Graf Zeppelin carrier ideas. Post any you have!

[Jakajan]

I'm very excited about the upcoming German carrier Graf Zeppelin and would like I t to be a success. I had a couple of ideas I would like to share to bring it into a well balanced state.

 

Idea #1 keep the Graf Zeppelin as a dive bombers carrier but give her two types of bombs. HE 500KG and AP Fritz bombs.

 

The AP bombs are rocket guided and could be launched from say 500-800 meters, while the HE bombers have to come closer.

 

She would have two flight deck options. Two fighters, one AP dive bomber, two HE dive bombers.

Or

Three fighters, one AP dive bomber, one HE dive bomber.

 

The second group could have two HE groups two but you get the idea. 

 

I think a three fighter squadron option Zep would allow them to combat Enterprise band Shokaku for those who want to have push a air war, and two dive bomber groups as strong as the ones I have read about will still be effective.

 

Also having two different kinds of dive bombers will prevent a overkill strike. Three HE bomber groups would sink destroyers too quickly. Three groups of AP bombers would shred CA and BB too quickly. Balanced might be worth testing and would be more interesting to operate.

 

Idea #2 is to make it tier 6 with 48 planes and 6km range secondaries, however we all know that will not make as much money.

 

Anyway these are my thoughts. What would you like to see?

 

[Ayanami_Kai]

Rocket guided bombs especially AP...
Such Overkill, Much Wow

[Ulthwey]

Give it a balanced loadout that has fighters, DBs and TBs - make it actually worth the $55 dollar value they plan to charge for it.

[Hyyena]

2-3-0 Too much strong, too much crying

2-0-3 too much rng, too much boring to play

 

Well, the best balance is 2-2-2... like enterprise... but with a good drop.

[WanderingGhost]

Drop it to tier 6 with the historical Bf-109E reclassified to T and slightly bigger wings, and the Ju-87 as both DB and TB, maybe sporting 1,1,2 or 2,1,1. or just mix AP and HE in the groups to mix it up a bit, 1 group AP 2 HE, gives some hitting power against everything. And give it secondaries and HP combined with whatever armour it has that it can engage ships somewhat limited basis, making it truly unique as an almost brawler CV. Given it's one of, if not the only, CV's in game armed with cruiser level firepower, and at what should be 16 guns, a lot of it. Plus the 10.5's. Take advantage of her historically limited numbers yet insane firepower for a CV. Maybe tier 7.

 

At this point,  I'm still not happy really with what they are doing to the ship, and them doing what they are STILL makes me severely question why they did not make some of these changes to a ship like Saipan to balance it at tier 7, with say double the planes and a tier 7 or even 8 aircraft with more than her normal planes, less than double, but still at least a little more fair. This point, if my ID from the newer picture is right that they have change to the Fw-190 instead of the 109, they buffed secondaries and made the Stuka a DB - not just a TB - I'll take that small win at this point even if I still disagree that the Stuka should not be a tier 8 plane, even 7 is pushing it, and they might as well replace it with the GA version of the FW-190 as well (which took over the Stuka's role while trying to develop a replacement). And still not happy at the magic doubling of her numbers just to put her at tier 8 which feels like a cash grab. My only other thing - to hell with "high manual accuracy". Let's forget my usual rant of removing/replacing manual drop in someway - just make the fracking things more accurate normally, like the bloody Saipan.... maybe not exactly that level of accurate, but that general idea. Cause you do that to USN DB's, a bit more accurate, and this and hopefully further down the line a German CV tree when most of the major lines are done, that much more but no TB, hey, you make DB's that much more useful and effective minus issues against AA and oh right, help differentiate the carriers because more accurate DB's are great for DD hunting while able to DoT heavier cruisers and BB's or knock out secondary guns/AA while CV's with more TB's but worse DB's are better at taking on BB's while one in between can kinda do both just not as well as one or the other.

