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dseehafer

What's the Difference: Scharnhorst class 2.0

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Greetings all,

 

This is simply going to be a much more detailed version of my old Scharnhorst class WTD. Primarily, this is taking advantage of new information that I have gathered and also the fact that you can now post more pictures in a single thread. Unlike the old version, I shall try to use actual historical photos to point out the differences instead of using shipbucket blueprints as, although almost always accurate, they are still drawings and aren't is irrefutable as actual photos. Also unlike the old version, where I compared the ships in one timeframe, I will be showing off visual changes that the ships received over time.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Gneisenau

 

Below is Gneisenau on Sea Trials, probably in early 1939. Notice that she has a straight bow (arrow), no triangular funnel cap (arrow), and has a catapult on her C turret (arrow). Also, notice that there is a large gap between her funnel and her small hangar, which also has a catapult on its roof. Finally, notice that her Admiral's Bridge has no large windows, it is an open bridge with no roof.

 

UNK5tNw.jpg

 

 

Here is Gneisenau after her September/39 refit. She now has a curved Atlantic bow to improve her sea-keeping capabilities (arrow), and a large triangular funnel cap to keep smoke away from the bridge (arrow). Notice also that there is still a catapult on C turret (arrow) and that her bridge is still open with no windows (arrow)

 

C07TOhj.jpg

 

 

Here we see Gneisenau in 1940, notice that her bridge is now enclosed (arrow). Furthermore, her C-turret catapult has been removed (not visible). She received the bridge upgrade just before Operation Wesserubung in April/40. Her C-turret catapult had been absent as early as February/40

 

ljPX9An.jpg

 

 

A 3D model of Gneisenau's new bridge

 

lLVsOuk.png

 

 

The next and last major refit occurred immediately before the famous Channel Dash. Most notable during this refit she received two triple torpedo tubes and her small hangar was replaced with a much larger one (arrow). You may notice that there is no catapult on top of this new hangar. This is because the catapult is inside the hangar, when in operation the hangar side's have sliding doors that open to allow the catapult to be swung out to launch its aircraft. This hangar and the operation of its catapult can be seen on our Gneisenau in-game.

 

uD4iJaB.jpg

 

 

Gneisenau as she appeared during Operation Berlin (January-March 1941). Notice the Atlantic bow, enclosed bridge, triangular funnel cap, small hangar, and lack of a catapult on C-turret.

 

omv92uK.png

 

 

Gneisenau as she appeared during the Channel Dash. Notice her new large hangar and also her new torpedo tubes mounted outboard of her boat-cranes.

 

OCyLPry.png

 

 

 

 

Scharnhorst

 

 

Here we see the brand new Scharnhorst. Notice that she has a straight bow and an open windowless bridge.

 

9drDypi.jpg

 

 

Here we see Scharnhorst in 1939 at the launch of the Tirpitz. Notice that her mast is on her funnel (arrow), also notice that, unlike Gneisenu, there is no gap between her hangar and her funnel, this is because Scharnhorst was given a much larger hangar than Gneisenau. Also, unlike Gneisenau, Scharnhorst would keep this hangar throughout her entire career. Finally, notice the catapult on C-turret.

 

vB3QfLY.jpg

 

 

Here we see Scharnhorst after her August/39 refit. Notice that her main mast has been moved from her funnel to the rear of her hangar (arrow). Also notice her new curved Atlantic bow and triangular funnel cap. The catapult on C-turret still remains, this would be removed just before operation Wesserubung in April/40. Notice that her bridge is still open and windowless.

 

ebRsmXa.jpg

 

 

Scharnhorst would remain structurally unchanged until she finally received an enclosed bridge after the Channel Dash, having spent the majority of her career with an open bridge. An arrow points to the new bridge.

 

kHicm5P.jpg

 

 

A 3D model of Scharnhorst's new bridge

 

SSYNfk3.png

 

 

Her old bridge.

 

AQFftvS.jpg

 

 

Scharnhorst as built with straight bow, no funnel cap, open bridge, her mast on the funnel, and a catapult on C-turret.

