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Baltimore - Is The Des Moines Really Worth Grinding Through This Ship?

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The Baltimore is the poorest performing T9 cruiser BY FAR.  I'm 20+ games in playing all upgrades and a 16pt captain with a gun range, concealment and radar build.  The Baltimore simply can't deal damage relative to what it receives, and no damage consistently near other T9 cruisers.  With so few carriers there's limited role for AA support, whereas T9-T10 carriers will ruin your day regardless either by spotting you, torping/bombing you, or both, and your dead.  Shoot at a DD and the whole enemy team within range will focus fire on you and you're dead.  Without islands to fire behind BBs pen you from any angle, even from beyond your range, and you're dead.  Face off against another competent T9 cruiser and you're dead.  Sure, I've had the "big games", but those are fewer and farther between vs. other ships I have.  I typically finish consistently in the middle of the team in the Baltimore vs. in the top 1/3 in all other ships.  The Baltimore simply does nothing well, and it has zero tricks or gimmicks (e.g. smoke or torps).  Basically, hide and hope for a target you can shoot from cover and hope you won't get obliterated you when you shoot at it having been seen by a DD/plane you can't see.  I spend much of the game trying to find a shot that won't get me immediately focused on and killed.  The New Orleans actually seems a better ship by comparison, and that's saying something.  I'm just about to the point of stopping the USN cruiser line and focusing instead on the UK line (at T8 now).

Two Questions:

1) Is there any trick (other than hiding and hoping) to make this ship perform better? 

2) Is the Des Moines REALLY worth grinding through the Baltimore?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

Icon Name Nation Battles WR ▼ Dmg XP K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ Srv MBH TH
    FranceGermanyJapanPolandUKUSAUSSR  
PFSC109.png Saint-Louis france.svg France 23,066 53.28% 63,538 1,544 1.4 0.8 1.6 40% 33% 6%
PBSC109.png Neptune uk.svg UK 287,954 51.80% 53,190 1,468 1.3 0.9 2.5 33% 30% 5%
PRSC109.png Dmitri Donskoi ussr.svg USSR 272,779 51.69% 54,230 1,404 1.2 0.7 1.5 40% 32% 6%
PGSC109.png Roon germany.svg Germany 503,240 50.58% 48,074 1,343 1.2 0.7 1.4 40% 31% 8%
PJSC012.png Ibuki japan_wows.svg Japan 543,004 50.06% 47,979 1,308 1.2 0.7 1.5 41% 29% 4%
PASC017.png Baltimore usa.svg USA 678,687 48.95% 36,000 1,284 0.9 0.6 2.4 34% 31% 0%
Edited by nhf

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If you do not like the playstyle, no. Baltimore is great. It is worth the grind on it's own merit, and not what's above it. It's not for everyone though.


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You should use 2wk stats, as it gives a better indication of ship performance.
Baltimore's avg. dmg. is 41k right now. It's still in last place, but it is winning slightly more than Ibuki.

Personally, I thought Baltimore was okay. I enjoyed Baltimore more than Ibuki, because of how strong it was in helping contest caps.

As for Des Moines... It is an excellent ship in divisions, but quite awful for solo play


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Once you get past the stock grind, she's a quite nice ship


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Actually I am grinding towards the Baltimore, I have no interest whatsoever in getting the Des Moines. She looks good (that's important for me), seems to be overall solid and has radar. I think I can like her once I am through New Orleans.


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Baltimore upgraded is a very capable ship (and arguably one of the best looking designs of all cruisers).

It is not easy to play and not for everyone.

Des Moines is a dream and am glad I have it (tough you can get deleted by very fast if you are not careful). That said, I repurchased Baltimore and New Orleans during the last sale to have them back and play every so often. Both are now decent ships.


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I'm in the same spot really.  Baltimore has been the worst cruiser grind I've experienced since... I guess the original stock Karlsruhe?  Like I enjoy the Pensacola and New Orleans, but I cannot get Baltimore to work at all.  I can't expose myself ever(my most recent match had me get instantly one-salvo-killed by a Bismarck at 19km in the first 4 minutes of the match despite taking evasive action as soon as I was spotted by a plane,) but I don't have the small size and maneuverability of NOLA to beat on destroyers either.  I've tried stealth build and long-range fire-starting build and neither has seen much any success.

