Is it OP? The VMF Khabarovsk

[Destroyer_Zeka]

ah, the mighty, mighty Khab. Largely regarded as an "I win"  ship, and that reputation is very well deserved. Packing a good mix of guns, speed, and even armor, Khabarovsk is a true force to be reckoned with when in skilled hands. She's far bigger then other DDs of other nations, similar to her predecessor at tier IX, the Tashkent, whose size is her biggest weakness, but unlike the Tashkent, Khabarovsk has 50mm of side armor plating to protect her, making low caliber HE and even some cruiser HE shatter against her hull. At the same time, this also increases her vulnerability to AP rounds. but at 12km+, optimal range for her, good luck hitting her. With a top speed of 43 knots base, this can cap at 48.7 knots. her concealment her a DD is terrible, base 10km. but who cares? You're gonna be lighting things up and be spotted most of the match anyways. You might be able to see that Khab 12 away spamming you down with HE, but good luck hitting her. Her guns, don't even get me started. Her guns are fantastic, The shell ballistics and ergonomics are great, if not phenomenal, and her turrets don't take half a year to turn around. She is an unrivaled fighter but works best at range(obviously), harassing  larger surface ships with HE and sometimes even AP spam against broadside targets. But is she really OP? Lets find out.

Spoiler

Lets define "OP": When i say OP, I dont mean Original Poster. Nor do I mean overpowered. When I say "OP" I refer to how well the ship performs compared to her skill floor. How well does the Khab burn things? How well does she run and gun stuff down? How easy is it to do well in for someone who just unlocked the ship and is playing their first game? That is what I mean by "OP"

 

That being said, her major pros and cons

 

Pros:

-Extremely good guns with fantastic shell ballistics

-Very fast at 43 knots, 48.7 with modifiers

-Hard hitting fish at 19,500 damage per 

-Very hard hitting guns and consistent damage from both HE and AP

-Very good fire starter

-Fast reload

-Quick rudder shift time (With modifiers)

 

And her Cons:

-Rather large turning circle for a DD

-Worst concealment for any DD, making it harder to disengage when needed

-Gets easily spotted and focused

-Does not like close quarters

-Fish as slow loading, and they're slow and short ranged

 

But we need more info then that to come to a verdict. Lets start off with her survivability 

 

Khaba has 22,500 base HP and 26,000 HP when fully upgraded with SE. A DD with 26k HP is nothing to sneeze at. As for her armor, she's still a DD, so don't get too exited. That being said, it is thicker then most. Around the engine rooms and midsections of the ship, Khaba packs 50mm of side armor plating. this gives you a significant advantage over DDs of other nations, because their HE can literally shatter harmlessly against your hull while you tear them apart with your Russian railguns. While this can increase your vulnerability to AP rounds, at range you are very very difficult to hit, and most people will give up after a few failed salvos, in search of an easier target. This destroyer is also one of only 2 destroyers that can mount REPAIR PARTIES. Thats right. Khabarovsk can heal. if you do manage to hit him, watch as his health slowly rises back up while you think to yourself "this is gonna be a long game." She's also great for farming Dreadnought medals +1 OP

 

Artillery is fantastic, as emphasized before. Her guns are the first and second to last in turning speed, with only 9 seconds to turn the guns 180 degrees. With the MBM3 that only bumps it up to 10 seconds. Her shells are very very fast in the air at 900 m/s, and they keep their speed very nicely indeed. Their damage is very consistent and reliable (Although RNG can and sometimes will screw you over). Her fire chance is like that of all VMF DDs. She's basically a flamethrower. Of course, she's no Atlanta or Zao, but for a DD, very nice fire starter. Her gun bloom is rather large, extending out to 13,5km but still not an issue. VMF DDs don't need stealth, after all. They're gunboats through and through. They rely on speed and their rudder for their survival, not their stealth. With AFT (A must have for any VMF DD), her guns can reach out and touch someone from 13.5km, and they only take 10 seconds to get to the target even at that range, owing to her great shell ballistics. Overall, this category is a +1 for OP.

