sole reason why France even had a standing navy by the time ww2 came around... On the other hand he was a bad person, being a Nazi symphasizer and all. He did more to help the Axis than the Allies. Though, credit where credit is due... He did scuttle the fleet at Toulon, true to his word. Though some might argue that Darlan was just giving Churchill a big fat middle finger in doing so, instead of his actions being purely to keep the navy out of Germany's greedy fingers.... It was probably a combination of the two.

Wasn't it Jean de Laborde that scuttled the fleet?  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Laborde

 

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4 hours ago, Goose21891 said:

About the only 20th century Russian admirals of note are Kolchak and Kuznetsov. Kolchak is problematic though because of his role in the Revolution.

 

Probably too early for the game but they could go with Makarov. 

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27 minutes ago, BaronVonTom said:

Wasn't it Jean de Laborde that scuttled the fleet?  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_Laborde

 

 

Yes, following Darlan's original orders after the fall of France. That if Germany infringed upon it's agreement that the fleet would remain under French control under "German supervision" that the fleet should be scuttled. This was Darlan's promise to Churchill, Churchill did not believe Darlan and that led to the whole MEK fiasco. When the Fleet was scuttled at Toulon it proved that Britain's action at MEK were completely unnecessary and that it was murder, plain and simple. After Toulon, Darlan took the opportunity to write to Churchill telling him as much. Again, a big fat middle finger to Churchill.

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27 minutes ago, dseehafer said:

 

Yes, following Darlan's original orders after the fall of France. That if Germany infringed upon it's agreement that the fleet would remain under French control under "German supervision" that the fleet should be scuttled. This was Darlan's promise to Churchill, Churchill did not believe Darlan and that led to the whole MEK fiasco. When the Fleet was scuttled at Toulon it proved that Britain's action at MEK were completely unnecessary and that it was murder, plain and simple. After Toulon, Darlan took the opportunity to write to Churchill telling him as much. Again, a big fat middle finger to Churchill.

Yes I was aware of the "promise". I have never read anything that indicated Darlan gave the order to Laborde is why I asked.  Laborde paid the price with a Treason trial and the death sentence after he was found guilty for the scuttling.  Although he was pardoned in 1947.   Darlan on the other hand was shot dead before the war ended so no trial for him on any of his collaboration with the Germans.  It's interesting stuff no doubt.

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4 hours ago, MaliceA4Thought said:

Wow.. unusual and rare choice, but yes a notable name and VC recipient from the Jervis bay incident :)  Because of his links and what he did, could Fegen not be a commonwealth commander?

It's a nice suggestion, but I would second Mountbatten as well for various reasons, but like Fegen actually served on ships in BOTH World Wars unlike the a lot of the more common suggestions.

M

 

I tried to think of people who had to face hard situations and were not recognizable names.

Still cant think of good candidates for the Italian, French or Soviet navies.

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6 hours ago, Lert said:

Probably, but I like Mountbatten, and figured I'd nominate him over these more 'standard' choices.

Mountbatten just because Churchill despised him LOL.

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6 hours ago, icyplanetnhc said:

I honestly would've preferred William Tennant as the reward captain for the Dunkirk scenario.

Jack Dunkirk is William Tennant.

Sir-William-George-Tennant.jpgea0323ca-6189-11e7-b024-ac162d8bc1e4.jpg

6 hours ago, Goose21891 said:

About the only 20th century Russian admirals of note are Kolchak and Kuznetsov. Kolchak is problematic though because of his role in the Revolution.

To be fair, Kolchak was an anti-communist White leader. The only problem is that since the Bolsheviks won the civil war, communism is revered in Russia. If Russians today still despise Kolchak they wouldn't have allowed a movie of him to be made. Stepan Makarov is another good choice, seeing as many warships have been named after him.

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For the Italians when we get more ships, i would vote for Angelo Iachin given his strategic success at the Second Battle of Sirte. Inflicted heavy damage upon the British escorts against basically no damage to his own force in a disadvantageous position (very heavy smokescreen by the British, no radar for the Italian and orders to avoid losses) and was able to force the convoy south, leading to its latter near complete destruction. 