 

I've managed to make every grind work before, including things like the old stock Fuso with the 12km gun range.  This is the first time I've encountered something so frustratingly helpless in battle.


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The Baltimore seems better at fighting at closer ranges, in large part due to its slow floaty shells.  Is this risky?  Yes, it is.  You have to be super careful about positioning and angling, and using terrain to maximum effect, whether as a means of hiding your approach to closer range, or to stealth fire over, if possible.  It can be a great support brawler if you go in with a big brawling battleship that you let draw the bulk of the fire.

And the good thing to learning this play style is that it's a highly effective play style for the Des Moines, which shares some of the same issues with the Baltimore.  Both have slow floaty shells, but make great short range brawlers with their good HE and excellent AP rounds.


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Get it completely upgrade before you judge the thing.  I liked it.


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Prophet, I absolutely think that the Des Moines is worth it.  The thing is a total beast if you learn how to play it.  Even facing a Minotaur isn't all that scary, as long as you have a radar ready.  Catch a smoked up Minotaur inside your radar range, and you can blast it out of the water in a heart beat with your excellent AP, particularly if you have its broadside.  If you don't have its broadside, you may want to use HE, but you'll still hammer it bad.

 

 

 

 


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Its not for everyone.. I have the DM and is amazing, 4.8 reload time, radar, and good concealment, hope you can get the balti playstyle soon.. It really worth the grind. :cap_cool:


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Don't judge Baltimore from her overall stats.  She used to be a very poor T9 cruiser, but has recently received significant buffs to increase her performance.

 

Gauge her stats on the past 2-4 weeks and you should have a clearer indication of where she stands.

 

Honestly though, I do feel she is a very misunderstood ship by many.  She's probably the tankiest T9 cruiser, and her super-heavy AP shells are amazing.  With her increased rate of fire and radar, she is a great DD support ship.  It's just a shame that most of the time it seems she's at the back lines spamming HE with the other long range cruisers, which is not where she belongs.


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It's a pretty big transition from the New Orleans, but once it's upgraded the Baltimore is a decent T9.  All the T9 CA are a little on the weak side I think, but the Baltimore post buff is far from the worst of the lot.  Patch day in the Baltimore for me was like a dream, it was something like a 14-1 run.  People give it a little more respect now, as they should.

 

On the other hand, once you have the Des Moines I don't see much reason to keep the Baltimore.  It's solid, the Des Moines is a crazy face wrecking fool.  The only downside is thin deck armor overmatched by 16" shells makes it prone to taking serious damage when targeted by BBs, no matter how you angle.  The bright side is, inside about 8km it wrecks nearly everything.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

In terms of play style, DM is very close to how Baltimore is utilized.  If you didn't like Baltimore's style of play then you won't like DM.  Between the 2 ships there's 2 big differences:

DM's faster reload

Baltimore being tougher than DM

DM's worse concealment than Baltimore

 

Outside of DM's fast reloading 8" guns, they behave very close to each other.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

In terms of play style, DM is very close to how Baltimore is utilized.  If you didn't like Baltimore's style of play then you won't like DM.  Between the 2 ships there's 2 big differences:

DM's faster reload

Baltimore being tougher than DM

DM's worse concealment than Baltimore

 

Outside of DM's fast reloading 8" guns, they behave very close to each other.

 

The RoF is the main difference, but it's twice the shells.  That's a huge change in the gameplay.

 

In a DM you can smash a BB at close range with AP, a Baltimore... it's possible but they have to be at half the health to pull that off.  Twice the number of shells in a radar.  It's a pretty big difference.

 

That's like, imagine you have a Montana with 15 second reload after a 30 second reload Iowa.   The AA goes up considerably too, Baltimore AA is good, Des Moines AA is trolltastic.


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1 hour ago, Grizley said:

 

The RoF is the main difference, but it's twice the shells.  That's a huge change in the gameplay.

 

In a DM you can smash a BB at close range with AP, a Baltimore... it's possible but they have to be at half the health to pull that off.  Twice the number of shells in a radar.  It's a pretty big difference.