 

Her torpedoes surprisingly don't absolutely suck.They still do suck, but not completely. They're situational and very rarely used, but when they are, they do not disappoint. While they are slow and short ranged, at 53 knot speed and 6km range, those things do 19,500 damage each. If those things hit you, you're gonna know all about it. They're extremely stealthy fish as well. they can only be spotted by a target from a mere 600 meters, or 0.6km. She can put out 10 torpedoes in a salvo. Two quintuple launchers, both centerline mounted.  All in all, a very solid torpedo armament, even though it will rarely be used. But at the same time, these fish can be the difference between life and death, victory and defeat. She's no Fletcher or Shima, and will rarely use her fish. Don't try to play her like a torpedo boat. if you do, then you don't need to play these DDs.But still very solid torps, but very situational. +0.5 for OP here.

 

What about her AAA? For a DD, rather good. With the right mix of commander skills, you can push her AA rating up to around about 50, give or take (which mine is currently at), although you can certainly get that higher with more skills and upgrades. But this is still DD AAA firepower, so its really nothing to write home about, but it's still very powerful for a DD. +0.5 for OP here

 

As for maneuverability, you travel at a ludicrous speed of 43 knots. She's faster still then Kiev and Tashkent, as well as Udaloi and Grozovoi, not by much, but still faster. She's wayyy faster then the Yugumo and Fletcher, and still decently faster then the Z-52. Tier for tier, she's the fastest of all 4 of the tier X DDs. Her turning circle of 760 meters is still large for a DD, but of you've made it as far as tier X in the VMF DD line, then you're probably used to that. Her rudder shift time, with both Steering Gear Mods. 2 and 3 installed, drops to 5.3 seconds. This makes the dodging shells life easy for her. She's large for a AA DD, but is still fast AF so she dodges shells from enemies like a dream. Another VMF DD or CA will likely prove at very least troublesome, as they have the same flat arcs and very high velocity shells that you have, making them able to hit you at least better then most other CAs or BBs. But all in all, +1 for OP here

 

Last up is concealment. Her SDR of 10km is high for a DD, but since when does a VMF DD care that it's spotted? If you're in this ship (or any Soviet DD, for that matter), you're going to be spamming your guns like there's no tomorrow. Plus, you're fast and maneuverable enough to reliably dodge incoming fire. The only problem here is that DDs of any other nation will easily outspot you, making you undesirable for  early capping of flags directly unless enemy resistance is minimal. You're more of a support ship, but again, if you've made it as far as tier X in VMF DDs, then that's nothing new to you. But with one (or both) concealment modifiers, you can at least be somewhat competitive in the cap circle. I do not recommend, however. But for all intents and purposes, concealment is meh. +0

 

The grand tally(out of 6)

Survivability: 1

Artillery: 1

Torpedoes: 0.5

AAA: 0.5

Maneuverability: 1

Concealment: 0

 

And the grand tally is 4/6. Not bad. Not bad at all

 

The final verdict:

Spoiler

This ship is very very powerful indeed. But at the end of the day, Khabarovsk is BALANCED, comrade! 

Spoiler

PART 2, follow up coming soon when i stop being lazy and start writing it

 

[Lampshade_M1A2]

I hate fighting Khabs. They're either HE spamming my battleship at their max range or I run into them with my tier 8 destroyer and I want to hit my head against a wall as my HE does nothing or my AP bounces off of them because they're at an angle.

[UltimateNewbie]

I think Khabs should get balanced by requiring an even number of them on each team. There is precedent for this, like the mini-maus from WoT. 

[Kapitan_Wuff]

I just recently got mine and have been loving it so far. That's about all I can say.

[Lert]

Is the pope catholic?

[JediMasterDraco]

I totally agree. Khab is a very dangerous ship, especially one-on-one where she can pretty much overwhelm anything with her brutal firepower while dodging or deflecting any return fire. But, she tends to get focused a lot (my priority target counter rarely dips below three when I'm in her) and she doesn't have the endurance to survive multiple ships shooting at her for very long. But, she isn't a Nikolai where she can charge forward, obliterating everything and taking very little damage in return.

[Wulfgarn]

Many T10 ships are pretty deadly.

[MrDeaf]

take away that 50mm side armor and 25mm deck armor. Then it will be balanced.

[crzyhawk]

7 minutes ago, Lert said:

Is the pope catholic?

