Being invisable while shooting

[HMCS_Devilfish]

I was under the impression obviously mistaken impression that when you fire your main guns you become visable for a number of seconds yet today I saw shells  coming from the water with no ship , it was tier 1 so no smoke , had seen this at the beginning of the game also anyway after I sunk I followed this ship around and sure enough he fired lots of shells without his ship becoming visible and when he did become visable he usually wasn't shooting 

I do have some screenshots of it 

[Lert]

Ships detection blooms to their max firing range when they fire, so you were not 'obviously mistaken'. But if someone fires at your ship while you're out of range and they fire where you'll be when the shells land, you're not going to see them firing.

[RipNuN2]

Replays are better than screenshots and as Lert stated the player in question was likely firing beyond max range to get the target to walk into range.

[ExploratorOne]

This^.  I do that frequently.  The target is barrelling along and I fire ahead of them.  It works best when I can match their speed and course just out of detection range.  Works especially well  for floaty shells like USN 152s.  Of course, the target has to maintain a straight course with no WASD hacks for that to work consistently.  (Can't be any enemy ships with line of site and in your gun range, too.)

 

What ship were they in, BTW?

[TheKrimzonDemon]

I do the same as those above, I fire in advance, knowing they'll sail right into my shells. Lead time can be a wonderful, butt-sechsy surprise for those thinking all is well in their neck of the pond.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

It was an Orlan .. I rarely play tier 1 but just found the Bougainville in my port and took it out for a spin .. maybe the closer ranges make this more visible.. no pun intended  .. odd with so many games I've played this is the first time this was blatantly happening 

[Lert]

9 minutes ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

maybe the closer ranges make this more visible

^

[dionkraft]

THIS is an arcade game it does not follow the theory of reality or reason other than the what is programmed in to make it the programs reality.  Kinda like the Movie: The MATRIX

[HMCS_Devilfish]

1 hour ago, dionkraft said:

THIS is an arcade game it does not follow the theory of reality or reason other than the what is programmed in to make it the programs reality.  Kinda like the Movie: The MATRIX

Yes it is an arcade game that has iron clad game mechanics that are not always obvious

when Wows announced that you would become visable when you fired your guns guess I missed the part that this will not happen if shooting  your guns out of there range and nobody in your detection range

[Bril01]

It is entirely possible to fire in front of an advancing ship wile it is still outside your detection range, allow them to sailing into your rounds and remain undetected.  You can play hide and go seek using island to block line of sight while firing.  You just need to be more creative with how you stealth fire now then before.

[desmo_2]

He also could have been firing over an island.  That will keep him concealed even within gun bloom range.

[dionkraft]

7 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Yes it is an arcade game that has iron clad game mechanics that are not always obvious

when Wows announced that you would become visable when you fired your guns guess I missed the part that this will not happen if shooting  your guns out of there range and nobody in your detection range

I agree with you in your views as to how broken this all is but...well this is the way it's programmed unfortunately.  I also thought that any kind of 'Invisifiring' was dealt with by exposure in the smoke of the shooter would hppen and ideas of gun bloon would disapate or lessen the smoke or yadayada...well that didn't happen.  Well that it - time to UNINSTALL WOW..and I did. Saving some money now around $50-70 month projected considering what I spent from Jan 1st.  But back to shooting from the undetected area was kinda caught people blind sided - no pun intended - but thats the way it is.  The reality is that some players want the status quo and others a change to a more realistic expectation of events. You and I choose the latter.  The argument can't be settle nor one is right and one is wrong. Its all the programming and who controls that.  

[Skpstr]

8 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Yes it is an arcade game that has iron clad game mechanics that are not always obvious

when Wows announced that you would become visable when you fired your guns guess I missed the part that this will not happen if shooting  your guns out of there range and nobody in your detection range

 

Unlike before, when the tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, it doesn't make a sound.

 

But I like it this way. It was annoying before, when you fired from behind an island, then were detected from 20km away 5 seconds later when you came around that island. It was as if we were using age of sail cannons with old-school gunpowder, when your ship would be pinpointed by a huge haze of smoke well after firing.

 

Now it seems more like it's just the actual muzzle flash that gets you spotted, which is more realistic.

[Bril01]

9 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

when Wows announced that you would become visable when you fired your guns guess I missed the part that this will not happen if shooting  your guns out of there range and nobody in your detection range

 

The change didn't make you detected just because you fired, it increased your detection to the range of your guns.  If no one was in range of your guns when you shot, then no one would see the gun bloom.  Of course this is discounting things like islands blocking line of sight or cheeky smoke firing.

[Skpstr]

4 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

 

The change didn't make you detected just because you fired, it increased your detection to the range of your guns.  

 

Or decreased, as the case may be.

[Bril01]

3 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Or decreased, as the case may be.

 

Yeah, I heard it actually decreased the detection range of some BB after they fire.