 

That's like, imagine you have a Montana with 15 second reload after a 30 second reload Iowa.   The AA goes up considerably too, Baltimore AA is good, Des Moines AA is trolltastic.

Like I said, the fast reload is the difference but how you use the 2 ships is still the same.  If one didn't like Baltimore, they're not going to like DM and the fast guns won't change that.


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Today I had my 2nd ride with Des Moines (the 1st took 2 minutes till they send me to the bottom-of-the-sea). It was nice this second ride although is too soon to know if i was only lucky vs a Potato team.

But truth is that after some horrible games with Baltimore, I made changes in the way I played and also in the ship's setup accordingly.  --> https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/129473-i-stay-with-baltimore/

 

 

2017-07-03.png


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On 6/30/2017 at 2:13 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Like I said, the fast reload is the difference but how you use the 2 ships is still the same.  If one didn't like Baltimore, they're not going to like DM and the fast guns won't change that.

 

How you use the two ships isn't the same though.  Just a quick example.

 

In a Baltimore you're behind an island against a half health Kurfurst at 6km, you can try to get angles to try to lob shells into his super structure but if you go around the island you won't be able to do enough damage to kill him before his secondaries or main guns kill you.

 

In a DM you can cruise around the island, ideally coming up behind him and pumping point blank SHS into his citadel.  He won't have time to get his guns around on you before he's dead.

 

Yes, they have a somewhat similar play style in that they have similar shells and they're both about as fat and slow as USN CA get.  But, the Baltimore is tankier for its tier and doesn't have facesmash DPS at point blank range.  The Des Moines is fragile for a T10, but will beat literally anything at close range.  The only defense against a Des Moines is torping it before it kills you.

 

On average in a Des Moines I can kill a T10 cruiser that is showing a little side in ~11 seconds, I've done in without a detonation in 6.  Against a BB you're doing 8-15k volleys every 5.5 seconds base, even faster if you have adreneline rush.  The Des Moines wrecks things at short range, absolutely smashes them and that's its primary defense.  Batimore can't do that.  It can't afford to charge down another cruiser let along a battleship in the same way a Des Moines can.  It will take twice the damage.


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On 6/29/2017 at 7:49 AM, nhf said:

The Baltimore is the poorest performing T9 cruiser BY FAR.  I'm 20+ games in playing all upgrades and a 16pt captain with a gun range, concealment and radar build.  The Baltimore simply can't deal damage relative to what it receives, and no damage consistently near other T9 cruisers.  With so few carriers there's limited role for AA support, whereas T9-T10 carriers will ruin your day regardless either by spotting you, torping/bombing you, or both, and your dead.  Shoot at a DD and the whole enemy team within range will focus fire on you and you're dead.  Without islands to fire behind BBs pen you from any angle, even from beyond your range, and you're dead.  Face off against another competent T9 cruiser and you're dead.  Sure, I've had the "big games", but those are fewer and farther between vs. other ships I have.  I typically finish consistently in the middle of the team in the Baltimore vs. in the top 1/3 in all other ships.  The Baltimore simply does nothing well, and it has zero tricks or gimmicks (e.g. smoke or torps).  Basically, hide and hope for a target you can shoot from cover and hope you won't get obliterated you when you shoot at it having been seen by a DD/plane you can't see.  I spend much of the game trying to find a shot that won't get me immediately focused on and killed.  The New Orleans actually seems a better ship by comparison, and that's saying something.  I'm just about to the point of stopping the USN cruiser line and focusing instead on the UK line (at T8 now).

Two Questions:

1) Is there any trick (other than hiding and hoping) to make this ship perform better? 