[Jakajan]

My problem with a 2,1,2 is the 1 torpedo squadron would not be very effective, planes not durable enough to survive more than two Torps getting off.

 

Maybe if they were high speed, long range like Kaga. Might be fun is they were long range air dropped Torps. Like 7km long range.

[senseNOTmade]

I think it should be fully equipped with deck-launched V2 rockets. 

[Nanaki]

2-2-2, 60-plane hangar, 3-plane squadrons, but stronger planes, Fighters with more HP, ammo, DPS (basically the exact opposite of what they are now), Torpedo bombers with more HP and more damage per torpedo (as well as a tight spread), Dive bombers with strong, high-damage bombs. Keep the 7.5 km secondaries and make that the primary gimmick of the ship.

 

Of course, that is in a perfect world. If I were to just alter the stats of the current ship, I would give Graf stronger fighters, 2-1-2, and US-like torpedo spread on the torpedo bomber squad.

 

In both cases, the Torpedo bombers would be changed to Fi 167s.

[Xwing_Red1]

2-2-2 flight config would fine for the Graff Zeppelin. Why?

 

Enterprise is venom for German BBs, then Graf Zeppelin should be venom for Murican, British, and Japanese BBs

 

 

[Wombatmetal]

18 hours ago, Jakajan said:

My problem with a 2,1,2 is the 1 torpedo squadron would not be very effective, planes not durable enough to survive more than two Torps getting off.

 

Maybe if they were high speed, long range like Kaga. Might be fun is they were long range air dropped Torps. Like 7km long range.

 

The planes are Stukas, which are slow and easy to shoot down. That's just historical. The Bf 109s were wicked dog fighters with 30mm cannons firing through the hub of their propellers. I think they are getting short changed. But they notoriously had short range. 

 

The guided bomb - oy vey. The Fritz X was 12 feet long and weighed 3,000 pounds, far too big for a Stuka. They were carried in combat by Donier 217s, the flying pencils. Putting a Fritz X on a Stuka would be like putting a 203mm gun on a destroyer.

 

I think a 2-1-2 loadout would work better. Or Tier 6  

[dseehafer]

Stuka's carrying Fritz-Xs?? Hahahahahaha no. Submarines would have been a more realistic request. And since when were Fritz X bombs rocket guided???

 

Sorry, but that is a terrible idea.

[Nanaki]

1 hour ago, Destroyer_Suzukaze said:

 

The planes are Stukas, which are slow and easy to shoot down. That's just historical. The Bf 109s were wicked dog fighters with 30mm cannons firing through the hub of their propellers. I think they are getting short changed. But they notoriously had short range. 

 

The Gs range is good for a single-engine fighter. 850 km and 1,000 km with a drop tank, comparable to the F4F/F6F and superior to British Seafires which typically had only a range of 600 km. The meme of them having short range largely came from the E models (Which only had 660 km range, comparable to the aforementioned British fighters) being used way out of their role as long-range escorts over the British Isles.

 

Not sure where all these Tier 6 suggestions are coming from, as Tier 6 would be ridiculous to put a 33K ton fleet carrier among a bunch of 10K ton light carriers, especially since 60 planes with deck parking is not unrealistic for the Graf Zeppelin, even if we take face value that the Graf Zeppelin could not have held any more planes, even though it had comparable hangar space to the Yorktown class. Tier 7 is a bad tier because its already over saturated with premiums, especially the overpowered Kaga and Saipan.

[OOM911]

From what I can see they are trying to get the carrier closer to the battle in this case. 

 

The 7.5 Km secondary's are a good example of this especially since it has more secondary firepower from any direction then the Bismark and Tirpiz.

 

Personally if they REALLY wanted to push this I would recommend slower bombers with more durability.

And give the ship a lower detectability rate then other carriers it's tier.

 

If they want to go ALL DB I would personally say HE bomb with extra pen but less of a fire chance would work as a good all rounder, especially if they make it accurate.