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hipcanuck

The dreaded 'submarine' word has surfaced!!!!

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https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/6wbxox/tldw_of_a_brief_qa_with_ev1n/

 

I am impressed that many of WOWS devs are Navyfield vets, as I was a CBT for that game and a vet of 10's of thousands of NF matches....however I would think that they would remember the devastation subs caused to the game in general, not to mention the other issues that plagued NF. From patch mutiny resulting in a rollback patch, failed premium ship launches, balance issues (1 year of CV's being impossible to use, 1 year of them being stupidly OP...then nerfed, then buffed again), tier based gun range complications eventually resulting in nationality gun ranges rather than tier ranges and the horrifying grind (initially) of the pitiful IJN BB line which culminated in the all powerful Super Yamato. While it could have been coincidence (perhaps the game had reached its end for many players) but the NF population was hurt hard by subs. They changed the game so drastically that many 'vets' bailed in frustration.

 

Here is the quote if you dont want to read it all.

 

10) (13:54) Submarines. We don't see a feasible way to include them into the game, since they're very very slow. But we are thinking about different possibilites. One of the many ideas was to have submarines players spawn behind the enemy spawn instead of their own team's spawn. That way you'd have a similar effect as in PUBG where you have that blue border pushing you in. That might be a similar effect. Whether or not that'll work... your guess is as good as mine. That's pre-design / concept, so don't expect anything anytime soon.

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Behind the enemy spawn?!? I fee like the teams would just turn around and hunt the subs at the start of the match if that was the case. It's a terrible idea and I hope we never see subs in the game.

Edited by Admiral_Derek
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Behind the enemy spawn could be a hilarious way to make the BBs actually move up. Just make it so BBs can't actually counter subs in any way other than outrunning them, so if you don't want your DDs to go cap things instead of defend you camping in the back, better actually move!

Don't think they belong in the game, but as an anti-camping move it's pretty amusing to think about. 

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Only way subs would ever be acceptable is as a scouting tool.  Give them a deck gun and torpedoes but nerf them so much that they're little more than an annoyance.  The submarines only real weapon should be stealth spotting.

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4 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

Behind the enemy spawn could be a hilarious way to make the BBs actually move up. Just make it so BBs can't actually counter subs in any way other than outrunning them, so if you don't want your DDs to go cap things instead of defend you camping in the back, better actually move!

Don't think they belong in the game, but as an anti-camping move it's pretty amusing to think about. 

 

Amusing, up until the couple subs get immediately swarmed by destroyers and light cruisers before they actually get a chance to do anything meaningful.

I mean, there was one game I had in Ranked a few seasons ago where, for some ungodly reason, the enemy Bayern spawned right next to my team. He didn't last long at all, and the only reason he even accomplished anything is because fragile cruiser (I was in Molotov) + BB at point-blank = insta-delete. So it'd be kind of like that, except that instead of an incredibly tanky battleship subs have less HP than destroyers and their attacks are a hell of a lot easier to dodge than BB shells from 5km away.

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No, really the best option to my mind is for them to finally bring in more challenging missions for players in random, in this case a convoy mission, each side having to to get bot convoy ship from A to B across the map, and DDs having to ferret out bot submarines that can be expected to be lying in wait to do their thing. Yes, sonar and depth charges for DDs, a whole new dimension of play to incorporate. This I am entirely in favour of--manned subs, ehhh no.

Mind you I might go for this:

Spoiler

MANNED TORPEDOES

Torpedo.jpg.49c2ead7f4df1b62e04ae218a309db9e.jpg

 

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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38 minutes ago, Izolyn said:

 

Amusing, up until the couple subs get immediately swarmed by destroyers and light cruisers before they actually get a chance to do anything meaningful.

I mean, there was one game I had in Ranked a few seasons ago where, for some ungodly reason, the enemy Bayern spawned right next to my team. He didn't last long at all, and the only reason he even accomplished anything is because fragile cruiser (I was in Molotov) + BB at point-blank = insta-delete. So it'd be kind of like that, except that instead of an incredibly tanky battleship subs have less HP than destroyers and their attacks are a hell of a lot easier to dodge than BB shells from 5km away.

