Help with shoukaku.

[Ducc_ducc]

I just got my shoukaku and free exp'd the stock options but it feels like I'm playing in a hosho but every single battleship is the equivalent to a gneisanau and all the enemy CV captains are seal clubbers, I'm getting around 16 thousand average damage and was just in my fourth T10 game in a row now. What can I do so that I still have planes at the end of the match and don't end up charging the enemy team in desperation? 

[Warped_1]

T8 CVs are still solid contributors but you need to be selective in your targets, hunt them when distracted, and manual drop far out.

[cometguy]

Shokaku is a very good CV, but t8 MM is very different from t7 MM. My suggestion is to be a lot more cautious early in the game until you get used to the AA differential.

[Reymu]

T9-10 BBs and CAs can take AA mod 3, which is 25% more AA DPS.

 

Doing well in T10 as T8 CV is very easy:

1) Scout AA ratings. Memorize stock and upgraded hull AA ratings on all T8-10 BBs and CAs. If rating is bigger than this, you know at least one AA-boost skill or module. Anything without AA boosts is generally a target. Similarly, note any CA/BB/DD that are AA specced so you can avoid them during the match until they're damaged or down

2) Scout during first few minutes. Spotting DDs is the biggest priority so teammates can open up. Also, spot torps for allies.

3) If the T8-10 ships are grouped, just spot. Your teammates, if competent, will nab them, and if useless noobs, die. Lone T8-10 ships are generally your best bet for targets besides DDs.

4) If see AA-spec, spot if you can, otherwise stay away and tell teammates "AA ship this sector."

5) If going for a target, have your TB or DB positioned nearby. The old one-two approach works wonders. Most CAs, if carry DF, will pop DF on DB, so use them, then TB. It helps a lot when you get flood DoT on a CA or BB.

6) Put aside emotions. Game doesn't care if you rage about losing half your flight to that Iowa. Just learn from your mistakes.

 

The only CAs and BBs I fear in Shokaku are Minotaur, DM, Hindenburg, Montana, and Neptune. Fletcher and Gearing can AA spec, but their AA ratings of 41-43 make them easy to ID. Most everything else can be punched hard.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

10 hours ago, Warped_1 said:

T8 CVs are still solid contributors but you need to be selective in your targets, hunt them when distracted, and manual drop far out.

Also tier 8 has a lot of strong AA ships to face so you need to have a list of the most dangerous ones and be alert for ships that are normally ok to hit, but may be deadlier than usual thanks to being fully AA spec.

Like I ran into full AA spec Amagi and while it's a fairly rare to see one of those it did catch my attention.

 

Other thing to look for is lone stragglers wandering around since those tend to be most vulnerable targets for you to hit since they will not have the massive overlapping AA screen that a tight group of ships traveling together have. This is big reason CVs are not popular in Ranked battles is because teams tend to work together more for the most part and stay together so an enemy CV can't pick them off.

Have not gotten to use tier 8 CV yet, but have been bottom tier in my tier 6 and 7 IJN CVs to get a good taste of tier 7-9 AA fire from enemy ships.

[Ducc_ducc]

Thanks for the information. This was very helpful

 

[Ducc_ducc]

I don't even know anymore.

I haven't felt this incompetent in a CV since I was fighting bogues in a zuiho.

The entire enemy team was under the AA protection of a moskva and minotaur, the enemy enterprise was fairly competent, and I ended up just waiting for a ship to break out of their AA bubble while my planes slowly died to the minotaur.

if there's any more advice you guys can give I really need it.

 

[StoneRhino]

It happens and not just to shokaku. It's why I keep saying teamwork > CVS. To many people want to nerf CVS to the true point of uselessness because they choose not to believe it. I'm surprised it took you until t8 to experience it.

[Reymu]

6 hours ago, megadeux said:

I don't even know anymore.

I haven't felt this incompetent in a CV since I was fighting bogues in a zuiho.

The entire enemy team was under the AA protection of a moskva and minotaur, the enemy enterprise was fairly competent, and I ended up just waiting for a ship to break out of their AA bubble while my planes slowly died to the minotaur.

if there's any more advice you guys can give I really need it.

 

Rarely happens, but it can. It's a test of adapting and patience and attacking at right time.

 

AA builds are balanced by the simple fact they cannot move nearly as fast as your planes. Rely on your teammates to weaken or drop them.

 

It's only during cyclone you get the needed buff to handle T10 AA easily, since plane detect is only 2km during cyclone. I've bagged AA Moskvas and Monty and whatnot during a Cyclone and laughed at their raging.

[SaltyMoonshine]

My experience with carriers is only about 224 battles, as of writing this post, with my highest being in the Taiho. (a ship I adore)

 

I'll share with you some tips, tricks and some things I've learned:

 

a) At Tier 8 onwards, learn patience. Gone are the days where you can bare the brunt of a few ships worth of AA to get your strike in. You need to either go after isolated battleships (or a couple of bb's with crap AA ratings), or wait until about 5 minutes into the game to allow the rest of your team to blow AA modules off of enemy ships via HE. In the mean time, use your planes for scouting and protecting your own ships. Don't worry if 8 or so minutes into the game you still haven't made a strike, at higher tiers that's not that bad, because by preserving your planes for when opponent AA has been weakened, you can do much better for yourself in the long run. Remember, each match is a marathon, not a sprint and unlike all other types of ships, your "ammunition" (planes), are limited so don't throw them away needlessly.

