DD & Scenarios - what are they good for?

[Mahrs]

First, I am late to the Scenario game - here for the free 10 point Captains, and all that, I missed the first two weeks or so.  It could be that, somewhere in there, DDs were THE bomb. 

 

Anyhow, the question is in the title: what are DD good for in scenarios?  Where have you seen success?  What's the key to maximizing their strengths against bots?

 

To be honest, they seem a lot like dead weight for this week's and last week's scenario.  The optimal setup seems to be a "good" Ryujo, 2-3 BB (ideally Fuso, Dunkerque for power and speed), 2-3 high RoF/DPM cruisers (Budy, Cleveland).  DDs appear to struggle because their gun power is poor, and the bots are unfailing aggressive - they don't care about torpedoes (and do some sick beats), and they usually close enough to hit the DD reliably...and that tiny HP pool just doesn't get the job done.  

 

What say you all?

[RipNuN2]

Depends on the scenario in particular which class is helpful. DD's played well as teamplayers can provide excellent smoke coverage and quickly move around the field.

[Mesrith]

We've 5-starred it every week without destroyers.  These operations are about maximizing DPM and having good range to engage newly-spawned targets; destroyers are bad at both.  I'm not convinced that the utility of smoke is enough to justify the probable damage loss from bringing one less cruiser or battleship.  The charging AI gets focus-fired down fast enough that torpedoes usually aren't relevant, and a decent carrier will do all the spotting that is needed.

 

Players can obviously complete these scenarios with pretty much any ship and some coordination, but destroyers aren't optimal for them.

[Mahrs]

That is my assessment as well - every time I see a DD I think "darn, that could have been a Cleveland." Heaven forbid you miss out on a quality CV to take a DD...

[Taylor3006]

DD's were hard choices for Newport and the one where you had to sail into the base and destroy installations (Aegis maybe?). For the current scenario a DD would be fine, lots of places to hide, teammates to smoke up and stuff to spot. The map is fairly open with nice little islands to hide behind and ambush the bad guys. Definitely worth taking into the battle if you are used to fighting bots with a DD. It looks like the bots are back to prioritizing shooting at destroyers over all other ships though so be warned. If you get spotted, it will look like steel rain....

[Raptor_alcor]

It purely depends on the scenario. Last week they weren't bad because they were rather swift and were capable of shredding the shore instilations with a single HE broadside. 

[GhostSwordsman]

3 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

DD's were hard choices for Newport and the one where you had to sail into the base and destroy installations (Aegis maybe?). For the current scenario a DD would be fine, lots of places to hide, teammates to smoke up and stuff to spot. The map is fairly open with nice little islands to hide behind and ambush the bad guys. Definitely worth taking into the battle if you are used to fighting bots with a DD. It looks like the bots are back to prioritizing shooting at destroyers over all other ships though so be warned. If you get spotted, it will look like steel rain....

That was last weeks operation, Killer Whale.

And I disagree. A Farragut was the perfect little boat to get into the harbor and kill off the destroyer, battleships, and Hosho. Then it could rain terror down on the installations as most couldn't survive a 5 gun HE broadside from a Farragut. While the rest of the team spent time working on the Forts and the Cimarron's trying to escape, all while not getting too deep into the harbor. The DDs have the speed to be able to get in and get out much better than the larger ships.

[_WaveRider_]

Personally I used the Farragut for the current Raptor mission and it works very well. I tended to use the Leander for the other missions. All captains collected (however, I'm still a little miffed at just how ugly my USN captain reward is - not cool pirate ugly - just Fugly!). 

[MrDeaf]

2 hours ago, Mesrith said:

We've 5-starred it every week without destroyers.  These operations are about maximizing DPM and having good range to engage newly-spawned targets; destroyers are bad at both.  I'm not convinced that the utility of smoke is enough to justify the probable damage loss from bringing one less cruiser or battleship.  The charging AI gets focus-fired down fast enough that torpedoes usually aren't relevant, and a decent carrier will do all the spotting that is needed.

 

Players can obviously complete these scenarios with pretty much any ship and some coordination, but destroyers aren't optimal for them.

This is how Raptor worked for me too.

The Smoke on Farragut is really only there for when you get an incompetent team that doesn't understand how to prioritize and focus targets.

[legoboy0401]

13 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

This is how Raptor worked for me too.

The Smoke on Farragut is really only there for when you get an incompetent team that doesn't understand how to prioritize and focus targets.

