Lemming Trains! If it's stupid but it works, it aint stupid!

[Inigo_M0ntoya]

Anything is possible if you just believe!  Even lemming trains!

 

I went ahead and included the link to the replayswows.com website

https://replayswows.com/replay/3270

[MidnightShamalan]

if it's stupid but it works, it's still stupid. but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[CaptainTeddybear]

Lemming trains are a workable concept except that the players that do them are the exact opposite of the aggressive play it takes to make it work.

 

Plus it requires a spawn where the ships farthest away are fast enough to catch up.

[Doomlock]

Stupid can still be stupid, but it can be fun.

 

Rush mid on Two Brothers at the start of a match! 

[VGLance]

When a team all goes in one direction and it works they call it "teamwork."  When it fails, they call it a "lemming train."

 

The real issue is why is there such an insanely large percentage of the player base that cannot recognize how much they rationalize over this topic.

[Hunter_Steel]

21 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Stupid can still be stupid, but it can be fun.

 

Rush mid on Two Brothers at the start of a match! 

I would love to actually make my entire team rush mid in Two Brothers XD

~Hunter

[pikohan]

27 minutes ago, VGLance said:

When a team all goes in one direction and it works they call it "teamwork."  When it fails, they call it a "lemming train."

 

+1

 

I think the main difference is in one scenario the train goes toward the reds/caps and in the other scenario the train goes away from the reds/caps. I'll let the reader decide which is which.

[m373x]

13 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I would love to actually make my entire team rush mid in Two Brothers XD

~Hunter

Same, then torp them from behind. The ultimate prank 

[IronWolfV]

7 minutes ago, pikohan said:

 

+1

 

I think the main difference is in one scenario the train goes toward the reds/caps and in the other scenario the train goes away from the reds/caps. I'll let the reader decide which is which.

Incorrect. A lemming train goes towards 1 objective, if no opposition they take that 1 objective then sit there milling about aimlessly. If there is oppositiin, it's usually 1-3 ships and they just turn and mill about not knowing what to do since they ran into red.

 

That's a lemming train. What you describe is ring around the rosies. Where both teams circle looking for each other along the outskirts of the map while going the same way.

[DOCTOR_CITADEL]

A lemming train could be powerful if they all grouped up together and actually pushed through upon contact with the enemy. Taking advantage of numerical superiority is not without its merits. 

 

Instead, 8 ships in a lemming train let 1-3 enemy ships stop their entire group, instead of pushing through. That's what makes it a lemming train and not a task force. 

 

9/10 times, in randoms, when 80% of the team goes one way, it's going to be a lemming train, and not a push.

Players are too scared to scratch their paint. 

[Rolkatsuki]

A zerg rush is a lemming train that has the victory function

[Viper069]

27 minutes ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

A lemming train could be powerful if they all grouped up together and actually pushed through upon contact with the enemy. Taking advantage of numerical superiority is not without its merits. 

 

Instead, 8 ships in a lemming train let 1-3 enemy ships stop their entire group, instead of pushing through. That's what makes it a lemming train and not a task force. 

 

9/10 times, in randoms, when 80% of the team goes one way, it's going to be a lemming train, and not a push.

Players are too scared to scratch their paint. 

Exactly...

[Wowzery]

My biggest problem with the lemming train is they go to one side and hide, especially at the higher tiers.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

A few common problems with lemming trains, you cannot exploit crossfire flanking, zero scouting, strategic units (carriers) left to the mercy of the enemy team/, relies upon the lead unit in the lemming train to know what they are doing. (Confession, I have been followed by my entire team on many an occasion without a clue, or where I am going.)

[BiggieD61]

Back in World of Tanks heyday, the arguments in game about going Valley in Lakeville were continuous and the same in almost every match.  The fact that a 3 man division from -G- could make a valley rush work ( most times ) was the basis for untold hordes of bad players claiming that it "works".  The fact that they trailed along FAR behind the -G- platoon, doing 1 or 2 shots of damage for a whole match, basically not contributing never entered their minds.  That one experience dutifully embedded itself in their collective psyche and they henceforth went Valley NO MATTER WHAT.

Rushing one side is popular with bad players for the same reason bad players went valley in Lakeville; reduced option decision making.  In the valley in Lakeville, you only had to look in one direction, and try and shoot the turrets that peeked out in a narrow range of field of vision.  It was static, but players didn't have to worry about angling, or side shots, just point ahead and shoot ahead - RODM.  Going in a lemming train offers the same advantages in that you are only looking at an enemy coming from one side of the map, and you are in a group of ships, so there is safety in not being the only target.  That safety is why lemming trains die when they get to the edge of the island that has been giving them cover, they know that the first ship out might get focused, so they all mill about a 1/4 speed, trying to let the other guy go die for the team.  If the train is being conducted by good players, they can be enticed to keep following, or even splitting and going in two directions.  That's when a lemming train can work, but when it's all bad or average players, the other team gets complete map control and can set up to punish the lemmings as they eventually squirm out one at a time.