 

b) Almost completely contradicting the above point - if you can take a strike within the first 2 minutes, take it. In my Taiho I usually get 2 Torp bombers in the air ASAP and immediately move them to where I think enemy DD's are. 50% of the time I can First Blood an enemy dd within the first couple of minutes this way, which will be an enormous help for my team. However this takes some practice to get right, and you really need to know when to pick your battles in this case because if the enemy CV sends their fighters out first then you're taking a big risk for potentially no gain. 

 

c) The Shokaku is the better introduction to IJN micro-management - you really need to get used to it. This is because the Taiho has 7 squadrons in the air at any one time, and the Hakyryu (sp) has 8. That's a lot to account for. However, it's also your biggest advantage. You can pull little tricks that the Americans can't do. Things like, getting one of your dive bombers to immediately bomb the ocean and send them off to the other side of the map near the enemy CV - 90% of enemy cv's will then divert their fighters to intercept, and spend nearly half the rest of the match trying to catch an empty DB unit with no hope of succeeding; those are enemy fighters that your own fighters and Torp bombers don't have to worry about.

 

d) Send your strike planes where the enemy fighters aren't. This may seem obvious, but it's tricky to pull off as it's a game of deception that even skilled CV captains can't always get working right. The basic premise is to keep your fighters near the enemy fighters in a constant game of cat and mouse. Simultaneously, send your torp/dive bombers to the other side of the map to strike at targets, but do so behind your friendly line so that the enemy CV can't see where your strike planes are. Because they can't see where they are, they'll usually assume one of two things a) they're just out of sight of your fighters because they're sticking close to fighter escort for when the time comes to strike or b) they're coming around the side of the maps to try an ill-fated carrier snipe. I've done this several times and it's given me almost free reign over one half of the map. However, an astute CV player will recognise what you're doing after the first strike and will either vector their fighters away or they'll turn your own tactic against you. So usually it's best to only use this tactic to get an initial fighter-free strike, but don't rely on it beyond that. 

 

e) Learn to strike DD's. DD's have a nasty habit of sneaking around a map in search of CV's. I've lost count of the amount of times I've suddenly gone ! Detected while the rest of the team has sped off towards one half of the map. The good news is that 90% of DD players develop tunnel vision when shooting at CV's, making your task of bombing them with a single torp bomber squadron much, much easier. For those ones who usually maneuver around though, I recommend getting practice in hitting DD's with dive bombers. What, you say, dive bombers?! Yes, Dive Bombers. One squadron at a time. Keeping the trop bombers close (but at farthest AA range) from the DD will usually force the DD players instinct to start maneuvering about the place. So you hit them with one squadron of dive bombers. Usually you'll damage either their engines or their steering, either way forcing a damage repair; after which you hit them with the second dive bomber squadron for more Incapacitations. If you do this right, most DD's by now will either be sailing in a straight line or slowing down, at which point you bring in the torp bombers one by one to either get that strike, or flush the DD into a better position for the second/third torp bomber squadron to nail them. 

Or, if you're so inclined, go the classic cross-drop - this is something IJN CV's excel at thanks to their extra squadrons. This is the more efficient attack method, but it can be difficult to pull off. Worse, experienced DD captains will recognise what you're doing pretty quickly, and will use the rapid engine response of their ship to slow down in time when they see the second torp bomb coming in, ensuring those torps will swim past their nose harmlessly. So go for either-or, whichever is easier for you - just learn, practice and master one method, because you ARE going to get hunted by DD"s, so you need to learn to deal with them.

 

f) Finally (I've ranted long enough), learn to predict where to drop torpedoes in regards to maneuvering ships. At higher tiers (Tier 8+), 90% of players no longer sail in a straight line, especially when there are enemy Torp Bombers nearby; most will immediately start to maneuver. There are some pics around that demonstrate where you should drop when a BB is maneuvering away or towards you. This is crucial, as the more torp hits you get, the more likely the chance of getting a flooding: and as CV captains we should all be salivating at the mouth for the opportunity to catch a BB turning away from our Torp bombers so we can get that lovely 75%+ torp drop hit. 

 

Anyway, I've ranted on for long enough - I do hope you find some of this at least a bit useful. Some will say that what I've said above should be obvious by Tier 7. But I'd argue that they certainly help enormously at Tier 7, but at Tier 8 onwards is when they become magnified and must be adapted to.

 

I've been in your situation before, and I know how much it can really suck. As a CV player you're going to get games where nothing goes your way, or a silly mistake or lack of control resposne costs you enormously by getting strafed or a drop going bad etc You'll also get those games against l33t players who just dominate you in the sky and the sea. The CV is a feast or famine beast, you'll have great games, have terrible games and some okay ones, but it's got a high skill level, demands a lot of multi-tasking and micromanagement, but few ships are as personally rewarding!

[Reymu]

On cross-drop, note that your TB take around 3-4 seconds to make the drop and the DD often goes full throttle. Plan to have the torps arm just as they reach him, and aim the 2 or 3 TB so he has nowhere to turn.

 

It takes practice, but trust me, once you put 2-3 torps in the little jerk, he's less likely to chase you, and if a teammate's around, he'll appreciate it.

 

Crossdrop is also an excellent counter to CAs and BBs trying to manuever, since with a little practice, you can put torps right into their stern and force a repair, then follow up with another TB or DB for extra DoT they cannot repair.