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GreyFox78659

Graf Zeppelin limiting CCs development input.

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In my opinion the CCs are the problem as people like me have payed for the ship BTW like it needs some tweaking but I get the feeling it will be turned into a cookie cutter carrier not the close in support Battle Carrier it should be. We should get more say over the CCs that complained and scared people off of it and cause the current mess and grief I get when playing GZ. 

 

That being said I think her focus should be toward her German concept of an aircraft carrying cruiser. She needs a bit more armor to stay up with the BBs and she should focus on sinking smaller support ships. Like DDs and CLs also I think she needs hydro search as a consumable. Her loadout is perfect and should keep steering toward keeping shorter range sorties not CV sniping. I would say find away to allow bomber to switch bombs out over giving her TBs. Her concealment is ok my need a slight improvement. Torpedoes bombers really aren't nessary if you keep the short sorties concept in fact might hurt as she will dropping near friendly ship most of the time.

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wow, just ... wow

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

In my opinion the CCs are the problem

thank you for sharing

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

We should get more say over the CCs that complained and scared people off of it and cause the current mess and grief I get when playing GZ. 

so you would rather the CC say nothing and let the playing public buy a bad ship?

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

people like me have payed for the ship BTW like it needs some tweaking but I get the feeling it will be turned into a cookie cutter carrier not the close in support Battle Carrier it should be.

if you have (legitimate) opinions you should share them with the developers in a (well thought out and punctuated) forum post in the correct section

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

That being said I think her focus should be toward her German concept of an aircraft carrying cruiser

do you mean like Ise and Tone; the IJN ships they cannot balance?

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

She needs a bit more armor to stay up with the BBs and she should focus on sinking smaller support ships.

CV's don't get armor; they get airplanes

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Like DDs and CLs also I think she needs hydro search as a consumable.

of course you do pookie!

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Her loadout is perfect and should keep steering toward keeping shorter range sorties not CV sniping

wouldn't want to sink a friend now would you?

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

I would say find away to allow bomber to switch bombs out over giving her TBs.

well then her loadout isn't as perfect as you say, is it?

1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Torpedoes bombers really aren't nessary if you keep the short sorties concept in fact might hurt as she will dropping near friendly ship most of the time.

and God knows that a CV player can't control where his torps go.

 

just go play a battleship; and learn to type better because correctly punctuated whining is always better

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Why would a cv ever use or need hydro? You're clearly not playing them right. You can just use your planes to spot torps and from anywhere around the map, not just near your ship. :fish_palm:

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The problem with CC's is that too many people are focused on their opinions and parroting them instead of forming their own.  CC's start raving about this or that and bam, the community turns to hysteria. Alabama... RDF... people join the masses without the knowledge or experience because X person or Y person says to. CC's are good in the sense that they are able to give us some idea of whats coming down the pike, what things are like, etc. However, taking their words for gold is what far too many people do and it is almost dumbfounding how people will join a flock like sheep. 

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21 minutes ago, Batwingsix said:

The problem with CC's is that too many people are focused on their opinions and parroting them instead of forming their own.  CC's start raving about this or that and bam, the community turns to hysteria. Alabama... RDF... people join the masses without the knowledge or experience because X person or Y person says to. CC's are good in the sense that they are able to give us some idea of whats coming down the pike, what things are like, etc. However, taking their words for gold is what far too many people do and it is almost dumbfounding how people will join a flock like sheep. 

 

People have plenty of their own hysteria without getting it from someone else...

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if you wish to make a purchase , without any input from other people,  on a product that once you play it, you cant return for a refund,  only to find it an unplayabele piece of .........,  you are welcome to do so

 

i like being able to see the ship being played, getting the opinion of others on what is good  and bad about it,  and then being able to make an informed choice,  before i make an investment.

 

 and you have to remember, not every cc has the same opinion  of every ship they review,  some like one ship, while others dont, what one feels is a strength, another might feel  is not good.  on occasion, they all do agree with each other 

sometimes they say the ship is op and is a must buy,  sonethimes they say its a turd that just needs to be flushed away

 

 the graff z was that every cc that played it thought it was bad and said so,  one of the best carrier players in the game said he cant make this ship work

but because you like it,       everyone else is wrong, and should stop telling others what their opininon is

 

shouldnt your advise also apply to you, shouldnt you also stop telling others what to think.......    but as usual, your advice dosnt apply to you, only to  others

 

 

 

 

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All they need to do is fix the Stuka bomb issue and give them the regular SAP bombs that they actually used in the Med to attack RN ships. Parachute drag bombs are a dead end. The TB issue is a dead letter unless they add the FW-190 as a late-war upgrade. Let the folks who paid for it (I am not one and will not drive CVs until the whole CV issue is fixed) give their feedback to the devs for 30 days and they will fix it. I got sunk twice by a GZ yesterday, properly played by its' owners despite the handicaps. Those same two drivers used their fighters to establish air superiority in a masterful fashion. GZ not impossible to use, but it IMHO does require a skilled CV driver.