 

31y5rYd.png

 

 

Scharnhorst at the end of her career with an enclosed bridge, a curved bow, a triangular funnel cap, torpedo tubes, her mast moved to her hangar, and no catapult on C-turret.

 

oXu2z7y.png

 

 

 

Physical Differences

 

 

Admiral's Bridge: Other than the fact that Gneisenau spent the majority of her career with an enclosed bridge where Scharnhorst spent the majority of her's with an open bridge, the platform behnd their respective enclosed bridges differed as well.

 

Gneisenau's

 

DpxhPy9.png

 

 

Scharnhorst's

 

51DLLJZ.png

 

 

Decks: In the image below, seen from Gneisenau, arrows point out storage lockers on the deck. Only Gneisenau had these, and they ran up and down the length of most of the ship.

 

86pdITp.jpg

 

 

Scharnhorst's naked deck

 

SIm0ShV.jpg

 

 

Forward AA director Supports: The bases to the supports on both ships differed slightly...

 

Gneisenau's were conical and ended in a point.

 

5XkI1gn.jpg

 

 

Scharnhorst's were sloped and ended flat alongside the superstructure sides.

 

DrgafsR.jpg

 

 

Hangars: This has already been touched on...

 

Gneisenau had two different hangers during her career, one small and one large.

 

1fSCjLa.png

 

 

Scharnhorst used only one large hangar for her entire career. 

 

cdIo07p.jpg

 

 

Masts: Gneisenau's main mast was always on her funnel, even after she received a new hangar. Scharnhorst's was only briefly on the funnel before being moved to the rear of her hangar where it sat for the rest of Scharnhorst's career. Refer to previous images.

 

A-Turret: Even with their Atlantic bows the ships still proved very wet forwards, making the range-finders in the forward turret useless. Both ships had a diferent solution to this problem...

 

Gneisenau kept her A-turret range-finder ears for her entire career, though, they were plated over to keep water out of the turrets.

 

qTlSB7o.jpg

 

 

Scharnhorst had hers removed entirely.

 

FTDxnvF.png

 

 

 

Other Differences

 

 

Length: Originally, both ships were 229.8 meters long overall. After their reconstructions, however, Scharnhorst emerged slightly longer with a new overall length of 235.4m compared to Gneisenau's new length of 234.9m.

 

Displacement: Initially Gneisenau displaced slightly more than Scharnhorst at 31,632t standard and 37,902t full-load as compared to 31,552t standard and 37,822 full-load for Scharnhorst. However, by the end of their respective operational careers, the tables had turned with Scharnhorst displacing 39,017t full-load and Gneisenau behind at 38,434t.

 

AA weapons: By the end of their respective careers Scharnhorst had four extra quad 20mm AA guns compared to Gneisenau, all other things being equal.

 

Machinery: Though both had the same 12x Wagner boilers and produced the same S.H.P (160,100) Scharnhorst's engines were Brown-Boveri geared steam turbines where Gneisenau's were Deschimag geared steam turnines. Gneisenau's proved much more reliable and Gneisenau herself proved faster, once reaching some 33kn while intercepting the HMS Glorious while the fastest speed ever recorded by Scharnhorst was 31.65kn. Scharnhorst, however, had storage for 6,108t of fuel oil where Gneisenau could only carry 5,360t, giving Scharnhorst a superior cruiser range of 7,100 nmkts at 19kn compared to Gneisenau at 6,200 nmkts at 19kn.

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Edit: Forgot to add Scharnhorst blueprints, they're in there now. :Smile_popcorn:

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Nice observations! How did you make the 3D blueprints?

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An update to one of my favorite post series? Sweet! :Smile_great:

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30 minutes ago, FayFay731 said:

Nice observations! How did you make the 3D blueprints?

 

I didn't, they are actually 3d print models on a modeling website.

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1 hour ago, Doomlock said:

An update to one of my favorite post series? Sweet! :Smile_great:

 

This is what happens when I get bored....

