Should Zao get radar?

[RevBC]

Should get the Zao get radar? See poll.

[DudeWhereIsMyTank]

Yes - when I play it
No - when others play it.

[Lert]

It does need something. It's sitting bottom at winrate over the past two weeks for T10 cruisers, though the damage is still up there.

[Ace_04]

Nope.  Still a very strong ship in the right hands, with some of the most trollish cruiser armor in the game.

[RobertViktor68]

2 minutes ago, Lert said:

It does need something. It's sitting bottom at winrate over the past two weeks for T10 cruisers, though the damage is still up there.

Doesn't something have to be at the bottom?

[FayFay731]

I think the ships that have them already are fine, historically anyways. There aren't really many other viable consumables the Zao could have.

[Lert]

1 minute ago, RobertViktor68 said:

Doesn't something have to be at the bottom?

True. Tell that to the people who want USN cruisers buffed because they're at the bottom though.

The ideal situation would be either one of some fluctuation ("everyone gets some time at the bottom and at the top") or very close, almost even (The T10 cruisers are within a delta of 2% WR which is excellent, but the DPG difference is 15k, which is quite a lot)

[HazeGrayUnderway]

No, no, no.  Zao has guns to easily engage at ranges Des Moines only dreams of.  DM can attain good range and ROF, but those floaty shells make her unreliable at range.  Zao does not need supreme ranged damage dealing to go alongside Radar & Hydro utility.  Utility is the only thing DM is good for.  Even with the ROF DM has she is still one of the bottom feeders in Damage Average.

[RobertViktor68]

4 minutes ago, Lert said:

True. Tell that to the people who want USN cruisers buffed because they're at the bottom though.

The ideal situation would be either one of some fluctuation ("everyone gets some time at the bottom and at the top") or very close, almost even (The T10 cruisers are within a delta of 2% WR which is excellent, but the DPG difference is 15k, which is quite a lot)

need magnifying glass for small print.

[BlazerSparta]

5 minutes ago, Lert said:

(The T10 cruisers are within a delta of 2% WR which is excellent, but the DPG difference is 15k, which is quite a lot)

 

Explainable by difference in target selection.

[SireneRacker]

10 minutes ago, Lert said:

It does need something. It's sitting bottom at winrate over the past two weeks for T10 cruisers, though the damage is still up there.

 

I think there are better options for helping the Zao. Radar has so far been a USN/RN/VMF flavor. I can imagine one of the following:

- increase bow and aft armor to 27mm

- increase mid-section armor to 40mm But wouldn't that be OP? Moskva has 50mm, so it's fine

- Concealment buff

- Range buff

- Speed buff

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Zao does not need help.  She is among the last ships in this game that need help, alongside Belfast.

[Lert]

1 minute ago, SireneRacker said:

- increase bow and aft armor to 27mm

This is the one I would pick. Though with the delta of 2% WR and Zao still pulling almost top of the tier in DPG, even this buff might be too much.

[Sakuzhi]

I see no reason why any Cruiser at T7+ should not be given radar.

 

Now, I would also suggest that they have a shorter ranged radar than either the USN/RU Cruisers. The problem is that you have a bunch of Cruisers that have little to no ability to chase down Tier DDs, when it's 'supposed' to be what they can do.

[SireneRacker]

1 minute ago, Lert said:

This is the one I would pick. Though with the delta of 2% WR and Zao still pulling almost top of the tier in DPG, even this buff might be too much.

 

That's why I avoided to suggest any buffs to her horrible RoF. These suggestions aim to give her some extra charms without increasing her damage output.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

She is already having stupidly high Damage Average.  She does not need DM utility to go alongside her superior stealth.

 

How do people get around seeing one of the strongest ships in the game needs more buffing???

[Bril01]

25 minutes ago, Lert said:

It does need something. It's sitting bottom at winrate over the past two weeks for T10 cruisers, though the damage is still up there.

 

I was surprised by your claim but when I checked warships.today it is 2nd in win rate over the last two weeks and second highest in damage.  The lowest win rate right now in the Hindenburg.