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1 hour ago, Umikami said:

wow, just ... wow

thank you for sharing

so you would rather the CC say nothing and let the playing public buy a bad ship?

if you have (legitimate) opinions you should share them with the developers in a (well thought out and punctuated) forum post in the correct section

do you mean like Ise and Tone; the IJN ships they cannot balance?

CV's don't get armor; they get airplanes

of course you do pookie!

wouldn't want to sink a friend now would you?

well then her loadout isn't as perfect as you say, is it?

and God knows that a CV player can't control where his torps go.

 

just go play a battleship; and learn to type better because correctly punctuated whining is always better

 Thank you for your contribution. Now go back to playing call of duty or what ever FPS you were playing before you started playing WOWS. 

 

Tone is a scout cruiser.

Ise was a desperation move.

Graz Zeppelin is more like the modern day Kuznetsov a cruiser that has a flight deck. She can hold her own without planes.

 

BTW I find that is some complains about grammar it's a sign they lack much of a counter point and use the crutch of punctuation to prop up their argument by saying in a round about way I am smarter. But like the pretty everyone else that tries that argument you don't  much have a clue about proper grammar as in the English language we capitalize the first letter of sentences. It's like rule number one.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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40 minutes ago, Batwingsix said:

The problem with CC's is that too many people are focused on their opinions and parroting them instead of forming their own.  CC's start raving about this or that and bam, the community turns to hysteria. Alabama... RDF... people join the masses without the knowledge or experience because X person or Y person says to. CC's are good in the sense that they are able to give us some idea of whats coming down the pike, what things are like, etc. However, taking their words for gold is what far too many people do and it is almost dumbfounding how people will join a flock like sheep. 

Ditto:Smile_medal:

 

l am getting so much flak for playing in aggressive style that I think she excels at really ticks me off. People just want me to be that guy in the back they blame for losing instead of actually moving forward with the group providing close support. I put that straight on the CC who basically state the CV are responsible for winning or losing. Which isn't the case I have played games where afk carrier did nothing and we still won.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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2 hours ago, GreyFox78659 said:

In my opinion the CCs are the problem as people like me have payed for the ship BTW like it needs some tweaking but I get the feeling it will be turned into a cookie cutter carrier not the close in support Battle Carrier it should be. We should get more say over the CCs that complained and scared people off of it and cause the current mess and grief I get when playing GZ. 

 

That being said I think her focus should be toward her German concept of an aircraft carrying cruiser. She needs a bit more armor to stay up with the BBs and she should focus on sinking smaller support ships. Like DDs and CLs also I think she needs hydro search as a consumable. Her loadout is perfect and should keep steering toward keeping shorter range sorties not CV sniping. I would say find away to allow bomber to switch bombs out over giving her TBs. Her concealment is ok my need a slight improvement. Torpedoes bombers really aren't nessary if you keep the short sorties concept in fact might hurt as she will dropping near friendly ship most of the time.


No.  A carrier needs none of those things.  They don't need armor, they don't need hydro, that's ridiculous.  You want a carrier to stand up to destroyers and cruisers?  Then use them like are are meant to be used, protected by an escort that has all those things.

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10 minutes ago, Vulgarr said:


No.  A carrier needs none of those things.  They don't need armor, they don't need hydro, that's ridiculous.  You want a carrier to stand up to destroyers and cruisers?  Then use them like are are meant to be used, protected by an escort that has all those things.

You need to understand that is the cookie cutter stuff that needs to be junked on Graf. She was meant to operate on her own without escort in fact she was meant to escort BBs. The balance is she was really meant to not take on big ships was designed to take on smaller ships. This is where the lemmings who follow CCs seem to not get and now we have this mess where a truly intriguing concept is being shoehorned into a paradigm she was never meant to fill. She is a support battle carrier not a fleet carrier which is what the lemmings want. I don't want that I have Enterprise, Saipan, they fill the role well we don't need another cookie cutter carrier. That is why I think the CC need to be  minimized in her development. They want the delete button that hides in the back that is not what Graf was designed to do.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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1 minute ago, GreyFox78659 said:

You need to understand that is the cookie cutter stuff that needs to be junked on Graf. She was meant to operate on her own without escort in fact she wa meant to escort BBs. The balance is she was really meant to take big ships she was designed she should take on smaller ships.


So your solution is to completely alter the mode for 1 ship in a class of ships where players constantly scream about unbalance issues.  Got it.  That should work fine.

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38 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Graz Zeppelin is more like the modern day Kuznetsov a cruiser that has a flight deck. She can hold her own without planes.

First, try not to overwhelm me with your skills by incorrectly typing the name of the ship; incredibly impressive in a debate!

Second, if you actually believe that utter nonsense and tripe, grab your bad-azzed cruiser/CV and go do battle with some tier 8 CA's and CL's. See how you "wundership" stacks up against an Edinburg or a Atago.

15 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

You need to understand that is the cookie cutter stuff that needs to be junked on Graf. She was meant to operate on her own without escort in fact she wa meant to escort BBs. The balance is she was really meant to take big ships she was designed she should take on smaller ships.

38 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

She can hold her own without planes.

and you are freaking delusional (and your typing is horrible; proofread?)