 

(Chose the Italians because i did not see anyone else do it)

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10 hours ago, icyplanetnhc said:

 

I honestly would've preferred William Tennant as the reward captain for the Dunkirk scenario.

let me guess..

His special ability should be "gives your spotting plane a boost of 200% hp and 200% duration. Changes the skin into a blue box" ☺ 

Edited by Tiracel

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10 hours ago, icyplanetnhc said:

For the US Navy, there have been several legendary admirals whose history are commonly associated with certain ship classes. Here are my quick suggestions, again just from the perspective of the US Navy.

 

Aircraft carrier: Marc Mitscher. The commander of the Fast Carrier Task Force, decimated the Kido Butai in the Philippine Sea. The USS Enterprise was one of his flagships, I believe.

Battleship: Willis Lee. One of the best battleship skippers of the US Navy, allegedly knew radar better than the operators, and expertly maneuvered the USS Washington to demolish the Kirishima at night.

Cruiser: Daniel Callaghan or Norman Scott. Both were on the USS Atlanta during the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal.

Destroyer: Arleigh Burke. "31-knot Burke" was quite the destroyer squadron commander, and lead DesRon 23. Ernest Evans (captain of the USS Johnson) also qualifies, as his sheer audacity in attacking the Center Force during the Battle off Samar helped turn back the Japanese force and prevented the amphibious landings from being devastated.

 

Other notable admirals include Raymond Spruance, who propelled the US to victory during the Battle of Midway and the Battle of the Philippine Sea, and Robert Copeland (captain of the USS Samuel B. Roberts), who like Evans attacked against overwhelming odds during the Battle off Samar. I'm personally not a big fan of William Halsey, but you can make a case for him as well.

 

Of all these captains though, I would nominate Mitscher.

-1 for Callaghan, as however righteous, he would have been court-martialed if he had survived, and well...see below

+1 for Norman Scott, as perhaps the second greatest tragedy of the Pacific Theater after Pearl Harbor was that we lost Admiral Scott to friendly fire of all things, and likely to the San Francisco, the ship Callaghan commanded

+78314097197 for good old Willis "Ching" Lee, who was one of the few to question Hallsey's Bull run, and could swat a fly with a 16 inch shell in total darkness.  Without a doubt, the best Battleship commander ever to serve in the USN post-Spanish American War.  If Hallsey had detached Lee's task force (as was the original plan), Lee's fast battleships would have crushed Kurita handily.  I have a personal stake here, as my grandfather served aboard LSM 237 at Leyte.  If Kurita's center force breaks through, I never exist.

+78314097197 for Commander Ernast E. Evans, for having more balls than any man to ever command a ship.  "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected."

+bonus points for Copeland, who concurred and completed the order:  "We will do what damage we can...SMALL BOYS ATTACK!"

+1 for Spruance, and your words leave just one thing unsaid:

-1 for not including Jack Fletcher, who possessed the most practicality and conservation of force, if not the strongest will in the long run

Jack Fletcher vs Tamon Tamaguchi at Midway would have been one hell of a clash...

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8 hours ago, dseehafer said:

 

Well... Yes and no. On the one hand, Darlan was probably the sole reason why France even had a standing navy by the time ww2 came around... On the other hand he was a bad person, being a Nazi symphasizer and all. He did more to help the Axis than the Allies. Though, credit where credit is due... He did scuttle the fleet at Toulon, true to his word. Though some might argue that Darlan was just giving Churchill a big fat middle finger in doing so, instead of his actions being purely to keep the navy out of Germany's greedy fingers.... It was probably a combination of the two.

IDK that I agree with that Analysis. He was a Supreme Commander, on the scale of Eisenhower, for his own nation, and had a great deal of pressure on himself to ensure that what was left of unoccupied France stayed as independent from the Nazi's as possible. And it is worth noting, he was in the process, for quite some time, trying to rejoin the Allies and have the Vichy French Armies become part of the Allied Push. He did it when he had the best opportunity that didn't make it likely to result in reprisals by the Germans in France (or limited, at best).  IDK if I'm comfortable calling him a 'sympathizer,' Collaborator sure, but it's very nuanced to why he did what he did. He wasn't a Nazi, that much is clear.

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