 

How about AI controlled subs that are immune to damage, do not factor into the win conditions, cannot cap anything, are slower than the slowest ship in that match, and exist only to punish campers since avoiding them is as easy as actually pushing forward? 

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Of course, if there are subs, then they'd have to equip every DD and many cruisers with Hydroacoustic Search and make it unlimited use but subject to a cooldown like repair parties as that is the only way you're going to be able to find a submerged sub. And I'm sure sub drivers will love the sub 10kt submerged speed...the 10km or so spotting range submerged...and having to resurface to recharge their batteries all the time. Except for the snorkel models, who will be heard for miles around when they are running on the diesel. If WG wants a game with subs, they need to design a new game around them.....WoWS doesn't work with them. 

Edited by Tiberius67

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lol like actual ship speeds matter? they could easily put subs in the game and go the battlestations midway route!

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1 hour ago, TTK_Aegis said:

Behind the enemy spawn could be a hilarious way to make the BBs actually move up. Just make it so BBs can't actually counter subs in any way other than outrunning them, so if you don't want your DDs to go cap things instead of defend you camping in the back, better actually move!

Don't think they belong in the game, but as an anti-camping move it's pretty amusing to think about. 

:Smile_great:

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1 hour ago, TTK_Aegis said:

Behind the enemy spawn could be a hilarious way to make the BBs actually move up. Just make it so BBs can't actually counter subs in any way other than outrunning them, so if you don't want your DDs to go cap things instead of defend you camping in the back, better actually move!

Don't think they belong in the game, but as an anti-camping move it's pretty amusing to think about. 

Except that the players in these subs would spend the match trying to chase my carrier down (yes, my CV skipper knows where the engine order telegraph is, and is not a semi-mobile island) and I would assign one of my dive bombers to 5 O'Clock charlie him for the rest of the game. not like a sub counts as a moving target.

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1 hour ago, hipcanuck said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/6wbxox/tldw_of_a_brief_qa_with_ev1n/

 

I am impressed that many of WOWS devs are Navyfield vets, as I was a CBT for that game and a vet of 10's of thousands of NF matches....however I would think that they would remember the devastation subs caused to the game in general, not to mention the other issues that plagued NF. From patch mutiny resulting in a rollback patch, failed premium ship launches, balance issues (1 year of CV's being impossible to use, 1 year of them being stupidly OP...then nerfed, then buffed again), tier based gun range complications eventually resulting in nationality gun ranges rather than tier ranges and the horrifying grind (initially) of the pitiful IJN BB line which culminated in the all powerful Super Yamato. While it could have been coincidence (perhaps the game had reached its end for many players) but the NF population was hurt hard by subs. They changed the game so drastically that many 'vets' bailed in frustration.

 

Here is the quote if you dont want to read it all.

 

10) (13:54) Submarines. We don't see a feasible way to include them into the game, since they're very very slow. But we are thinking about different possibilites. One of the many ideas was to have submarines players spawn behind the enemy spawn instead of their own team's spawn. That way you'd have a similar effect as in PUBG where you have that blue border pushing you in. That might be a similar effect. Whether or not that'll work... your guess is as good as mine. That's pre-design / concept, so don't expect anything anytime soon.

Whoever said they are "very very slow" sure doesn't know WW2 subs very well. Top speed of the German Type VII sub (most common type used in WW2) is 17 knots (surfaced). They are also VERY maneuverable. Thing is, subs in WW2 were NOT made to engage warships. They were made to sink supply ships. Only time a sub would purposely engage a warships was in something like the Bismarck situation. Warships normally have escort ships. And that means DDs and depth charges. Subs only submerged when they got near to visual spotting range. They didn't and couldn't cruise around at 6 knots. They would never be able to catch up with a surface ship at that speed. They stayed surfaced and drove in FRONT of the convoy, then submerged and drove at them at 6 knots. WG needs to invest in Silent Hinter III and actually PLAY a sub to learn how to USE them.