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27 minutes ago, Umikami said:

First, try not to overwhelm me with your skills by incorrectly typing the name of the ship; incredibly impressive in a debate!

Second, if you actually believe that utter nonsense and tripe, grab your bad-azzed cruiser/CV and go do battle with some tier 8 CA's and CL's. See how you "wundership" stacks up against an Edinburg or a Atago.

and you are freaking delusional

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_aircraft_carrier_Admiral_Kuznetsov 

 

I think you need to move on as I can tell you don't own this ship and can go complain about said fact elsewhere.

In her current form I delete those ships you quoted with some regularity. I use HE as the AP is currently junk. Again attacking grammar is conceding the debate.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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25 minutes ago, Vulgarr said:


So your solution is to completely alter the mode for 1 ship in a class of ships where players constantly scream about unbalance issues.  Got it.  That should work fine.

I would think the current class that screams about CV is BB which I am stating in purpose Graf is supposed to protect them from aircraft and smaller ships much like a cruiser would do. Hence the aircraft carrying cruiser label I give her. She is ultimately an aircraft carrier but not a normal kill BB and CV type she is a I am going to stay up near by and pick off those pesky small ship so you can keep your gun concentrated on the bigger ship. Her current form does that and could be better at it with my suggestions. But this concept flies in the face of the current "back of the bus" paradigm that CV currently have.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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1 minute ago, GreyFox78659 said:

I think you need to move on as I can tell you don't own this ship and can go complain about said fact elsewhere.

In her current form I delete those ships you quoted with some regularity. I use HE as the AP is currently junk.

Typing and grammar still up to your usual high standards, eh?

1. I am calling you a liar; show me a replay or a screenshot of you "DELETING" those ships WITH YOUR GUNS (which is what you said in your previous post).

2. You are actually going to compare this second rate Nazi tuna boat against a nuclear powered carrier?!?! This German pile of snot carried 42 planes, did 34 knots, and it was way to armored for it's own good; this POS is the definition of an ESCORT carrier which WoW jumped up to a real CV so they could sell them to no talent fools like you.

3. What you really are asking for is a (totally screwed up and horribly implemented) premium ship to be RADICALLY modified to fit YOUR playstyle; I want to wish you absolutely no luck whatsoever with that.

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Can you please actually contribute to the debate? Or are going to continue with the ad nausem, ad hominem attacks?

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. You are actually going to compare this second rate Nazi tuna boat against a nuclear powered carrier?!?! This German pile of snot carried 42 planes, did 34 knots, and it was way to armored for it's own good; this POS is the definition of an ESCORT carrier which WoW jumped up to a real CV so they could sell them to no talent fools like you.

In concept the Kuznetsov and Graf Zeppelin are the same. Also please stop showing your ignorance Kuznetsov is not nuclear powered. Also read the wiki article as Russia does not refer to Kuznetsov as an aircraft carrier but and aircraft carriering cruiser.

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1 hour ago, Batwingsix said:

The problem with CC's is that too many people are focused on their opinions and parroting them instead of forming their own.

let me test the ship for a few days without forking out the price of an AAA game and i'll be happy to form my own opinion.

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43 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Can you please actually contribute to the debate?

you mean stop disagreeing with you? no.

39 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Russia does not refer to Kuznetsov as an aircraft carrier but and aircraft carriering cruiser.

don't care if they call it the good ship lollipop; if it carries planes it's an aircraft carrier, a ship which carries aircraft

41 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

In concept the Kuznetsov and Graf Zeppelin are the same.

in the exact same way Langley is the same concept as the USS Ford

47 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

are going to continue with the ad nausem, ad hominem attacks

yes; for as long as you advocate changing the current Graf Zeppelin abortion into your personal, customized Graf Zeppelin abortion.

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1 hour ago, Umikami said:

you mean stop disagreeing with you? no.

don't care if they call it the good ship lollipop; if it carries planes it's an aircraft carrier, a ship which carries aircraft

in the exact same way Langley is the same concept as the USS Ford

yes; for as long as you advocate changing the current Graf Zeppelin abortion into your personal, customized Graf Zeppelin abortion.

Disagree all you want but as of this post you have not stated your opinion on a fix just attacked mine. Do you know how to debate or just troll?

I provided a point you presented no counter point just ad hominems please move on to bash GZ topic or ideally provide a constructive counter point. I.E. your idea of a fix for the Graf Zeppelin or are you just trolling someone that disagrees with you. BTW stating CVs need a fix in general is not part of this topic just fixes for this ship. Do I need to dumb this down for you or are you going to rage on further, following me to another topic like you have done already. From this point I am responding only to counter points on fixes for GZ from you. Everything else will just confirm to me you are an illiterate troll with no ideas.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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15 minutes ago, Monty9185 said:

One question, why are you asking in another thread for the premium carrier Kaga as compensation if you think the ship is more or less fine as she is?

 

Whisky Tango Foxtrot??

Yeah that was more more of a grift I don't care if I get it Graf is fine but might as well ask never know.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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Just now, GreyFox78659 said:

Yeah that was more more of a grift I don't care if I get it Graf is fine but might as well ask never know.

 

It's still a rather bizarre request.

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