[Big_Spud]

Zao has enough tools to make it a terror against both enemy cruisers and battleships. Its "weakness" (because calling it a weakness is a bit of a stretch) is that it isn't terribly well suited for dealing with destroyers when compared to something like a Des Moines that has somehow managed to get within 10 km of a target without exploding.

 

Keep the ships unique.

[VTAdmiral]

Just give everything radar. People still play high tier destroyers, after all.

[Sakuzhi]

10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

How do people get around seeing one of the strongest ships in the game needs more buffing??

Because it isn't Winning.

 

That said, Giving all Cruisers at T8-10 Radar is likely something that should be looked at. Have it in the same slot as AA/Hydro to force them to pick and choose.

 

Balance it by giving them the 25-30 run time with 7.5km-9km Range to make them worse in tier. Because Hydro is effectively worthless on a Ship that can't travel over 36knots.

 

Quote

Zao has enough tools to make it a terror against both enemy cruisers and battleships. Its "weakness" (because calling it a weakness is a bit of a stretch) is that it isn't terribly well suited for dealing with destroyers when compared to something like a Des Moines that has somehow managed to get within 10 km of a target without exploding.

Just like the Germans, and the French, and the British.

 

basically anything that isn't a chappy or DM isn't good at it. Hince the problem.

[Psicopro]

 

So looking at the below capture of cruisers for the last two weeks, I don't see a large enough discrepancy to start saying that the Zao is not competitive.  It's glaring weakness seems to be plane kills, but that is typical of the Japanese.

 

It has always been a long range fire starter with great gunnery.  How could you buff it for close range combat, or give it access to additional consumables and not just make a mockery of the Hindenburg/Des Moines niches?  The only buff I could see that might make sense would be to give it access to the speed boost consumable, but that also cuts into the French' niche, or extend range of the torps a bit.  I don't really see what the problem is with the ship based on the stats here.

 

High Damage

Good K/D stats.

the best survival rate among all cruisers.

Tied with the Moskva on battery hit rate.

 

It looks like a solid cruiser, honestly they all do.

[Lert]

1 minute ago, Bril01 said:

it is 2nd in win rate over the last two weeks and second highest in damage

?

[Bril01]

1 minute ago, Lert said:

?

 

Yeah, I just looked again and I didn't select the last two weeks.  Thought I did, odd to see the Zao at the bottom of the list for anything.   It was such a beast ship for so long hard to imagine it struggling.

[Sakuzhi]

2 minutes ago, Bril01 said:

 

Yeah, I just looked again and I didn't select the last two weeks.  Thought I did, odd to see the Zao at the bottom of the list for anything.   It was such a beast ship for so long hard to imagine it struggling.

It just can't do what Cruisers need to do anymore. 

 

It can't smoke screen itself, it can't detect Destroyers, it can't really scare off T9+ CVs. 

 

The DM can do 2 of the three, the Minotaur does 2 of 3. As examples.

[Big_Spud]

9 minutes ago, Sakuzhi said:

Because it isn't Winning.

 

That said, Giving all Cruisers at T8-10 Radar is likely something that should be looked at. Have it in the same slot as AA/Hydro to force them to pick and choose.

 

Balance it by giving them the 25-30 run time with 7.5km-9km Range to make them worse in tier. Because Hydro is effectively worthless on a Ship that can't travel over 36knots.

 

Just like the Germans, and the French, and the British.

 

basically anything that isn't a chappy or DM isn't good at it. Hince the problem.

 

I would honestly not like to see further proliferation of radar. It works when a few ships have it and are capable of using it effectively when paired with a skilled hand. Give it to every high tier cruiser and DD's will basically be finished. Can't push a cap if five tier 8/9/10's are just constantly radaring.

 

And I will say this, a twelve gun broadside from a Zao aimed at a DD is three or four times as dangerous as a salvo from a Des Moines. The trajectory is rail-gun like, the fire chance is enormous, and the individual shell damage is much higher. Zao should remain reliant on someone else spotting for it, making it yet another Swiss army-knife of a ship is not the solution.