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Prkl8r

What's up with WG liking to flatten the aft of their made up RN ships?

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Does that bother anybody else? I think it looks dumb.

 

They did it with the Neptune and Minotaur, and now they did it with the Lion and Conqueror.

 

None of the previous ships in either line had an aft that is just flat like that.


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13 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

Does that bother anybody else? I think it looks dumb.

 

They did it with the Neptune and Minotaur, and now they did it with the Lion and Conqueror.

 

None of the previous ships in either line had an aft that is just flat like that.

 

t's called a "transom stern" look that up and stop wasting everyone's time on the forum. 


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10 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

Because the British were switching to transom sterns?

Was just about to say. If it looks stupid but it works, it works.


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Just now, Aetreus said:

It makes ships faster.

 

But they're not painted red


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Just now, Cruiser_Noshiro said:

But they're not painted red

Yes they are, you just can't see it. That makes the ships faster too.


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11 minutes ago, Cruiser_Noshiro said:

 

But they're not painted red

They are red below the waterline.


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1 hour ago, Aetreus said:

It makes ships faster.

I thought the go faster stripes were supposed to do that?


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7 hours ago, Aetreus said:

It makes ships faster.

It makes ships at speed faster and more fuel efficient, but slower with worse fuel efficiency at low speeds. The US versions were much more extreme.

 

 001B.jpg


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Does that mean that they will be faster than 30 knots?


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7 hours ago, The_Cruel_Sea said:

It makes ships at speed faster and more fuel efficient, but slower with worse fuel efficiency at low speeds. The US versions were much more extreme.

 

 001B.jpg

 

I will be stealing that picture. Is that Alaska or Guam?


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15 hours ago, Cruiser_Noshiro said:

 

But they're not painted red

 

They're red on the inside.

 

The USN ships of every type have more dakka though.  


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16 hours ago, The_Cruel_Sea said:

It makes ships at speed faster and more fuel efficient, but slower with worse fuel efficiency at low speeds. The US versions were much more extreme.

 

 001B.jpg

 

Google search the picture for the whole picture series. Alaska.

Edited by The_Cruel_Sea

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6 hours ago, lemekillmister said:

Speaking of dumb, why should anyone be bothered by a transom on a ship?  What's "dumb" about a transom?   

It's an aesthetic thing, I just think it looks weird compared to the rounded stern of american high tier BBs. It's nothing I can't get over though.

 

I honestly just thought WG did it on their high tier RN made up ships just because. I didn't realize Vanguard had it, which is probably what they base them off.


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21 hours ago, Prkl8r said:

Does that bother anybody else? I think it looks dumb.

 

They did it with the Neptune and Minotaur, and now they did it with the Lion and Conqueror.

 

None of the previous ships in either line had an aft that is just flat like that.

 

As ship design advanced over time, it was realized that a transom stern, which is what that flat type of stern on Lion and Conqueror is called, allows for a higher speed without increasing weight or fuel consumption. If you're actually interested in listening, I can give a more in depth explaination - it's a very complex, but I can give you the basics. 

 

It is also of note that at the very least, Lion isn't made up. HMS Vanguard is built on the hull of a Lion Class ship. I don't mean to sound too rude here, but before you rant, do your research.


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1 hour ago, Prkl8r said:

It's an aesthetic thing, I just think it looks weird compared to the rounded stern of american high tier BBs. It's nothing I can't get over though.

 

I honestly just thought WG did it on their high tier RN made up ships just because. I didn't realize Vanguard had it, which is probably what they base them off.

 

Coincidentally, aesthetics are a substantial aspect in my profession which is product/industrial design and from an early age the forms of ship and boat hulls fascinated me and where one of the things that fired interests that lead me to become a designer.  Generally speaking, the aesthetics of transom sterns don't put me off.  If that form serves a function or at least doesn't diminish functionality then that's all the more better. 

Edited by lemekillmister

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On 8/11/2017 at 11:20 PM, Prkl8r said:

Does that bother anybody else? I think it looks dumb.

 

They did it with the Neptune and Minotaur, and now they did it with the Lion and Conqueror.

 

None of the previous ships in either line had an aft that is just flat like that.