 

Now if WG decides to do a German Type XXI sub (probably at tier 10), surface ships will be in deep poop. That sub was made to stay UNDERWATER most of the time and was virtually undetectable by most WW2 DDs. So it's adios amigos to pretty much any ship it encounters. :Smile_Default:

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On 8/27/2017 at 0:55 PM, Deputy276 said:

Whoever said they are "very very slow" sure doesn't know WW2 subs very well. Top speed of the German Type VII sub (most common type used in WW2) is 17 knots (surfaced). They are also VERY maneuverable. Thing is, subs in WW2 were NOT made to engage warships. They were made to sink supply ships. Only time a sub would purposely engage a warships was in something like the Bismarck situation. Warships normally have escort ships. And that means DDs and depth charges. Subs only submerged when they got near to visual spotting range. They didn't and couldn't cruise around at 6 knots. They would never be able to catch up with a surface ship at that speed. They stayed surfaced and drove in FRONT of the convoy, then submerged and drove at them at 6 knots. WG needs to invest in Silent Hinter III and actually PLAY a sub to learn how to USE them.

 

Now if WG decides to do a German Type XXI sub (probably at tier 10), surface ships will be in deep poop. That sub was made to stay UNDERWATER most of the time and was virtually undetectable by most WW2 DDs. So it's adios amigos to pretty much any ship it encounters. :Smile_Default:

17 knots was the MAX speed. Crusing speed was around 10 knots. Submerged max was about 8, cruising was about 4. So yes WW2 subs were VERY SLOW.

Edited by IronWolfV
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I'd like to see subs....

 

But as NPC boats in PVE games.

 

it would be cool to have a convoy mission with a sub hunt mechanic for the DDs.

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That would be a sweet PvE scenario

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43 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

43vZUVq.gif

N1AVxfq.jpg

Ok, Normally I love seeing you posting this

BUT

The dev's said it. This guy is just relaying it. So I apologize, but I think you are out of context.

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As somebody who spent two hours last night staring at the sonar waterfall of the USS Connecticut in Sub Command:

 

Why the hell would anybody want a sub in this game?

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2 minutes ago, RevolutionBlues said:

As somebody who spent two hours last night staring at the sonar waterfall of the USS Connecticut in Sub Command:

 

Why the hell would anybody want a sub in this game?

I used to stare at a sonar screen for a living, back when the waterfall style was in developement.... our sonar (should say sonars as we had 5 different types on Can DD's)  was still a 'pinger'.

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11 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

I used to stare at a sonar screen for a living, back when the waterfall style was in developement.... our sonar (should say sonars as we had 5 different types on Can DD's)  was still a 'pinger'.

 

While it's an enjoyable experience in a sim game where I know there is a target out there for me to shoot at,  I can't imagine it would be nearly as much fun to do for 10 hours a day. xD

 

What ship(s) did you serve aboard if you don't mind my asking?

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26 minutes ago, RevolutionBlues said:

 

While it's an enjoyable experience in a sim game where I know there is a target out there for me to shoot at,  I can't imagine it would be nearly as much fun to do for 10 hours a day. xD

 

What ship(s) did you serve aboard if you don't mind my asking?

 

HMCS Saguenay in the early to mid 80's.  The only time we had to seriously pay attention to it on rotating shifts was if we actually had something/someone to play with or during exercises. Usually USSR subs between Greenland and the southern tip of Nova Scotia, where we would hand the contact off to a US destroyer. Typically we'd get notified that a sub had passed through the Iceland Greenland gap from the NATO systems and whatever destroyer was on Fisheries patrol was reassigned to look for the sub. Mind numbing work listening for them, but not difficult as Russian nuke subs of the era weren't very quiet. Finding ranges was typically done by triangulating with a helicopter dropping sonobuoys or dipping a transducer in the water.

 

Using active sonar was regarded as a provocation if you were sniffing around a Russian sub, you only needed to ping if you need a range and you only need a range if you are looking for a firing solution. Im certain sub commanders would take offense to that given ASROC's come in fast and land on top of a contact with no warning and are generally fatal to a sub.

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I want submarines though. It'd add more depth and strategy to the game. I find the arguments of naysayers always hilarious to read, though :)

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