This.

[SimiaStoicus]

This thread is like a couple of patches too late. Khaba  ain't nearly as op as before with all the nerfs and buff to German secondary range. 

[Skyfaller]

You forgot the very features that make it OP because they combine with all that on your list:

 

Acceleration: Superb in both forward and reverse speeds. This allows it to shift from half to full and avoid any shells coming at it from farther than 8km away with just 1 pnt of rudder.

Fire chance: While you did mention it, it is worth mentioning the 'hidden' stat: The fire chance of ALL soviet ships is 50% higher than listed stats. This has been parsed and proven.

Torpedoes: Keeping up with the soviet bias, WG removed the 10km torps from it.... and buffed its shorter range torpedoes to have a LITERALLY impossible to dodge torps with a 600m~ spotting distance.

Autobounce/'hidden' superarmored areas. This is typical of WG...it happened in WOT with the Chinese (oh I mean, soviet in mufti flag) T59. By design the thing has areas where even Yamato shells will bounce off. Its moronic...and very WG.

 

This ship has no balancing 'cons'. The 'pros' are so absurdly OP that its high detection range (for a DD) is irrelevant.

 

Khab needs to receive a performance nerf. I say make it have high speed but slow acceleration (think mogami type acceleration) and have it bleed speed very quickly when turning. That alone balances the ship.

[Czevak]

Like any ship, it is very strong in the hands of a great player. But while the Khab is pretty good it isn't plain OP.

[Destroyer_Zeka]

6 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

You forgot the very features that make it OP because they combine with all that on your list:

 

Acceleration: Superb in both forward and reverse speeds. This allows it to shift from half to full and avoid any shells coming at it from farther than 8km away with just 1 pnt of rudder.

Fire chance: While you did mention it, it is worth mentioning the 'hidden' stat: The fire chance of ALL soviet ships is 50% higher than listed stats. This has been parsed and proven.

Torpedoes: Keeping up with the soviet bias, WG removed the 10km torps from it.... and buffed its shorter range torpedoes to have a LITERALLY impossible to dodge torps with a 600m~ spotting distance.

Autobounce/'hidden' superarmored areas. This is typical of WG...it happened in WOT with the Chinese (oh I mean, soviet in mufti flag) T59. By design the thing has areas where even Yamato shells will bounce off. Its moronic...and very WG.

 

This ship has no balancing 'cons'. The 'pros' are so absurdly OP that its high detection range (for a DD) is irrelevant.

 

Khab needs to receive a performance nerf. I say make it have high speed but slow acceleration (think mogami type acceleration) and have it bleed speed very quickly when turning. That alone balances the ship.

1.) Shes a very large ship and if you catch her in a position where his is slow/stationary you can easily hit her to disable her engine, thus crippling her acceleration significantly 

2.) Its not her fire chance alone. Its her rate of fire and good shell ballistics that quickly add up that causes fires and HE damage. 

3.) The fish are extremely situational and are very, VERY rarely used. I think i've used them a grand total of twice 

4.) More often then not she will eat penetrating damage from AP shells. Get her into close range and AP her down if you're in a non soviet DD

5.) She already bleeds a good amount of speed in turns already. She can do from 48.7 down to about 39-ish give or take. I don't run the acceleration modudle so the acceleration is kinda meh. not bad, not great

 

16 minutes ago, SimiaStoicus said:

This thread is like a couple of patches too late. Khaba  ain't nearly as op as before with all the nerfs and buff to German secondary range. 

Never before have i seen something so blatantly wrong. Khab is still extremely strong in her current state. Shes a fast, hard to hit flamethrower. Secondaries? What're those?

[nickalaso123]

As the mighty Jingles once said, it is as if the WG devs have restrained themselves from releasing overpowered Russian ships but that too had a limit and when they came the Khabarovsk it is as if the devs lost it and yelled, "CYKA BLYAT!", and thus the most overpowered ship in the game was born...

[Uber_Ghost]

A good Khab captain is pretty much unstoppable.  Luckily, they seem to be few and far between.  I've run into plenty of Khabs in my short time here.  They either die fairly quickly or become a dominant force that everyone must account for.  The former is far more frequent than the latter.  One is simply a pest, the other is a true monster.          

