formations?

[mowens]

When studying naval battles, naval history, and so forth,

I noticed that formations are key to fighting at sea.

 

There is of course the line of battle,

 

And there are also formations for screening ships such as destroyers.

 

Will there be a requirement for players to keep their ships in formation?

 

Or will it be one big free-for-all?

[Crag_r]

The game is team based, how your team chooses to move their ships around is completely up to them.

[Ariecho]

Considering that (for example) USN and IJN doctrines around aircraft carriers were total opposite, I doubt it.

 

In the IJN, all other ships were far ahead of the CVs to establish an anti-aircraft/anti-ship picket.  That meant that the CVs had to fight alone, should aircraft get through.  

 

In the USN, while there is still some room around the carriers, they are surrounded by other ships to offer more air defense.

[madogthefirst]

Ariecho, on 15 November 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Considering that (for example) USN and IJN doctrines around aircraft carriers were total opposite, I doubt it.

In the IJN, all other ships were far ahead of the CVs to establish an anti-aircraft/anti-ship picket.  That meant that the CVs had to fight alone, should aircraft get through.  

In the USN, while there is still some room around the carriers, they are surrounded by other ships to offer more air defense.

Both strategies seem interesting, I like the idea of keeping carriers far away from enemy fire but keeping a ship or two nearby would only make some sense.

[_Jeremiah_Gottwald]

I would like us to have tactics and formations. It would be a really cool thing to see.

[Ariecho]

We actually already had a thread on that, burried somewhere.  We all agreed that the most common formation that you will probably see (unfortunately) will be this one.

 

 

 

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

This formation will get you, and your group, killed--quickly.

http://www.navy.mil/...vis00/p22-a.gif

 

This will be my position in WoWs...

[Jracule]

madogthefirst, on 15 November 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

Both strategies seem interesting, I like the idea of keeping carriers far away from enemy fire but keeping a ship or two nearby would only make some sense.

Maybe keep your team split into 2 squadrons. Carriers escorted by light cruisers (Pref the American CLs since they were pretty adept in the AA role)and some destroyers. Then have a vanguard force of Battleships and Heavy Cruisers. Close enough to provide some AA coverage for the CV unit, but seperate enough that should the other team make a surface attack, the BB/CA unit can split off and form a defensive line between the enemy and your Carriers.

[barrypz]

A stable team could lead to building formation tactics.  In WOT, its hard enough just to get one person to team with you.  Also depends on how weapons will be deployed.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Surface Battle Doctrine

 

I had to dig this one up from another thread.  It should be helpful.   :Smile_great:

[Blink309]

I feel it will only be in clan wars that we really see the legitimate tactics used.  That kinda stuff takes teamwork, discipline, and practice.  It will be interesting to see what the clans can put together.

[Capcon]

I have had success lately in WoT saying at the beginning my intentions. "I'll arty guard" "I'll base guard", "Scouting town", "blocking center road", "waiting then arty kill run", etc.

 

Maybe something like that will work if the BB or CV says what they intend to do at the start of the match.

[Ariecho]

Here are some formations that were commonly used during WW2.

• Diamond or circle formation: mainly used for anti-aircraft warfare.  Totally inefficient during anti-surface warfare.

• Front-line formation: used for reconnaissance or anti-submarine warfare.

• Echelon: almost similar to line, but ships keep a side gap between each other rather than being directly behind the ship in front of them.  Also used for reconnaissance or anti-submarine warfare.

• Column: mainly used for anti-surface warfare.

When turning, ships can change formation.

• Ships following the diamond or circle formation respectively change their position while turning.  Formation is maintained but the spot within the formation changes.  For example, when performing a 90 degrees turn to port, the ship at the end of the formation becomes the one at the port side of the formation.  The one on starboard side of the formation becomes the one at the aft position in the formation.

• Ships evolving in front-line formation turn simultaneously and enter a column formation if the turn is 90 degrees or more, or enter an echelon formation if turn is less than 90 degrees.

• Ships evolving in echelon turn one after the other one to keep their formation, but change their spot.  The one that was at the outside spot of the turn is the first one to turns, and becomes the ship with the most inside position within the turn.