There is a point in The Rescue of Aircraft Carrier Raptor that you really need smoke to cover Raptor when her hastily patched-up engines falter for a minute or two.

 

It's important, especially when you've lost most of your team at that point. It protects Raptor from DDs(because reasons) and CVs.

[Eyeless_Camper]

In my eyes the DDs do their best work in operations when having previously learned the spawn location of enemy ships, like last week.

If you took a DD or Cruiser with good torpedoes up to the north exit in the start of the mission you could ambush the enemy reinforcment cruisers and BBs as they spawned, torping them as they spawn.

Thus keeping the way clear for the team as they have to make a hasty exit.

 

Or this weeks mission in which i ran up to the north west corner in which the large enemy fleet engaging you near the end spawn, i put up a wall of torps as they spawned in and crippled most of the enemy fleet before they could even think of engaging Raptor or our team.

 

Learn where the enemy ships spawn and ambush them, you will most likely die doing so but you will severely cripple their ability to engage your friends.

[MrDeaf]

1 hour ago, legoboy0401 said:

There is a point in The Rescue of Aircraft Carrier Raptor that you really need smoke to cover Raptor when her hastily patched-up engines falter for a minute or two.

 

It's important, especially when you've lost most of your team at that point. It protects Raptor from DDs(because reasons) and CVs.

not really? Raptor hides behind the island while that happens and takes no damage, aside from bombers that get through.

And, like I said, this only happens because your team was incompetent at prioritizing, focusing down targets and staying alive. (surprisingly common)

If you have a competent team, this is useless.

[legoboy0401]

38 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

not really? Raptor hides behind the island while that happens and takes no damage, aside from bombers that get through.

And, like I said, this only happens because your team was incompetent at prioritizing, focusing down targets and staying alive. (surprisingly common)

If you have a competent team, this is useless.

There are a LOT of planes that make it through for one final drop after the bot CVs die. Besides, if you DO have a potato team(it happens) the enemy DDs will likely still be alive. They were part of the reason we didn't get all five secondary missions done, as one of them killed one of the support ships.

[MrDeaf]

3 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

There are a LOT of planes that make it through for one final drop after the bot CVs die. Besides, if you DO have a potato team(it happens) the enemy DDs will likely still be alive. They were part of the reason we didn't get all five secondary missions done, as one of them killed one of the support ships.

yeah, that's what I said.

Competent teams do not require smoke
Incompetent teams do require smoke

[legoboy0401]

1 minute ago, MrDeaf said:

yeah, that's what I said.

Competent teams do not require smoke
Incompetent teams do require smoke

Uh-huh. Remind me again which type of team tends to be more common around here?

[MrDeaf]

10 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

Uh-huh. Remind me again which type of team tends to be more common around here?

remind me again which team is likely to get 5 stars?

[legoboy0401]

17 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

remind me again which team is likely to get 5 stars?

The good ones, yes.

 

But, you will still get something out of what would've otherwise been a defeat when you bring a DD with smoke. It's a carrying tool, MrDeaf. By it's very definition you hope that you don't need it, but if you do need it, it's of course much better to have something you don't need than to not have something you do need.

 

That's all.

 

It's more a issue of taste, however. I think that Farragut's not bad at this operation, you think she is(actually, you think her more pointless). Can we agree to disagree?

[MrDeaf]

45 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

The good ones, yes.

 

But, you will still get something out of what would've otherwise been a defeat when you bring a DD with smoke. It's a carrying tool, MrDeaf. By it's very definition you hope that you don't need it, but if you do need it, it's of course much better to have something you don't need than to not have something you do need.

 

That's all.

 

It's more a issue of taste, however. I think that Farragut's not bad at this operation, you think she is(actually, you think her more pointless). Can we agree to disagree?

Farragut is the most useful DD for Raptor.

I think it is less useful than Perth, however.

My top picks for Raptor are

• BB: Warspite, Dunkerque, Bayern
• CL: any of the T6
• DD: Farragut

[Cooper_Capt]

Destroyers are good for smoking, spotting, and dealing damage in operations.     

 

Newport, would not take a DD, no need for spotting as the surveillance stations provide that.  

Aegis, can use, but need to be careful and stay near a cruiser.   Provide smoke cover for fleet to escape.  

Killer Whale, a DD is great here, with the docked Kaiser, CV and support ships.  

Raptor, a DD is especially needed here to repel the enemy DDs.   Also useful for spotting if no CV on team.  

 

Dead Weight?   Really?    What is the detection range of your Cleveland or Budy?