[HMCS_Devilfish]

1 hour ago, dionkraft said:

I agree with you in your views as to how broken this all is but...well this is the way it's programmed unfortunately.  I also thought that any kind of 'Invisifiring' was dealt with by exposure in the smoke of the shooter would hppen and ideas of gun bloon would disapate or lessen the smoke or yadayada...well that didn't happen.  Well that it - time to UNINSTALL WOW..and I did. Saving some money now around $50-70 month projected considering what I spent from Jan 1st.  But back to shooting from the undetected area was kinda caught people blind sided - no pun intended - but thats the way it is.  The reality is that some players want the status quo and others a change to a more realistic expectation of events. You and I choose the latter.  The argument can't be settle nor one is right and one is wrong. Its all the programming and who controls that.  

Im happy here at Wows,have bought a number of premium ships and other stuff, the money I do spend is well worth the entertainment value

What I would like to see is a manual (bible) were all Wows knowledge on anything Wows related,game mechanics,ships campaigns, updates is written down .. turn to section C page 21 for game mechanics on visibility 

 

tis a Great game and much fun 

[Skpstr]

3 hours ago, Bril01 said:

 

Yeah, I heard it actually decreased the detection range of some BB after they fire.

 

For sure, although I would think the default concealment would override it.

 

IJN BBs benefit most AFAIK.

[NCC81701]

15 hours ago, ExploratorOne said:

This^.  I do that frequently.  The target is barrelling along and I fire ahead of them.  It works best when I can match their speed and course just out of detection range.  Works especially well  for floaty shells like USN 152s.  Of course, the target has to maintain a straight course with no WASD hacks for that to work consistently.  (Can't be any enemy ships with line of site and in your gun range, too.)

 

What ship were they in, BTW?

 

15 hours ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

I do the same as those above, I fire in advance, knowing they'll sail right into my shells. Lead time can be a wonderful, butt-sechsy surprise for those thinking all is well in their neck of the pond.

 

The utility of firing out of range for the enemy to "walk into" your shells is dubious at best. Without target lock your dispersion is automatically doubled + the already high dispersion at long ranges means you're unlikely to get any hits, and even if you do the damage is light. In return your spotting range becomes your gun range making it far more likely for your opponents to spot where you are and estimate your intentions. It's far better to stay hidden and use your stealth get into a better position to fire and surprise your enemies than to lob shells "hoping" your enemies are stupid enough to sail into them. 

[AJTP89]

2 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Im happy here at Wows,have bought a number of premium ships and other stuff, the money I do spend is well worth the entertainment value

What I would like to see is a manual (bible) were all Wows knowledge on anything Wows related,game mechanics,ships campaigns, updates is written down .. turn to section C page 21 for game mechanics on visibility 

 

tis a Great game and much fun 

But there is:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships

Pretty much everything is there, in neatly organized categories, thanks to the hard work of some of our players. And yes, it is official.

[ExploratorOne]

Very true. But, opportunistic free damage while I am moving into position is always a nice bonus.

[IronWolfV]

15 hours ago, Lert said:

Ships detection blooms to their max firing range when they fire, so you were not 'obviously mistaken'. But if someone fires at your ship while you're out of range and they fire where you'll be when the shells land, you're not going to see them firing.

Also if you're just inside a low landmass where you can just get your guns over, you can actually stealth fire as the enemy won't have enough of a ship to spot using the spotting mechanics. It's hard to pull off, but in certain places it can be done.

[TheKrimzonDemon]

51 minutes ago, NCC81701 said:

 

 

The utility of firing out of range for the enemy to "walk into" your shells is dubious at best. Without target lock your dispersion is automatically doubled + the already high dispersion at long ranges means you're unlikely to get any hits, and even if you do the damage is light. In return your spotting range becomes your gun range making it far more likely for your opponents to spot where you are and estimate your intentions. It's far better to stay hidden and use your stealth get into a better position to fire and surprise your enemies than to lob shells "hoping" your enemies are stupid enough to sail into them. 

Lol, you obviously don't use this tactic. I get an absurd number of cits doing this, because the target isn't taking any evasive actions. Also, if you think dispersion is "poor" when shooting at a target you aren't locked onto, then imagine how bad your hit chance is shooting at a target you can't even see. To the best of my recollection, I've never been hit while doing this, and am only very rarely spotted. Timing is everything. Timing, something else you fail to utilize. :D

 

Thank you for my LOL of the day.

[NCC81701]

11 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

Lol, you obviously don't use this tactic. I get an absurd number of cits doing this, because the target isn't taking any evasive actions. Also, if you think dispersion is "poor" when shooting at a target you aren't locked onto, then imagine how bad your hit chance is shooting at a target you can't even see. To the best of my recollection, I've never been hit while doing this, and am only very rarely spotted. Timing is everything. Timing, something else you fail to utilize. :D

 

Thank you for my LOL of the day.

 

I don't see why anyone would need to shoot back at someone that is shooting wildly into the sea and just hope someone would walk into their shells. The only way this works is that people you are playing against are even dumber than you are. You can keep playing dumb if you want or you know... you can actually play smart; your choice.