PSA, Cruisers Can Switch Ammo Types

[yashma]

Many high tier cruisers have fantastic AP, even the much vaunted HE spammers such as the Henri and Zao carry devastating AP potential.  It goes with out saying that proper ammo selection can go a long way in improving a cruisers potential damage output, and AP should be used when ever possible.  However, and I never thought I'd ever being saying this, some cruiser captains get way too carried away with the AP.

Over the past few days I've ran into an alarmingly large number of cruisers, Moskva, Des Moines and Hindenburgs in particular, who absolutely refused to switch to HE under any circumstances.  Playing a lot of Des Moines lately, it's not uncommon to get into bow on gun fights with other cruisers, and I've lot count of the number of times I've won the engagement simply because my opponent refused to switch to HE.  Hell, I even ran into a Hindenburg who refused to use HE against my bow on Missouri.  

I fully understand the merits of shooting AP into the super structure, but due to damage saturation this rapidly turns into a game of diminishing returns and at a certain point HE is the better choice against an angled target.  Ammo selection is key, and for cruisers especially it can make a world of difference.

[Royeaux]

/sarcasm And did you also know, cruisers, have engines!  They can move forward and everything!  I tell ya, ya learn something new everyday.

[DoctorMcDerp]

Honestly, seeing cruisers shooting other cruiser's broadsides with HE makes me die a little inside, especially when done at high tiers, when one should now know when and when not to use each shell type.

[IronWolfV]

1 minute ago, DoctorMcDerp said:

Honestly, seeing cruisers shooting other cruiser's broadsides with HE makes me die a little inside, especially when done at high tiers, when one should now know when and when not to use each shell type.

I've done it, but it was more it's what I had loaded in the guns since I had been engaging a DD and didn't want to wait 10-15 seconds to reload.

[DoctorMcDerp]

Just now, IronWolfV said:

I've done it, but it was more it's what I had loaded in the guns since I had been engaging a DD and didn't want to wait 10-15 seconds to reload.

I mean incidents where I've seen a Pensacola dump 3 salvos of HE into the broadside of a Cleveland 7 km away.

[PrairiePlayer]

I have been chased several times in my Zao by Des Moines and Hindenburgs who continue to fire AP at me while I respond with HE.  I win that match-up.

[Doomlock]

I always try to switch to AP in Zaō to shoot broadside targets, especially cruisers, (remembers nuking a Minotaur at close range with a dev strike with AP), but sometimes I just forget.

[Phoenix_jz]

13 minutes ago, DoctorMcDerp said:

I mean incidents where I've seen a Pensacola dump 3 salvos of HE into the broadside of a Cleveland 7 km away.

 

I'm crying on the inside. And American CA... Their AP is great! The HE is meh. I actually use HE as a secondary weapon on Pepsi & Indy, I always have the AP ready first and foremost.

[AJTP89]

Yup, especially with a cruiser, you're fast enough reloading that switching shells shouldn't be a problem.

 

I've seen BBs that only shoot HE. That just kills me. There's even a few threads where people try to support spamming HE in BBs. The worst was in a Ranked battle. Our Scharnhorst had the broadside of a RN CL at close range. He proceeded to dump 3 (not the 1 he had loaded) broadsides of HE into the CL before getting torped. 

 

And yes, I have WASD'ed away from a Des Moines shooting AP at me in my angled BB.

 

But the worst are those Brit CL drivers, I don't think I've ever seen them shoot HE

[AJTP89]

4 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

 

I'm crying on the inside. And American CA... Their AP is great! The HE is meh. I actually use HE as a secondary weapon on Pepsi & Indy, I always have the AP ready first and foremost.

Yup, AP loaded from the get go. Bushwack brain-dead cruisers with ease (and shooting up Kongoes is hilarious).

The people trying to spam HE in the Pepsi are probably half the reason for its terrible reputation.

[Royeaux]

3 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Yup, especially with a cruiser, you're fast enough reloading that switching shells shouldn't be a problem.

 

I've seen BBs that only shoot HE. That just kills me. There's even a few threads where people try to support spamming HE in BBs. The worst was in a Ranked battle. Our Scharnhorst had the broadside of a RN CL at close range. He proceeded to dump 3 (not the 1 he had loaded) broadsides of HE into the CL before getting torped. 

 

And yes, I have WASD'ed away from a Des Moines shooting AP at me in my angled BB.

 

But the worst are those Brit CL drivers, I don't think I've ever seen them shoot HE

 

So what?  I shoot only HE in my Dunkerque and get incredible results, while other ships firing only 14" AP in the bow score zero damage.  So what if people use HE or AP?  HE knocks out engines and rudder, disables torpedo tubes and sets fires, AP, while capable of doing a lot of damage is very hit and miss.  Your not some master race because you fire AP at a broadside target, you could end up overpenning everything and get torpedoed.

[AJTP89]

Just now, Sventex said:

 

So what?  I shoot only HE in my Dunkerque and get incredible results, while other ships firing 14" AP in the bow score zero damage.  So what if people use HE or AP?  HE knocks out engines and rudder, disables torpedo tubes and sets fires, AP, while capable of doing a lot of damage is very hit and miss.  Your not some master race because you fire AP at a broadside target, you could end up overpenning everything and get torpedoed.