 

[Kapitan_Wuff]

4 hours ago, VGLance said:

When a team all goes in one direction and it works they call it "teamwork."  When it fails, they call it a "lemming train."

 

The real issue is why is there such an insanely large percentage of the player base that cannot recognize how much they rationalize over this topic.

 

People just love to repeat terms they heard from Youtube, I see it used to blame the teammates still alive and working together after a player yolo'd off alone and died.

[Psicopro]

8 hours ago, Inigo_M0ntoya said:

Anything is possible if you just believe!  Even lemming trains!

 

I went ahead and included the link to the replayswows.com website

https://replayswows.com/replay/3270

If it's stupid but it works, it sometimes means the other side is stupider.

 

Lemming training works in cyclones, otherwise you want two angles of fire to punish those citadels.  Else you are two fleets trading blows, and the side with the better aim wins.  

[DiddleDum]

3 hours ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

A lemming train could be powerful if they all grouped up together and actually pushed through upon contact with the enemy. Taking advantage of numerical superiority is not without its merits. 

 

Instead, 8 ships in a lemming train let 1-3 enemy ships stop their entire group, instead of pushing through. That's what makes it a lemming train and not a task force. 

 

9/10 times, in randoms, when 80% of the team goes one way, it's going to be a lemming train, and not a push.

Players are too scared to scratch their paint. 

I'm usually the 1-3 ship opposition.   Not that I'm against grouping up.   I cover flank when I spawn on the fringes, with a single BB.    The group is heading left.    At this point, I'll hang right, and it'll be "take one for the team" to stall them out, and BB and I will try to keep them at bay.

 

Then, you do surprisingly well against the oncoming force.     Great!   We're tying up these guys and my "train" is gonna steamroll them from the other side.

 

'cept that train never arrives to the station.   It folds after rounding the first corner.

[Montana_Prussian]

5 hours ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I would love to actually make my entire team rush mid in Two Brothers XD

~Hunter

Had an enemy team rush mid yesterday 2 DDs 2CL/CAs and a BB........they were crushed,we won

[Montana_Prussian]

3 hours ago, DOCTOR_CITADEL said:

A lemming train could be powerful if they all grouped up together and actually pushed through upon contact with the enemy. Taking advantage of numerical superiority is not without its merits. 

 

Instead, 8 ships in a lemming train let 1-3 enemy ships stop their entire group, instead of pushing through. That's what makes it a lemming train and not a task force. 

 

9/10 times, in randoms, when 80% of the team goes one way, it's going to be a lemming train, and not a push.

Players are too scared to scratch their paint. 

This^^^^^

[Hunter_Steel]

1 minute ago, Montana_Prussian said:

Had an enemy team rush mid yesterday 2 DDs @ CL/CAs and a BB........they were crushed,we won

It's the stupid fun you can have that's important lol

~Hunter

[Montana_Prussian]

Just now, Hunter_Steel said:

It's the stupid fun you can have that's important lol

~Hunter

It was fun...for my team.

[SeaRaptor]

When an entire team goes in one direction, it is always called a "lemming train".  99 times out of 100 the lemmings move into their corner of the map, then mill about while they get out-capped; this is because they don't realize that if they are aggressive and keep pushing they will utterly smash opposing forces in their vicinity. 

[Soshi_Sone]

8 hours ago, Doomlock said:

Rush mid on Two Brothers at the start of a match! 

 

Sometimes....you just have to do it.

 

Granted, it depends on the MM (CVs in play tend to make an early run bad as surprise is often important).  And type of battle.... Standard.  And the spawn points.  But if all those align properly....sometimes it has a chance.  

[Inigo_M0ntoya]

12 hours ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I would love to actually make my entire team rush mid in Two Brothers XD

~Hunter

That EU vs NA community contributor live stream event a few months ago they did that.  Basically everybody in the battle used a Bismark with secondary build.  The rules were simple, no main guns allowed.  They played one match on two brothers and the entire NA team rushed middle.  The Europeans being stereotypical uptight Europeans didn't agree with plan and refused to have fun.  They still won but they didn't have as much fun as us Muricans and that's the important part of the story.