2) Is the Des Moines REALLY worth grinding through the Baltimore?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

Icon Name Nation Battles WR ▼ Dmg XP K/D Sh☠ Pl☠ Srv MBH TH
    FranceGermanyJapanPolandUKUSAUSSR  
PFSC109.png Saint-Louis france.svg France 23,066 53.28% 63,538 1,544 1.4 0.8 1.6 40% 33% 6%
PBSC109.png Neptune uk.svg UK 287,954 51.80% 53,190 1,468 1.3 0.9 2.5 33% 30% 5%
PRSC109.png Dmitri Donskoi ussr.svg USSR 272,779 51.69% 54,230 1,404 1.2 0.7 1.5 40% 32% 6%
PGSC109.png Roon germany.svg Germany 503,240 50.58% 48,074 1,343 1.2 0.7 1.4 40% 31% 8%
PJSC012.png Ibuki japan_wows.svg Japan 543,004 50.06% 47,979 1,308 1.2 0.7 1.5 41% 29% 4%
PASC017.png Baltimore usa.svg USA 678,687 48.95% 36,000 1,284 0.9 0.6 2.4 34% 31% 0%

Des is totaly worth it. The reload, the power of the ap and he. I have deleted yamato by my self.  With reload you get 15.8 range which is not a big deal, I have gone bow on many times with trips, bis, minators, and others and crush them with my ap.  Totaly worth it.  At t10 you should get the prem camo because it turns the ship into a money maker.  GO FOR IT.


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On 6/29/2017 at 9:25 AM, Lindemann_ said:

Its not for everyone.. I have the DM and is amazing, 4.8 reload time, radar, and good concealment, hope you can get the balti playstyle soon.. It really worth the grind. :cap_cool:

You must be running the reload mod. I was running reload the tryed the range. The range is great now but i feel the lower reload big time. Most matches seem to be under 15 anyway so i think i will switch back when i can aford it. I know there is no bad choice but have you tryed the range mod?


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23 hours ago, jags_domain said:

You must be running the reload mod. I was running reload the tryed the range. The range is great now but i feel the lower reload big time. Most matches seem to be under 15 anyway so i think i will switch back when i can aford it. I know there is no bad choice but have you tryed the range mod?

You already need to run the reload mod, and full cammo way, playing trough islands and support 


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On 6/29/2017 at 4:49 AM, nhf said:

The Baltimore is the poorest performing T9 cruiser BY FAR.  I'm 20+ games in playing all upgrades and a 16pt captain with a gun range, concealment and radar build.  The Baltimore simply can't deal damage relative to what it receives, and no damage consistently near other T9 cruisers.  With so few carriers there's limited role for AA support, whereas T9-T10 carriers will ruin your day regardless either by spotting you, torping/bombing you, or both, and your dead.  Shoot at a DD and the whole enemy team within range will focus fire on you and you're dead.  Without islands to fire behind BBs pen you from any angle, even from beyond your range, and you're dead. 

 

Your comments do not come across as being from someone who has actually played the Baltimore.   Instead of posting general Warships Today numbers, could you instead post your own results playing the ship?  Or better yet, post a comparision of your Baltimore numbers next to the other T9 cruisers that you play.   That would be much more relevant data to look at.

The best playstyle for cruisers in general is to fire from behind islands, as doing that will prevent you from being spotted.   And the Baltimore's shells do a great job at shooting over islands.   Criticizing the best strategy for using cruisers makes no sense at all to me.  And saying that BB's will do damage to you is a rather ridiculous thing to say.   Any cruiser is going to suffer big time when shot by a BB.   Making such a statement makes me doubt how much experience you really have in playing this game.  Do you actually think that other Tier 9 cruisers can tank BB gunfire?

If you are finding yourself being focused fired in any ship, that is indicative of poor play by yourself, and nothing else.   Ships get focus fired when they overextend or get isolated.  So that would mean that you messed up tactically in positioning yourself on the battlefield.   The only fault would thus be your own, and not blaming the ship for being focus fired, like you are doing here.

 

And as far as the Warships Today numbers go, people need to take other factors into consideration, other than just the raw numbers.   You will note that the best performing ships are the newer ones in the game.   A lof ot that has to do with the fact that in order for people to have reached these newer high Tier ships, they have to be more superior and dedicated players.   The Baltimore has been out since the game was first introduced.   So even the least talented and most mediocre of players would have had plenty of time to grind to her by now.    The ship performance numbers are thus greatly skewed by this factor.

 

So the numbers actually reflect player talent, more than anything else.   if you are not doing well in the Baltimore, then you need to take a hard look at how you are playing her, and not put any blame for your failure on the ship.  Doing that is simply making the ship a convenient scapegoat.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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