• Ships evolving in a column keep their formation if they all turn one after another at the same spot.  They switch to echelon or front-line formation if they all turn at the same time.

I doubt any of that can be implemented unless playing withing a group of people who've been practicing that a lot.

[Capcon]

Since the direction of the enemy is always know a formation with a "facing' makes the most sense to me.

 

An echelon that cuts off a corner, advance along the contacted map edge and proceeds to the enemy base . . . wait are we still playing capture the flag?

[Evetib]

Since WoT was already referenced I figured I could add this. Lately Ive found myself picking a larger friendly tank at start of the battle and continually moving in support of this person. Sometimes I get accused of trying to poach kills but more often then not they are happy to have someone there watching their flank, tracking tanks they are engaging, and generally giving the other team someone else to shoot at.

 

If any of you here have ever driven a T95 then you already know how helpful it can be to have a wingman.

 

I intend on trying to employ the same tactics here, because I love seeing those big guys on my team and if I help keep them alive they have more opportunity to do their thing.

[Ariecho]

Evetib, on 16 November 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Since WoT was already referenced I figured I could add this. Lately Ive found myself picking a larger friendly tank at start of the battle and continually moving in support of this person. Sometimes I get accused of trying to poach kills but more often then not they are happy to have someone there watching their flank, tracking tanks they are engaging, and generally giving the other team someone else to shoot at.

If any of you here have ever driven a T95 then you already know how helpful it can be to have a wingman.

I intend on trying to employ the same tactics here, because I love seeing those big guys on my team and if I help keep them alive they have more opportunity to do their thing.

I play wingman as well to heavy US TDs (T28, T95).

[mowens]

I certainly agree that practice will be needed.

 

And I suppose everybody who plays World of Tanks has been in the position

of being left alone to defend the flag after all the hotheads on the "team" ran off and got themselves killed

 

Reading up on actions like Jutland, one is continually amazed

that there were only one or two collisions among scores of ships,

friend and enemy, running around in twilight, darkness, low visibility and fog.

 

I can only suppose it was because they all drilled and practice to a fare-thee-well first.

 

Perhaps the developers can award extra points for effective formations, or at least mutual support?

[commando2227]

I'm fully expecting to see suicidal charges done frequently with no regard to tactics or formation.I suspect these will only be seen in CW.

[barrypz]

Having trained in surface warfare (bofore I was allowed to move off to submarines) we spent quite a bit of time learining how to plot formation steaming and coordinate movement on a fleet level.  It was much mor ecomplex than I would expect to use in a game.  You can get Dutton's Navigation from the libraryand read up on manuevering boards.

[SG_ONeill]

mowens, on 17 November 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

And I suppose everybody who plays World of Tanks has been in the position
of being left alone to defend the flag after all the hotheads on the "team" ran off and got themselves killed

I've had that happen to me all too often in WoT. I want to run carriers in WoWS but if this happens in that game too, then I might have second thoughts about that. But who knows? Maybe we'll see some semblance of formations, though I'm not holding my breath.  :Smile_sceptic:

[Capcon]

SG_ONeill, on 20 November 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I've had that happen to me all too often in WoT (he refers to no base defense). I want to run carriers in WoWS but if this happens in that game too, then I might have second thoughts about that. But who knows? Maybe we'll see some semblance of formations, though I'm not holding my breath.  :Smile_sceptic:

I think there will very often be gun battles between carriers and opposing DD and Cruisers. The game balance here will be critical. Big ships like fleet carriers just don't sink fast in most cases. and while things will likely move faster in the game a CV should be able to ruin the day of a single DD just from gunfire.

[Ariecho]

I posted a few standard formations here.

[53mils]

It will be interesting to see how this will work out in the pub environment. As many players seem to have little to no desire for discipline or formations, much less teamwork. Thanks for the link to surface battle doctrine btw. Hope lot of people read it as well. and the link to formations  as well. Nice to see some preplay help. Some of us could use all the help we can get. Keep up the great work everybody.

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Here's a tight and functional formation whereby a battle group is configured for rapid deployment.

 

[AlternateRouge]

My role really is that give me a target and i'll pound it... or SOS so that i can support you with arty...