 

 

lol

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I've said it before and I'll say it again... In my opinion, 1940/1941 Gneisenau is the most beautiful warship ever. :fish_happy:

 

Image result for gneisenau gif

 

 

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In the two side-on line drawings of Scharnhorst it looks like her bridge roof director changed quite considerably - being replaced with something much larger.

Any idea if it was a new rangefinder or radar integrated unit?

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11 minutes ago, mofton said:

In the two side-on line drawings of Scharnhorst it looks like her bridge roof director changed quite considerably - being replaced with something much larger.

Any idea if it was a new rangefinder or radar integrated unit?

 

Yep, the big rectangle on top of her 10.5m range finder is her FuMO 27 type radar, which replaced the FuMO 22 radar in early 1942. Interestingly enough, even though Scharnhorst lived longer than the Gneisenau, by the end of their careers they had the same radar loadout. You can see the same rectangle FuMO 27 on Gneisenau in her second blueprints, as well as on the channel dash picture of her that points out her new hangar. On the first Gneisenau blueprint, you can see her FuMO 22 mount. That first blueprint of Scharnhorst is of Scharnhorst when she was first commissioned, she doesn't have a radar mount on top of her 10.5m RF yet.

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Does the Gneisenau model in the game actually come out longer than the Scharn?

 

I suppose that is from the gun upgrades/refit that she never really got?

 

Thank you for the nice pics!

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7 hours ago, Rommel_41 said:

Does the Gneisenau model in the game actually come out longer than the Scharn?

 

I suppose that is from the gun upgrades/refit that she never really got?

 

Thank you for the nice pics!

 

Yes, sir. Gneisenau's conversion would have increased her length, beyond the 800' mark even!

 

Here you can see the extra length on the conversion on the bottom.

 

Image result for gneisenau conversion

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8 hours ago, Kirishima_Desu said:

Those Atlantic bows alone increase the aesthetic appeal of these ships by at least a factor of 2 in my opinion.

 

Agreed. Interesting little fact for you... of all of Germany's capital ships, only Tirpitz was built and launched with an Atlantic bow. Deutschland/Lutzow, Admiral Scheer, Admiral Hipper, Prinz Eugen, Blucher, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Bismarck, and Graf Zeppelin were all launched with straight bows and received Atlantic bows later on. Graf Spee was scuttled before she could receive hers.

 

Bismarck at launch

 

Image result for bismarck launch

 

 

Compared to Tirpitz at launch

 

Image result for tirpitz launch

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Its to bad we didn't get the 283mm Gneisenau as the early hulls,those changes would have added some cool variety.

 

The C turret catapult,I gather the aircraft cranes can reach back that far?They look a bit short in the stowed position.

 

Also,ship noob here ,why were the early bridges open ( on these and other ships ),especially on ships for the Atlantic?

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On 8/27/2017 at 4:52 AM, dseehafer said:

A 3D model of Gneisenau's new bridge

 

lLVsOuk.png

 

Why weren't the bridges enclosed from inception?

If that is the bridge, what is conning tower for? Gun directing?

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Just now, _cthulhu_ said:

Why weren't the bridges enclosed from inception?

If that is the bridge, what is conning tower for? Gun directing?

 

Who knows. Hipper originally had an open bridge as well (See Hipper's A hull in-game). Heck, as long as we're talking about in-game ships... the Hindenburg also has an open bridge... which is extremely confusing given her late-war setup.

 

Conning tower was for use during combat. Otherwise, the admiral's bridge, which offered superior visibility and point of view, would be used when not in combat.

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7 hours ago, dseehafer said:

 

Who knows. Hipper originally had an open bridge as well (See Hipper's A hull in-game). Heck, as long as we're talking about in-game ships... the Hindenburg also has an open bridge... which is extremely confusing given her late-war setup.

 

Conning tower was for use during combat. Otherwise, the admiral's bridge, which offered superior visibility and point of view, would be used when not in combat.

It is interesting, some engineering choices that seem like the designers fortgot what the north Atlantic conditions are like and how freaking cold it got.

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