[Aivris]

[vak_]

> Is it OP? The VMF Khabarovsk

 

Yes.

/thread

[remaimed_user]

No more OP than a Minotaur or a Zhao. [edited] concealment, [edited] rudder, [edited] acceleration. I don't have any problems hitting them, and people don't seem to have any problems hitting me when I'm in one. Learn to lead your shots and use AP on her broadside, or IFHE otherwise. Her guns and her armor are the only things going for it. Her speed can be compensated for.

41 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

 

Khab needs to receive a performance nerf. I say make it have high speed but slow acceleration (think mogami type acceleration) and have it bleed speed very quickly when turning. That alone balances the ship.

 Have you ever played one lately? What do you want, BB performance? How about a button that says "delete Khab". Ship is balanced as is. May have been OP before, but not now.

[DoctorMcDerp]

I think it is pretty safe to say yes.  Any DD that can gun down cruisers solo is blatantly overpowered.  Also, a DD with actual armor?  What is this witchcraft?  And how does something with that much armor do 43 knots?

[Destroyer_Zeka]

5 minutes ago, DoctorMcDerp said:

I think it is pretty safe to say yes.  Any DD that can gun down cruisers solo is blatantly overpowered.  Also, a DD with actual armor?  What is this witchcraft?  And how does something with that much armor do 43 knots?

Any DD can gun down a cruiser. A USN one can gun down a cruiser from smoke, assuming Radar isnt a factor. So can the IJN and the KM. Is that overpowered?

[Psicopro]

The biggest problem I have with the ship is not only is it very strong to OP, but nothing like it ever existed.

 

They made up a fantasy ship with 50mm belt armor that does 46 knots and fires railguns.  It has weaknesses, but the ship's strengths are so good it is unlikely the captain will put her in situations where it's weakness can be exploited if they can help it.  The nerf to torpedos was hysterical.  All of those torp build khabs must of been crying their eyes out - all three of them.  ~.~

 

I honestly though don't know how you could balance it without breaking the platform.  Change the guns, the plating, or the speed and the platform becomes a regular bulky destroyer.  

[DoctorMcDerp]

Just now, FireAndHEspam said:

Any DD can gun down a cruiser. A USN one can gun down a cruiser from smoke, assuming Radar isnt a factor. So can the IJN and the KM. Is that overpowered?

I mean just sailing out into the open and just shooting a cruiser to death, without hiding or anything.  I mean just manfighting a cruiser to death.

[Destroyer_Zeka]

Just now, DoctorMcDerp said:

I mean just sailing out into the open and just shooting a cruiser to death, without hiding or anything.  I mean just manfighting a cruiser to death.

Ever hear of Udaloi? Tashkent? Kiev?

[DoctorMcDerp]

Just now, FireAndHEspam said:

Ever hear of Udaloi? Tashkent? Kiev?

Also pretty broken if you ask me.  If a class of ship's role in the game is mainly to counter another (remember the rock paper scissors thing with BBs killing CAs, DDs killing BBs, and CAs killing DDs, with CVs just sitting back and loosing their planes to any number of AA threats, or just the other CV)  and it still looses, there is something.

[Destroyer_Zeka]

9 minutes ago, DoctorMcDerp said:

Also pretty broken if you ask me.  If a class of ship's role in the game is mainly to counter another (remember the rock paper scissors thing with BBs killing CAs, DDs killing BBs, and CAs killing DDs, with CVs just sitting back and loosing their planes to any number of AA threats, or just the other CV)  and it still looses, there is something.

That is the worst logic I've ever seen. while one class is "supposed' to counter another, there is no set in stone rule for what counters what. there's supposed to be,but theres not. You say DDs are supposed to counter BBs? Then why the hell can a BB pen a DD with one AP shell and take away half its health? You say CAs are supposed to kill DDs but they're to bust getting deleted by BBs. You seem to have this idea of what class is supposed to do what that is blatantly wrong. The reason you think they are broken is either A.) your aim sucks and/or B.) you've never really seen the kind of [edited] that DDs have to put up with. Random BB pens for 10k health gone, engine loss to the very slightest hit, team of campers yelling at them to cap. yea......uh no