Resident Naval Engineer here:

It's not an aesthetic thing, there is an actual engineering reason for this:

A 'flat' stern is known as a Transom stern. In naval engineering it is used to increase the rate at which the turbulent flow (bad) around the ship returns to laminar flow (good). In layman's terms, it means a ship goes faster. That's the primary advantage to it. It's also useful if you intend to use outboard motors (on smaller craft) and also increases LWL which also increases speed. Disadvantages include (but are not limited to) reduced reverse speed, worse (compared to say a cruiser stern (this has nothing to do *cruisers* it's another type of stern, cruiser can have a cruiser stern or a transom)) sea keeping in rough seas.

The reason it is oft included on RN ships is the RN took, post Tsushima, a hard line stance on 'Speed is armor' and this continued in Naval Design for them after WWI and into WWII. As such, as hull-form became a more of a science than an art, the RN started to include Transom sterns on more and more of their ships. But it has nothing to do with appearance. People don't design ships with 'appearance' in mind, that's a fast way to blow performance and money on the most complex and expensive objects on earth.


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The Vanguard is a 1942 Lion that's slightly lengthened to accommodate an extra turret since it uses 4x2 15"/42 guns. The 1942 Lion is a modified version of the original 1938 Lion we have in game, with the main differences being slightly increased beam and TDS width, bow shear to improve seakeeping, and removal of aircraft facilities. Apparently the transom stern allowed some 0.33 knot increase in max speed, but if anyone can explain the hydrodynamics behind that I'd appreciate it, because I don't know why that's the case.

 

Judging from Friedman, I think if they actually went through with the Lion class, the Lion and Temeraire probably would've followed 1938 design, but Conqueror and Thunderer would be 1942 design.

Edited by DeliciousFart

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1 hour ago, DeliciousFart said:

 Apparently the transom stern allowed some 0.33 knot increase in max speed, but if anyone can explain the hydrodynamics behind that I'd appreciate it, because I don't know why that's the case.

 

 

Imagine it like this: a body is present in a stream of moving fluid. First actually, let me emphasize a ship's speed is akin to airspeed, not ground speed. You move relative to the fluid flow around you, NOT relative to actual position on the planet (so if I measured the knots of a ship at sea and compared it to the speed found from a GPS position, it may or may not be equal). So you have this body in a moving flow of fluid, with the body static but the fluid flowing past. When the fluid. Now imagine, ahead of the body, I drop balls into the flow carefully so they don't move laterally during the drop. If I have laminar flow (which for the purposes here we assume is 100% laminar ahead of the body), the balls will float past in a perfectly straight line, with no radial position change. Now when they reach the body, the ones on the outside will continue to flow normally, in the straight line, but some will 'bump' into the body and need to flow around it. At the rear of the body, they need to 'come' back together, so that they can return to that nice smooth laminar, straight line flow. If I have a cruiser stern, that is to say, a smooth curve, this actually makes the process of returning to laminar flow take longer, because I have a 'width' (this is hard to explain in words, it's usually taught with pictures for a reason) of that flow that was 'compressed' (not compressed it's a non compressible fluid obviously, again, hard to explain with words) around the outside of the body that needs to return to its original 'width.' The cruiser stern makes this process take long, which in turn, reduces the amount of fluid flowing past the object, and therefor reduces the speed (remember, air speed, not ground speed). A transom basically allows the the flow to abruptly, once the 'body' is over, to quickly fill in that void behind the object, allowing laminar flow to return far more rapidly and thus increase the speed of the object relative to the fluid.

Now there is actually quite a bit more to it than this, but this is the simplest I can express this with words. There's a physical aspect I call 'cutting' in how a ship moves through water, especially at high speed, that further enhances a transoms ability but suffice to say, YES, a 0.33 knot increase from merely adding a transom, on that long of a ship, sounds 100% reasonable.

Edited by _RC1138

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On 8/11/2017 at 11:20 PM, Prkl8r said:

Does that bother anybody else?

Does it bother anyone else that this guy stayed dead for the year and a half since CBT and only came back to complain about how WG isn't making RN BBs OP?


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1 hour ago, ValkyrWarframe said:

Does it bother anyone else that this guy stayed dead for the year and a half since CBT and only came back to complain about how WG isn't making RN BBs OP?

 

First of all, what does a discussion from another thread have to do with this one?

 

Second, I'm sorry, did I miss some kind of licence or registration fee or something that allows me to post an opinion on a public forum about a video game?

 

Clearly I have offended you by both voicing my, and asking for other peoples, opinions.

 

Now I remember why I stopped visiting this forum in the first place.


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