Enterprise - Wikia

[StoptheViolins]

Looking at the Wikia the Enterprise might be better opposite the Kaga if the Enterprise had weaker planes.  Anyone else picking one up in hopes they have T8 coop missions?

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Enterprise

[Spartias]

She won't be a contender for competitive. She doesn't have the versatility. Plus what makes her special is the whole AP bomb thing, and that's eventually going to go to all of the higher'ish tier American CV's. So... she's basically a weaker and less versatile Shokaku.

[renegadestatuz]

I wonder what @TalonV thinks...

[IronWolfV]

4 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

I wonder what @TalonV thinks...

Meh...Still buy her, but not thrilled.

[renegadestatuz]

4 minutes ago, TalonV said:

Meh...Still buy her, but not thrilled.

Same.

[StoneRhino]

1 hour ago, Spartias said:

She won't be a contender for competitive. She doesn't have the versatility. Plus what makes her special is the whole AP bomb thing, and that's eventually going to go to all of the higher'ish tier American CV's. So... she's basically a weaker and less versatile Shokaku.

Better fighters and more of them. With t9 upgrade slot tougher bombers and more of them, higher damage HE and more bombers, higher damage torpedoes and more of them and AP bombs.

Sure sounds like a weaker shokaku to me. Since shokaku only beats enterprise in cycle time, plane speed and a slightly better spread.

Or did you mean balanced against a shokaku?

[Spartias]

1 minute ago, StoneRhino said:

Better fighters and more of them. With t9 upgrade slot tougher bombers and more of them, higher damage HE and more bombers, higher damage torpedoes and more of them and AP bombs.

Sure sounds like a weaker shokaku to me. Since shokaku only beats enterprise in cycle time, plane speed and a slightly better spread.

Or did you mean balanced against a shokaku?

 

No I meant weaker Shokaku in regards to competitive play.

 

In competitive environments you want to do things like dump your dive bomber loads into the water (because then they get stupid fast) and use them to zip around spotting everything with impunity. Enterprise won't have that ability. Plus Shokaku can still do the 3-1-2 loadout, which is far more versatile in a competitive environment.

 

Enterprise will have her place deleting German BB's in randoms... but that's about it. She won't even be all that good at taking out destroyers, which the Shokaku excels at and is one of her go to strong points when uptiered into T10. Don't get me wrong... it's the bloody Enterprise and imma have me one of her! But she's inferior to the Shokaku in regards to this game... in the way that she's been implemented.

[StoneRhino]

She still has HE and better fighters.  She loses slightly in speed but tougher planes all around.  The only real hope a Shokaku has of winning air superiority is the 3-1-2 which sees more competitive play.  But then she loses the better flexibility and cross drops.  Assuming equal skilled players of course.  Which is why I say balanced.  There are trade offs choosing each one instead of Shokaku vs Lexington to which the Shokaku has every advantage.   

 

Edit:

Also this next season of ranked will be the first after the elimination of open water stealth shooting.  Which means spotting only provides a first shot instead.  I have seen a sharp drop off of my spotting damage in CVs because it goes spot, allies fire; Allies now spotted so enemies return fire and are now spotted. 

[Spartias]

17 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

She still has HE and better fighters.  She loses slightly in speed but tougher planes all around.  The only real hope a Shokaku has of winning air superiority is the 3-1-2 which sees more competitive play.  But then she loses the better flexibility and cross drops.  Assuming equal skilled players of course.  Which is why I say balanced.  There are trade offs choosing each one instead of Shokaku vs Lexington to which the Shokaku has every advantage.   

 

Edit:

Also this next season of ranked will be the first after the elimination of open water stealth shooting.  Which means spotting only provides a first shot instead.  I have seen a sharp drop off of my spotting damage in CVs because it goes spot, allies fire; Allies now spotted so enemies return fire and are now spotted. 

 

I'm not saying she's inferior in terms of randoms. She'll be okay for that. 