You know as well as I do that the Dunkerque is a bit a unique ship. And even then, I would guess that if some bozo took a leander broadside on to you, you'd AP him as fast as you could reload. Also, obviously there are situations in standard BBs where HE is the better choice. However, to continue to fire 11in HE into a broadside RN CL is moronic. One salvo of AP probably would have deleted him (we were toast anyway, but that's beside the point).

 

And I know very well the HE on the Dunkerque is proper choice. I had a game in my CO where someone went bow on in the Dunk, and proceeded to torch me the ENTIRE GAME. everytime I extinguished 2 fires, he had another one. We ended up winning (and I survived), and it was very sweet revenge chasing him down with 16in AP.

[tcbaker777]

9 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

But the worst are those Brit CL drivers, I don't think I've ever seen them shoot HE

[Royeaux]

19 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

You know as well as I do that the Dunkerque is a bit a unique ship. And even then, I would guess that if some bozo took a leander broadside on to you, you'd AP him as fast as you could reload. Also, obviously there are situations in standard BBs where HE is the better choice. However, to continue to fire 11in HE into a broadside RN CL is moronic. One salvo of AP probably would have deleted him (we were toast anyway, but that's beside the point).

 

And I know very well the HE on the Dunkerque is proper choice. I had a game in my CO where someone went bow on in the Dunk, and proceeded to torch me the ENTIRE GAME. everytime I extinguished 2 fires, he had another one. We ended up winning (and I survived), and it was very sweet revenge chasing him down with 16in AP.

No, I would not shoot AP at a broadside cruiser, that is a mistake, the insane penetration of the Dunkerque means if the shells don't catch the citadel, I'm going to only get over pens.  If he was bow on and clearly wont stop being bow on, then yes, I'd fire AP at him, but being able to predict what course an enemy ship will take in 28 seconds is a tricky business, and HE is always the safer bet if a DD suddenly appears.

[IronWolfV]

1 hour ago, DoctorMcDerp said:

I mean incidents where I've seen a Pensacola dump 3 salvos of HE into the broadside of a Cleveland 7 km away.

Yeah that's just plain stupid.

[yashma]

I seriously don't get why so many cruisers do this.  I just had a battle in the Zao where I was knocked down to less than 3k HP by an Iowa at the start of the battle.  I got into a fight with a Hindenburg who refused to use HE, and I actually managed to kill him.  When I asked him why he didn't switch to HE, he told me "the moment I do, you'll just show broadside and I won't have AP loaded".

I guess I can't complain because I went on to have a pretty good battle, but it still pains me to see cruisers firing the wrong ammo type.  

*edit

Of course cruisers shooting HE at broadside targets is equally painful to watch, but I encounter it less often because I don't try and make a habit of showing broadside whenever possible.  

[WaWingsFan_15]

i hit a Iowa for i think 7 cits in one salvo in my DM. I was sitting 1km away from his broadside when i let loose that salvo lol. i do switch back and forth between he and ap when needed. in a bb i will switch to he when there is a bow on bb, i burned down a yammy with he in my montana that was pretty fun. 

[Madwolf05]

I feel bad Cruisering now compared to when the game was just out. AP was so much more useful then, and less people angled so it was really powerful. At higher tiers you basically start with HE and only switch to AP when needed, but so few people ever stay broadside to citadel.

[Lillehuntrix]

I'm becoming a bit of a believer in Expert Loader for anything with a long (>10 sec) reload for precisely these reasons.

[yashma]

1 hour ago, Lillehuntrix said:

I'm becoming a bit of a believer in Expert Loader for anything with a long (>10 sec) reload for precisely these reasons.

I actually run EL on any ship Is feel really benefits from switching back and forth between ammo types, especially my Des Moines and Zao, and I fully plan to run it on my high tier german cruisers once I get to them. 

[Flashtirade]

It kills me inside every time I fire the wrong ammo type in my Indianapolis because I have to start loading the correct shell type before the target even turns.

[Madwolf05]

13 hours ago, yashma said:

I actually run EL on any ship Is feel really benefits from switching back and forth between ammo types, especially my Des Moines and Zao, and I fully plan to run it on my high tier german cruisers once I get to them. 

 

I run it on my Des Moines after finding there to not really be better use of my last point, and found it to be surprisingly useful even on the Des Moines, and even better on my Indianapolis.

 

Being able to shave a few seconds off of a switch to AP from HE is the difference between a broadside target and a angled one.

[yashma]

Just now, Madwolf05 said:

 

I run it on my Des Moines after finding there to not really be better use of my last point, and found it to be surprisingly useful even on the Des Moines, and even better on my Indianapolis.

 

Being able to shave a few seconds off of a switch to AP from HE is the difference between a broadside target and a angled one.

Definitely, I run Stevan Segal so it only takes me about a second to switch ammo types.  It may not seem like much given the Des Moines already has a 4.8 second reload, but the ability to near instantly switch ammo types can really come in handy.  

[SeaRaptor]

Expert Loader is a fantastic skill for cruisers (my Hindenburg loves it, anyway).  Anyone who says differently is simply wrong.

One of the keys to playing cruiser effectively is knowing when to swap ammo types (and when not to). 

[Madwolf05]

1 hour ago, yashma said:

Definitely, I run Stevan Segal so it only takes me about a second to switch ammo types.  It may not seem like much given the Des Moines already has a 4.8 second reload, but the ability to near instantly switch ammo types can really come in handy.  

 

All of you people and your Steven Segal's make me jealous. I missed out on him when I took a break from WoWs. :p