 

You mention HE bombs. Still has that horrendously massive dive bomber alt circle versus the nice and small one that the Shokaku gets... which is ridiculous based on how actual WWII American CV's made their bread and button from accurate dive bomber attacks.

[StoneRhino]

Her HE drop circle should match Ranger's which while larger than shokaku's is much smaller than Lexington's. But more bombers per drop (only 1 more) that deal more damage with a larger blast circle and better fire chance. I think the fire chance is the same it just feels like the usn bombers start more fires. 

 

Which again are tougher both by per plane hp and larger squadrons.  While being covered by the tougher fighters.

 

The biggest complaint about enterprise so far is facing t10 AA. Which is a non issue for competitive play. 

 

The only real question left is what madness you can do with her odd torpedo drop pattern. I see potential in it but will not know untilI get some games in.

 

I also don't want to be misunderstood. I'm not saying enterprise is flat out replacing shokaku as the best t8 cv. I think they are about equal with fair trade offs.

[The_Big_Red_1]

sad day to see my favorite ship class be destroyed really kills me. but knowing WG they are too dumb to care

[Spartias]

4 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

Her HE drop circle should match Ranger's which while larger than shokaku's is much smaller than Lexington's. But more bombers per drop (only 1 more) that deal more damage with a larger blast circle and better fire chance. I think the fire chance is the same it just feels like the usn bombers start more fires. 

 

Which again are tougher both by per plane hp and larger squadrons.  While being covered by the tougher fighters.

 

The biggest complaint about enterprise so far is facing t10 AA. Which is a non issue for competitive play. 

 

The only real question left is what madness you can do with her odd torpedo drop pattern. I see potential in it but will not know untilI get some games in.

 

I also don't want to be misunderstood. I'm not saying enterprise is flat out replacing shokaku as the best t8 cv. I think they are about equal with fair trade offs.

 

 

No, the biggest issue with her is her lack of versatility. She's a one trick pony. Drop AP bombs. 

 

Her HE bombs are inferior to IJN due to drop circle and inability to accurately and consistently hit destroyers. Once again, you have to focus BB's with these as you're likely to be ineffective against DD's.

 

Her torpedo squads are horrible as they have a flat out stupid drop pattern. Once again, you might as well actively seek out BB's to strike against as the drop pattern makes it extremely easy to dodge with a destroyer... even with a cross drop.

 

She's a one trick pony. That's her issue.

[GrimmeReaper]

What I want to know is the breakdown of the number of each type of plane you will see in the 2-2-2 setup.  Cause I am not seeing a breakdown anywhere of how many of each aircraft in a given configuration.  I I have say 60 fighters and only 36 strike aircraft, I will need to think hard about dropping money on the Enterprise.

[StoneRhino]

Ichase has a release review up already.

 

[StoneRhino]

34 minutes ago, Spartias said:

 

 

No, the biggest issue with her is her lack of versatility. She's a one trick pony. Drop AP bombs. 

 

Her HE bombs are inferior to IJN due to drop circle and inability to accurately and consistently hit destroyers. Once again, you have to focus BB's with these as you're likely to be ineffective against DD's.

 

Her torpedo squads are horrible as they have a flat out stupid drop pattern. Once again, you might as well actively seek out BB's to strike against as the drop pattern makes it extremely easy to dodge with a destroyer... even with a cross drop.

 

She's a one trick pony. That's her issue.

Ranger has no problems with DDs.  She actual did better for me with 6/7 bombers than Hiryu's 10 bombers which has the same bombs as Shokaku.  Enterprise gets 12 of Ranger's HE bombs. 

Also dodging a single 4TB IJN drop is easy in a DD.  So your argument for competitive 3-1-2 play has the same problem. 

Enterprise's drops at steep angles leave huge holes.  No disagreement there.  However I see shallow angles and maybe even parallel drops to be problematic.  With multiple crosses  and one drop filling the holes in the other.  It is something I can only theorize on at this point but fully expect people to be exploiting soon.

"One trick pony".  AP bombs will be fun in randoms for sure but lack the flexibility for a competitive environment.  It might even be plausible in an only t8 meta to run the plane speed upgrade instead of the bomber hp upgrade.   

[Spartias]

3 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

Ranger has no problems with DDs.  She actual did better for me with 6/7 bombers than Hiryu's 10 bombers which has the same bombs as Shokaku.  Enterprise gets 12 of Ranger's HE bombs. 

Also dodging a single 4TB IJN drop is easy in a DD.  So your argument for competitive 3-1-2 play has the same problem. 

Enterprise's drops at steep angles leave huge holes.  No disagreement there.  However I see shallow angles and maybe even parallel drops to be problematic.  With multiple crosses  and one drop filling the holes in the other.  It is something I can only theorize on at this point but fully expect people to be exploiting soon.

"One trick pony".  AP bombs will be fun in randoms for sure but lack the flexibility for a competitive environment.  It might even be plausible in an only t8 meta to run the plane speed upgrade instead of the bomber hp upgrade.   

 

Competitive CV isn't about doing damage. That's why 3-1-2 is superior. Fighters patrol and guard the fleet, looking for incoming torpedo's and scouting caps. DB's patrol on empty in the backfield looking for enemy ships that aren't specifically in smoke. Torpedo squad sits back waiting to fill a hole, or to punish an over extender. My comments regarding Shokaku and DD's were for more of a randoms play. Drop one torpedo squad running with the dd to force its course straight and then use the other in a cross drop... knowing that they're forced to go a single direction. You don't have the luxury of such a strike in competitive environments because that's not your role. In randoms however it can be. The one area where the Enterprise is on par with the Shokaku is in randoms. She's balanced there. However even in randoms she's down a tick just due to how her squads are better suited for BB strikes and not as naturally situated for taking out DD's.

 

Inferior Shokaku.

[StoneRhino]

2 things changed that will effect the competitive meta. First the before mentioned ows firing and second the strafe disengage. The first was a massive nerf to cv spotting in that you are going to be hunting in the back for ships that have gone dark.  Vs allowing your team to safely pick off the backfield. That's not to say that CVS are not still the kings of spotting, just that it's been reduced.  The second has removed the advantage of multiple fighter squadrons. 

 

AS rules competitive play because vision is more reliable than damage.  Also it gives the teams that can limit the other teams vision most the advantage.

 

With tougher upgraded fighters Enterprise can take flight control module 2 and have the fastest fighters too. Combined with the strafe disengage and USN strafes she can bully shokaku's fighters with the reserves to allow her to throw away a few squadrons . Having 118 ammo doesn't hurt either. 

 

Spotting torpedoes can be done be done by dbs close to the front and Enterprise's shotgun blasts are perfect for dropping into smoke or getting ships to move out of position. 

 

[AdmiralMudkip]

1 hour ago, Spartias said:

 

Competitive CV isn't about doing damage. That's why 3-1-2 is superior. Fighters patrol and guard the fleet, looking for incoming torpedo's and scouting caps. DB's patrol on empty in the backfield looking for enemy ships that aren't specifically in smoke. Torpedo squad sits back waiting to fill a hole, or to punish an over extender. My comments regarding Shokaku and DD's were for more of a randoms play. Drop one torpedo squad running with the dd to force its course straight and then use the other in a cross drop... knowing that they're forced to go a single direction. You don't have the luxury of such a strike in competitive environments because that's not your role. In randoms however it can be. The one area where the Enterprise is on par with the Shokaku is in randoms. She's balanced there. However even in randoms she's down a tick just due to how her squads are better suited for BB strikes and not as naturally situated for taking out DD's.

 

Inferior Shokaku.

7

And there is what I hate about the Enterprise. They don't decide to fix the horrible torpedo drops and they don't even give the Enterprise captains the ability to switch between HE and AP bombs when the dive bomber planes are on cooldown. Thus, the Enterprise is in an odd spot. It can be as good as the Shokaku with Tier 7 planes, but it doesn't have the complete versatility to take on cruisers and destroyers.